Feminist activist in Iran sentenced to 24 years in prison for removing hijab.

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by JessCurious, Sep 7, 2019.

  1. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    People get executed in the streets of the US in brought daylight by chocking when they disobey the law.
     
  2. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    All societies need reform but the most urgent need of Iran right now is to avoid being destroyed. It is hard for you to appreciate what I say, because (a) you are probably unaware of the extent and reach of the threat Iran faces, which isn't merely about war (itself rather a huge threat given the adversary is a superpower), but something a lot more pernicious even. It goes by the name "implosion" -- the weakening of the central government in Iran, combined with sanctions, efforts to sow discontent both in the center and the periphery, and a combination of other measures (including assassinations of individuals, cyber warfare, bribery combined with coercion of instrumental figures in Iran, offering bribes to the public to help this cause, and a host of other measures, including trying to impose a world wide blockade of Iran) which have the potential to achieve its stated aims. And (b) because you are applying what may the appropriate standards in response to issues faced by one society, to another with a host of different issues.
     
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  3. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Not true. The US is at 6.07 and Iran is just at 4.40.
    https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/terrorism-index

    And the biggest contributor of terror in Iran is probably Israel and the US.
    They had scientists being gunned down in the streets.
    And I doubt mass shootings in the US are considered terror.
     
  4. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thanks for your thoughts on that, but what about the use of government force? If someone drew a cartoon mocking Mohammed, would the government do anything? What would the government do?

    Since you lived in the United States and certainly realize the amount of "freedom from religion" that exists here, how does that freedom compare to the freedom in Iran? To further explain what I am asking - there are no religions in the United States that require me to do anything, and the government certainly doesn't require me to do anything religious. You say you are not religious, but do you still have to do anything religious in your day to day life?

    The above are sincere questions. I believe that many Americans, including myself, think that the citizens of Iran live under the oppressive thumb of Islam - that each citizen is forced to believe in Islam, or at least pretend that they do. I envision that each citizen, at certain times of the day, must bow down and pray at government insistence, even if they are not religious. Do those beliefs have any validity?
     
  5. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    I don't mean to come across as remotely knowledgeable on those topics. I am just providing a VERY long view of how best to weigh the need for social order and structure and the need for legitimate access to unorthodoxy and sustainable and viable minority or reform movements. its a fine balance. I don't doubt you probably have far more 'pressing matters' to worry about.
     
  6. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Maybe not for the reasons you believe, but there is a subtle truth to it. Ultimately, in life, if you want to act as a "leader" and not a "follower", you need to (a) have a message that people may be interested to hear; and (b) have the wherewithal to advocate and advance that message against those who will oppose it.

    In the case of Iran's mullahs, they apparently had a message within Iran to have been able to lead a popular revolution against one of the best armed regimes in the world, which also happened to be one of the most successful ones economically and diplomatically in the developing world. But given the fact that their message was ultimately about rejecting the hegemonic power of the United States, it was always a question mark whether they would have the wherewithal to succeed in the long run. To succeed, they would need to build a society as prosperous, powerful and cohesive as their enemy, while keep that enemy at bay long to be able to do so. The only time it looked like they might actually succeed was between 2006-09, and even then, their chances were no better than 50/50. By capitulating and agreeing to the JCPOA (which was always going to be a fraud, with or without Trump pulling out of it), they reduced their chances to what is now at best 20%.
     
  7. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

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    Military scientists? Do you have a news report on this?
     
  8. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    .
    Many liberals are doing that today in the US.

    Catherine the Great corresponded heavily with Voltaire and Rousseau, but later on she was so appalled at the evils of the French revolution that she prohibited the writings of the Enlightenment into Russia. When those views started coming in from Poland, Russia ended up with their own revolution - an even greater evil.

    As for the American revolution, it was different and had nothing to do with poverty. The American colonies had the highest standard of living in the world and our Founding Fathers were highly educated and highly devout. They weighed the pro's and con's of separating from Britain, and discussed everything in town meetings and churches.

    Later on George Washington was lauded for not making himself king - which he could have done easily. It makes me wonder though, if he had his own children rather than being the stepfather to his wife's children, would he then have made himself king? Who knows?
     
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  9. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    That isn't stopping lots of Americans making massacres. And who cares about your personal opinion? The very fast majority doesn't want big semi automatic weapons.

    Liberty. The US president usually wins with something like 60 to 70 million votes, in a country of +300 million. You think 1/5 of Iran would back up the current government? I do think so.

    This stuff is always used to make personal attacks.
     
  10. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You're funny! Actually I was thinking of the law suits against the baker who refused to go against his religious convictions. Isn't he being hurt economically - and isn't it deliberate?




    [​IMG]
    I'm the god of this world
    that's what I be
    to give you all
    of what you see.

    Unknownst to you though

    what you see
    is just but one reality.
    Another's called eternity.- Jeannette
     
  11. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

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    The president does not actually have that much power. The country is run by congress. The president can veto a bill but even then, congress can override the president if the super majority wanted to.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  12. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Not military scientists only, but also civilian scientists working on Iran's civilian nuclear program. The news on it is available through a simple google search. It is not something that anyone even disputes.

    Compared to the host of tactics used against Iran, these assassination (as tragic and unforgivable as they are) are almost pedestrian.
     
  13. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Look at South Africa today and tell me if apartheid was really so bad. Blacks are still living in crime and diseases infested shanty town. They've just replaced white oppressors with corrupted black oppressors.
     
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  14. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So you don't believe your mother, sister, daughter are equals?
     
  15. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nah. He's embracing the national socialist views on women, that is, they are only baby factories for the fatherland... Their job is to be pretty and to birth as many hitlerjugend in the shortest amount of time.
     
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  16. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Lots? Very few in a country of 330 million.
    My opinion, your opinion, what else is there nowadays but opinion?
    Then a Constitutional convention would be in order I suppose.

    Not a problem, honestly. If you prefer to live under a theocracy, that doesn't affect me. I am glad that I don't live under those conditions. And that doesn't affect you.

    Yes, a person claiming that I want the liberty to commit mass murder is on the edge of personal attack.

    That you are unwilling to say where you live is telling.
     
  17. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    I have no intention to be drawn into that debate because it has zero to do with my point. Americans have been less interested in the institutions of religion for decades. Fewer identify with any faith or denomination. Fewer go to any house of worship. Seminaries have fewer and fewer students applying. By every measure, we are showing ourselves more indifferent to whatever the catholic, protestant, or Jewish orthodoxy is selling in those churches, under the name of 'god'. Your problem is not gay marriage or cakes, it preceded gay marriage. We are more bored or wary of religion than invested.

    Your spiritual line of products either need a new label, a new branding, or a dramatic overhaul or you will keep losing your customer base as your old consumers die off. We don't appear to want it anymore.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  18. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I fear those who want stronger gun laws because I think their real target are the private militias. Those militias might be the only reason we haven't had a coup again Trump.

    If you mean equal by going to the same public bathroom? No they aren't.
     
  19. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Iran is a different society compared to the United States and therefore lives under different rules too. The rules in the US make perfect sense for the US, but wouldn't make sense in Iran. If I believed you to be sincerely motivated to examine all these issues, and not try to force answers to questions that highlight differences that make Americans convinced Iran is exactly a thing it ultimately is not, I would be more willing to entertain the questions you raise. But the purpose of the exercise has to be an honest exchange regarding the pertinent facts, and what underpins them, not meant to arrive at a predetermined destination, but instead wherever the truth and weight of arguments lead.

    That kind of discussion is very hard to conduct with anyone who believes they know the truth and right answers a priori. It doesn't matter if they are religious or not either. All it takes is being "sure" that you already have the right answers!
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  20. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

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    The web search showed an instance of Isreal acting alone and the USA putting pressure on Isreal to cease their activities.
     
  21. Sobo

    Sobo Banned

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    Male, female, queer, gender queer, bipolar, gender neutral, non binary, cis gender, gender fluid, gender queer and so on. Had to Google this ****

    http://teentalk.ca/learn-about/gender-identity/
     
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  22. Sobo

    Sobo Banned

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    No, they are females. Males and females are different. Both have Same value but are obviously different.
     
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  23. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You keep using the term 'WE' when you should be saying 'I'. Anyway the reason I mention Christianity is as a response to the militant atheism prevalent on the forum. As for Christianity, it won't die off - so give it up. It didn't die off in the USSR after 70 years, and it didn't die off in the Balkans after 400 years. When God feels the time is ripe, He'll start a revival like in Russia. Problem is it's usually preceded by massive calamities.
     
  24. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    I am a disinterested bystander. I don't much care whether Christianity grows or shrinks, but if Christians don't start asking some serious questions about what they are offering millennials and younger, both here and in Western Europe, they will need that calamity fairly soon.

    I just don't what to say about this particular product that it takes the periodic calamity to keep its subscription numbers up. That is really not a good sign of long term vitality.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  25. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That reminds me of when a father noticed a grown man walking into the ladies room after his daughter. He busts in to find out why he was in there. The man said "I identify as a female" The father knocked his teeth out and said "I identify as the tooth fairy!"

    No one is arguing they are not different. My question was if you considered them equals.
     

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