Should people have a right to sleep on city streets?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by chris155au, Aug 24, 2019.

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Should people have a right to sleep on city streets?

  1. Yes

    16 vote(s)
    28.6%
  2. No

    40 vote(s)
    71.4%
  1. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Stronger deterrents IS helping. Anything else is virtue signalling and/or making homelessness more attractive.

    Not sure why you keep mentioning 'Republicans'. You have an issue with that, it seems.
     
  2. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    1) Yes, in the First World, every couple considering a family has the option to plan for and provide those things for their future children, and their childrens' futures. All it takes is determination and self-sacrifice. Even the poorest First World family can do it, if they're determined. You cannot argue this. It's a matter of choices. Want to prevent homelessness? Don't raise kids who'll end up homeless. And IF by some freak event homelessness threatens and they're not an addict, don't be a selfish asswhole - give them a bed to sleep in.

    2) Go ahead, offer a job to every homeless person in San Francisco. Let me know how you get on. Seriously .. are you this naive?
     
  3. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    1) It's not about living off the land. ALL mammals (including us) can live off the land. This is about not factoring in a fundamental aspect of our animal nature - that we take the path of least resistance. But to be clear, I don't for a moment think do-gooders don't understand it .. they can't be that stupid. I believe it's ignored because addressing it means doing the much harder work of prevention.

    2) If you think making homelessness easier is solving homelessness, then we are operating in different universes - with different laws of physics.
     
  4. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Mandatory drug testing.

    By 'relatives' I mean family.
     
  5. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    1) Are any of your kids homeless? My guess is no. And why do you think that is? Is it because you didn't make it easy for them to drop out and/or choose drugs? Is it because you instilled in them responsibility and a work ethic .. by NOT making everything easy for them? By NOT thinking it was 'cruel' to refuse them the things they want (but didn't earn)?

    2) They are not going to 'contact social workers' for any reason other than potential free stuff. If you worked amongst the homeless, you must surely know that it's unwise listen to their words while ignoring their actions. They can SAY they want jobs, and want to stop using, and want to live indoors etc all they like - but their actions tell us little of it is true. They're just like children - who make mistakes then protest the consequences.

    3) You're going to have to do better. I was born to poverty. My grandparents didn't have an indoor toilet, or hot water in the house. My husband was born in the Third World. I've lived in the Third World. Not only that, but I have years of professional exposure to addiction and other failures of the human psyche.
     
  6. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Again with your weird political issues!

    1) No one is victimising the homeless. The homeless do that to themselves. But if anyone IS victimising them, it's those who enable them.

    2) You have a dud mirror. The only 'screwed up' response to homelessness is enabling. It's disgusting, actually.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
  7. Gary/Dubya

    Gary/Dubya Well-Known Member

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    Does it take a brain to figure out, you can't always deter homelessness.

    It may not be the right-wing way, but intelligent people investigate ways to solve problems. Right-wingers instantly pick some harsh solution that won't work, but they don't live in those cities with problems. It's just something used to abuse others.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
  8. Belch

    Belch Well-Known Member

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    You've obviously never been homeless, or you'd know that most of what they get comes from the church. It's because of christians that places like St. Vincent de Paul and the salvation army exist. Go down and ask the homeless where you can get something to eat, and they'll point you to a church.
     
  9. Gary/Dubya

    Gary/Dubya Well-Known Member

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    Many people nowadays have to move to other areas away from their families. Let's say they marry, have a kid/kids and split up even many years later. By far, most will not have the money to keep two households functioning for long. That's a way to get homelessness. Some do drugs and alcohol to destroy their lives and alienate family.

    The social workers need to contact them and work in ways to remove homelessness.

    BTW, your name is crank.
     
  10. Gary/Dubya

    Gary/Dubya Well-Known Member

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    Your views are weird, just like all right-wingers.

    I spent time building a homeless shelter, did you?
     
  11. Gary/Dubya

    Gary/Dubya Well-Known Member

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    You don't have to be homeless to help build a homeless shelter and talk to the people involved while it is being set up.

    You don't need to break an arm to fix one.

    Those cities don't give right-wingers the time of day, so they sure aren't listening to your advice.
     
  12. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Sure, but you can definitely reduce it by making it harder and less comfortable. Just as we reduce misbehaviour in children by making it harder and less comfortable.

    "Harsh solutions" are often what is required. A child will say you're harsh for not letting them eat chocolate ice cream for breakfast, but in whose interests would it be to give in to that? Not the child's (in case you're still unsure).
     
  13. Gary/Dubya

    Gary/Dubya Well-Known Member

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    Give it up. No one wants to hear you when you claim living in a homeless state is comfortable.
     
  14. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    A shelter will not do anything. They already exist, and have empty beds in them. As long as these people are given rules (which all shelters must have), they will reject the help.
     
  15. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Really, you're going to play that game? I thought we'd passed that.

    Meantime, you know full well what is meant by 'comfortable' in this case.
     
  16. Gary/Dubya

    Gary/Dubya Well-Known Member

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    Areas don't have enough shelters and that's why people are on the streets. Shelters take people off the streets. Most would love to get to a shelter.
     
  17. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    I'm not a Right Winger. I'm a socialist and a Leftist.

    I've done one better. I've provided actual property to those unable to secure their own. AND I've produced humans who will not add to the homeless population.

    And FTR, I'm currently working on securing a large acreage for tiny houses. It will be available for anyone in our broader circle who is prepared to live responsibly and productively. All they need do is bring or build their tiny house. This will actually be a reality within the next 5 years. I'm not suggesting that any of the people who'll be joining us might otherwise be homeless (most wouldn't), but that every little bit helps, in terms of housing accessibility for the impecunious. Focus should be on these people, instead of those whose addictions will always take precedence.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
  18. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    People are on the streets because they reject the rules of polite society. Let's not lie now.
     
  19. Belch

    Belch Well-Known Member

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    If that harsh solution doesn't work, then why aren't the homeless where right wingers live? I'm looking out my window now, and... nope, no homeless people anywhere to be seen.

    About two years ago I spent an amazing week stuck on this youtube channel that ran a live feed of a homeless encampment somewhere in Washington. It was such a crazy situation because there were sometimes upwards of 1,000 people watching a group that ranged between 10 and 15 homeless people live their lives. The live stream chat was where the real action was. We gave them names like "the mayor" and "gypsy". The chatline was buzzing all day and night long filled with comments like "Dude! Pirate's taking a leak on the fence and the stream is rolling downhill to where Shaggy is sleeping!". Some would order pizzas to be delivered, and others would tell those of us on the chatline that they were going to be driving by and waving to the camera".

    As amusing as it all was, there's a lot to learn about the lives of homeless by just watching them. The most obvious is that those people were some of the laziest sons of bitches I have ever seen! There were big piles of garbage because they never bothered to clean anything up. And why should they? There was the weekly ritual of them moving their stuff to a different street so that the sanitation crew along with a police escort could pile all the old mattresses, blankets, and mountains of garbage into a truck. As soon as the crew was finished, the homeless would set up their tents and shelters again. We watched drugs being used, sex, and even some bullying, but 95% of the time, it was just pirate, the mayor, gypsy, shaggy, and several others who had yet to be given a nickname laying around doing absolutely nothing!

    https://www.king5.com/article/news/...er-cam-live-streaming-homeless-camp/463489391
     
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  20. Gary/Dubya

    Gary/Dubya Well-Known Member

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    You don't have a clue. There are no single reasons.
     
  21. Gary/Dubya

    Gary/Dubya Well-Known Member

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    Driving the homeless from an area doesn't solve homelessness. It's a right-wing way of putting your problems on others. That's probably why the homeless gather in cities.
     
  22. Belch

    Belch Well-Known Member

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    homeless don't need you to build them shelters. In fact, they hate those places! They are more than capable of improvising a shelter out of whatever they can scrounge in the area. Your shelters have ridiculous rules like no drugs, no alcohol, no fighting, no leaving until the morning, no sitting up watching TV and chatting until midnight.

    Yes, I know that those cities don't care what right wingers have to say. They should probably listen because what we do works, and what they do doesn't.
     
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  23. Belch

    Belch Well-Known Member

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    This is like saying that capital punishment doesn't deter crime. If I had a homeless guy sleeping in my wife's flower garden, and I went out there with a shotgun to help explain that he'd best find someplace else to set up camp, I don't see how you can say I haven't solved my homeless problem.

    He's not there anymore, and my wife isn't complaining about unnecessary fertilizer in her petunias. Problem solved!
     
  24. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    And that right there, is the reason we should NEVER make it 'comfortable'.
     
  25. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Yes, there IS a 'single' reason people stay homeless in the First World. Poor choices. Even the rarest kind of homelessness - a result of a completely unexpected cascade of events outside of our control (and as long as we have family or friends, that's even less likely to happen - because there'll always be at least a couch available for a short term emergency) is going to be temporary.
     

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