The Not so Subtle Moral Decay of the US Military

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by Jazz, Aug 29, 2019.

  1. Eadora

    Eadora Well-Known Member

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    YOUR stunning rebuttal seems an accurate measure of YOUR Intellect

    .
     
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  2. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Then let's make sure we have plenty of energetic good men in America.
     
  3. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    It does in most places in the world.
     
  4. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    No it's a reflection of my respect for your opinion.
     
  5. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    We certainly are not raising them to be , nor are we leading them properly in battle.
     
  6. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    yes, that's what I heard, too. Here is a statement from Brigadier General Carter Clarke – the military intelligence officer in charge of preparing summaries of intercepted Japanese cables for President Truman and his advisors – said (pg. 359):


    "When we didn’t need to do it, and we knew we didn’t need to do it, and they knew that we knew we didn’t need to do it, we used them as an experiment for two atomic bombs."


    Many other high-level military officers concurred.
    -----
    Some time ago I read somewhere that Hitler forbade to use the atom bomb. He felt it was too cruel and also devastated the landscape for a long time.
    Here I found an interesting read:
    Why Germany dropped the atom bomb...
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/4768587/Why-did-Nazis-drop-the-A-bomb.html

    Am not sure, if that is it. As far as I know, the plans and ingredients were shipped via U-Boot to Japan, but the trip was abandoned near the Canadian shore and surrendered to an American ship.
     
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  7. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    The Germans never came remotely near developing a useable atomic bomb. Mainly because they were pursuing a dead end design track that the U.S. had already abandoned.
     
  8. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    So the problems are parenting and government. They are at the basis of all of the country's problems.
     
  9. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    That's probably pretty accurate.
     
  10. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Finally we agree on something!
     
  11. EarthSky

    EarthSky Well-Known Member

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    Quite correct. The military knew that Japan was on the verge of surrender but they were overruled for political considerations. The Truman administration was already planning to contain the Soviet Union in Europe and Asia and used the bombings as a threat:

    "The top American military leaders who fought World War II, much to the surprise of many who are not aware of the record, were quite clear that the atomic bomb was unnecessary, that Japan was on the verge of surrender, and—for many—that the destruction of large numbers of civilians was immoral. Most were also conservatives, not liberals. Adm. William Leahy, President Truman’s Chief of Staff, wrote in his 1950 memoir I Was There that “the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender.… in being the first to use it, we…adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children.”

    The commanding general of the US Army Air Forces, Henry “Hap” Arnold, gave a strong indication of his views in a public statement only eleven days after Hiroshima was attacked. Asked on August 17 by a New York Times reporter whether the atomic bomb caused Japan to surrender, Arnold said that “the Japanese position was hopeless even before the first atomic bomb fell, because the Japanese had lost control of their own air.”

    “It was a mistake.... [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it.” —Adm. William “Bull” Halsey"


    https://www.thenation.com/article/why-the-us-really-bombed-hiroshima/

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn7706-hiroshima-bomb-may-have-carried-hidden-agenda/



    This was the start of the Truman Doctrine and the beginning of the cold war effort for the US to demonize and contain it's former WWII ally for ideological and political reasons.

    The tragic effort to turn the Soviet Union from an ally into an existential threat that followed would lead to decades of bloody conflict that never needed to be and the type of dangerous polarized world we have today.

    The atomic bombings were the beginning America's message to the world that it would not tolerate any economic system but one on its own terms.
     
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  12. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    I am sorry Communism is demonic and absolutely needed to be contained in fact we didn't contain it enough and millions died as a result.
     
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  13. EarthSky

    EarthSky Well-Known Member

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    There are no such things as demons. You don't understand the difference between communism and state capitalism nor how many of your attemts to crush self-determination over land and resources in foreign lands drove countries into the Soviet camp.

    And whatever you do never acknowledge or admit all the millions of innocent people who have died in your needless ideological wars to defeat an enemy that never needed to be.

    If you ever step outside the illusion or perhaps delusion of your own fantasy of self rightiousness, the whole manufactured facade collapses in the light of the truth of your own bloody history.
     
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  14. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    You seriously think that if the U.S. and its allies had simply left the Soviet Union alone after World War Two that they would have left the rest of the world alone? Or that the Soviets would've conducted themselves on the world stage better than the U.S. did?
     
  15. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    That is your opinion based on a very bad reading of history.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communist_regimes
     
  16. EarthSky

    EarthSky Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Cuba was not specifically communist or in the Soviet camp before the constabt threats of invasion. The just wanted to get rid of United Fruit and the mafia.

    There were free elections in Eastern Europe just aftet WWII until the nuclear threats and the rise of a hostile government in Germany after the Soviets had just list 20 million people fighting them.

    Check it out for yourself.
     
  17. EarthSky

    EarthSky Well-Known Member

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    Great. Wiki mass killings by US supported dictators or people by sanctions and illegal wars.

    The Russians also broke the back of the Nazi death machine while you guys were cosying up to the mafia in Italy.

    I could go on and on but there is just no way to disengage you guys from the delusion of your own righteousness and the need ro manufacture enemies ro justify your own military excesses and gunboat posturing.

    I'm not revising history I'm trying to pragmatically present it to you through documentation.

    No one is denying there were all kinds of horrible regimes of all stripes and all kinds of horrible acts commited including incinerating civilians with nuclear weapons.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
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  18. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    Your propaganda is BS.
     
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  19. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    Going from memory after reading Speer's book, he asked scientists when they could get close to a bomb. Speer knew the war would be over by the target date and cancelled weapon research and gave much of the U2 to the armaments factories. Afterwards, reasearch was limited to nuclear power generation. This article goes into some of it.
    https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/why-nazi-nuclear-bomb-never-happened-and-world-was-saved-53382?page=0,1
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
  20. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    If you fell for the "stop communism" song & dance, you will fall for anything at all.
     
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  21. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    If you don't fall for it. You'll live under their dominance unless of course they kill you..

    Your argument is the historical equivalent of the flat earth argument.
     
  22. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    I was there in 1970, where were you Robert?
     
  23. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    Lots of people were there and lots of them have much much different views than you .
    Most of the Marines who kicked the Viet Congs ass in 68 feel differently.

    Most of the fighter pilots stationed in Thailand have a much different view..

    Where were you stationed?
     
  24. Eadora

    Eadora Well-Known Member

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    The accusations that YOU are Deluded
    ............................................seem accurate
    ........................ .[​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    .
    Your puerile grasp of History lines up well with the uncomfortable
    FACT that the United States is more that willing to pay the price
    of the murder of half a million children, and Veting & Sponsoring
    terrorists who JOY in decapitating kids makes the US

    "The greatest source for good on this planet"

    You sir are Deluded
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
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  25. EarthSky

    EarthSky Well-Known Member

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    That's what you got, Robert? My propaganda is BS? Lol, that's very weak, you know.

    At least you could call me a communist or disparage my intelligence or tell me I'm in bed with Putin just to make it interesting.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change

    https://www.salon.com/2014/03/08/35_countries_the_u_s_has_backed_international_crime_partner/

    https://allthatsinteresting.com/us-dictator-alliances

    http://theconversation.com/saudi-arabia-is-a-repressive-regime-and-so-are-a-lot-of-us-allies-105106
     
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