Massive Fires In Saudi Arabia - Aramco Oil Facilities Hit By Drones

I haven't found any information on that yet but it looks like the Sauds/US are also going for their final genocide on the people of Yemen.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...rces-launch-airstrikes-on-yemen-city-hodeidah

I saw your post, went to check and found that. We are probably going to see the final genocide in Yemen possibly followed by the attempt at same in Iran and then the granting of the Israeli wish to annex almost all Palestine. Looks like we are arriving at the Armageddon the Christian Right of the US have been working for all these years which coupled with the climate emergency will send us on the path to human extinction.

 

The Houthis, in this I am sure backed by Iran, have offered an olive branch. I don't see developments leading in that direction, but lets if the Saudis are even capable of reciprocating. I say "even capable" because there has been a lot of pressure on them or to not do what the UAE did (or tried to do), namely jump ship and refuse to continue the madness driven by the pro Israel lobby and their allies in the US.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/09/houthis-stop-attacks-saudi-arabia-190920183802126.html

 

On a smaller level it strucl me the other day that the blaming of Iran for all this was to stop what would have been the world's reaction - that is to see a Houthi attack such as this as being entirely understandable and demands for the Saud's

Was that before or after the US/Sauds attack on Yemen|?

 

I can see Iranian Monitor why it would be better for Iran to get this started sooner rather than later.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/sep/20/us-troops-saudia-arabia-iran-oil-industry-attack

The hope it would appear is still to avoid putting US soldiers on the ground but to offer protection to the Sauds and UAE so that they will be up to the attempted destruction of Iran after the 2020 American Presidential Election. The hope would be the usual - the US side to be able to kill the other with impunity. I begin to think of the US as sadistic cowards.

 

Very true.

Unrelated to it. The Houthis feel they have send their message and its time for the Saudis to negotiate with them from a position that can allow for a serious and just end to the conflict. More broadly, Iran has been pushing for engagement with Saudi Arabia, but there is a lot of pressure on them not to give up and stay the course. While I am disgusted that Iran would even want to talk to a monster like MBS and his ilk, the fact is that Iran sees negotiating with the Saudis as more promising than negotiating with the Americans. Unlike the US, which will want to dictate terms and negotiate from a position of strength, the Saudis will negotiate (if they do) from a much more level playing field and angle.

 

Possibly. The US strength of course coming from their belief that they can kill as they want without having to suffer in return.

My question re whether the Saudi attack on Yemen was before or after the Saudi attack was that possibly it was an answer to the Houthis proposal - that is saying No.

The Houthis added

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/09/houthis-stop-attacks-saudi-arabia-190920183802126.html

so we still have the US beefing it up. I guess it remains to be seen whether the Saud's will be open to locally sorting things out but given that the US appear to be in control of what is happening there and who is running KSA I think Iran is being hopeful.

The Houthis are correct that taking things further could or indeed will result in dangerous developments. That clearly was what the Houthis were doing. A massive attack and now end this war on us before things get really out of control - while the US position appears to be to instead use that to support the final assault on the ME.

 

Even if the attacks followed the Houthi proposal, which I am not sure right now (I will double check), it doesn't mean necessarily they are saying; No. Neither side wants to negotiate from a position from perceived weakness. The Saudis are doing this while still undecided on their course: follow the Americans on a course that will ultimately see them burn (even if they burn everyone else with them), or resist the pressures on them and follow a different course? l
In facing this question, the fact that MBS is the one that has a major say on how the Saudis proceed, is quite significant. The guy is a spoiled brat with no experience not getting what he wants. He is not just a monster, but a very irresponsible one to boot.

In the final analysis, I agree: I don't see the Saudis, particularly with MBS at the helm, going e anywhere except what the US/Israel want them to go. Sometimes they get nervous, though, and the US is there to hold their hands!

 

Trump claims that it would be very very easy to invade Iran, claims he is showing great restraint rather than waiting till after the 2020 election and claims he has now secured a total economic siege around Iran.

US military should note that he is now talking about boots on the ground in Iran.

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20190920-trump-says-invading-iran-would-be-very-easy-decision/

 

With Trump, it is better not to take what he says literally, but understand what he is trying to say instead "I am not weak, I am strong: a decision to go to war with Iran would be easy, and not a sign of strength. I am strong resisting these calls to do what I believe is good for the US."

Of more concern to me than any plans for a land invasion of Iran, is his habit of bringing nuclear weapons in discussions. And using terms that suggest he is thinking in that direction. To be fair, he was asked the question directly and his response supposedly ruling it out was as follows:

 

Trump follows his base and donours - that is the Christian extreme Right and one very rich extreme Jewish Zionist who of course to go with what you say, has suggested Iran should be nuked.

This article suggests that Saudi Arabia should do as you suggest for its own survival and points out that the Dictatorship of Saudi Arabia could just as easily see itself turned against as has happened to similar in the region with a change of mind or regime in the US.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/saudi-arabia-should-open-dialogue-iran-save-itself

 

This article is suggesting that the attack was not exactly by the Houthis and most certainly not by Iran

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/2...behind-the-attack-on-saudi-aramco-facilities/

If that was true it would suggest the Houthis do not have a serious bargaining chip and I would hate to think what is going on in Saudi Arabia at the moment.

 

There will be a lot of conspiracy type theories, but I am confident they are barking on the wrong tree. Some intentionally as a misdirection, many from people who have learned to mistrust anything that seeks to 'blame' a party they feel is being aggrieved or conspired against.

The Saudis have, uncharacteristically, opened up everything for various experts to comb through the evidence carefully. And that evidence contains enough, including unexploded missiles, drone and other debris, as well as components, as well the installations and the damage points, are all of which are capable of providing experts a clear idea of what happened. None of these theories can explain the fact that the Houthis not only claimed responsibility for this immediately, meaning they knew about what had happened and didn't need to wait for anyone to explain it, but also subsequently provided enough details about how they did this in a briefing they held.

p.s.
To be sure, there might have been some "infiltration" as well. The Houthis themselves have claimed they had assistance from sympathizers on the ground.

 

And who then will protect the oil in the ME that is used by many countries for their economy and security? The US trades with those countries. What about American workers who depend on their exports to those countries? Unfortunately we are now a global economy and need countries to be able to buy goods from the US. Oil is a necessary evil for now and the US must help to protect it.

 

I believe you have put it in before but could you give me a link. They claim it came neither from the direction of Yemen or Iran.

 

What is the link you are looking for?

 

This

 

I saw some of their briefing but for some reason no one has cared to post it on youtube (or I couldn't find it). The gist of what they said is covered below:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Abqaiq–Khurais_attack

 

Frankly I hope they were mainly behind them.

 

I hope so too. At the end, as long as the experts sent by the UN (as well as several other countries) try to do a professional job, this seems to be a case where there is a wealth of evidence to piece together. But the evidence needs to be carefully studied and examined, by those who have both the expertise and have that evidence available to study from all angles. This is not a case which can be falsely pinned on anyone, even if some of the details might never be discovered.

 

Here are some of the attacks which the Houthis unquestionably carried out against Saudi Arabia, avoiding US supplied air defense systems.




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabian–Yemeni_border_conflict_(2015–present)

• On 22 July 2017, the Houthi forces launched a Volcano H-2 missile on Saudi Arabia targeting the oil refineries in the Yanbu Province of Saudi Arabia. Houthis and Ali Saleh media have claimed that the missile hit its target causing a major fire, while Saudi Arabia has claimed that it was due to the extreme heat that caused one of the generators to blow up.[72]
• On 27 July 2017, the Houthis forces launched approximately 4 Volcano 1 missiles at King Fahad Air Base; the Houthis said that the missiles had successfully hit their targets.[73]
• On 5 November 2017, the Houthi Forces successfully launched a Volcano H-2 on Saudi Arabia targeting the capital Riyadh which garnered worldwide media attention. According to a Houthi spokesperson the missile hit its target, King Khalid International Airport, while Saudi Arabia claimed that it had downed the ballistic missile before it hit the airport.[74]

2018[edit]

• On 11 and 12 January 2018, The Houthis fired ballistic missiles at Najran. These attacks were confirmed by Saudi sources, which also reported that both missiles had been shot down.[76][77]
• On 30 January 2018, Pro-Houthi sources reported an additional missile attack, aimed at Riyadh.[78]
• On 26 March 2018, Houthis fired 7 ballistic missiles towards the Saudi capital of Riyadh, all of which were intercepted by Saudi systems. 1 person was killed and 2 injured as a result.[85][86]
• Pro-Houthis al-Masirah TV quoted Saudi sources as saying that 33 Saudi soldiers were killed and 12 others injured in Houthis retaliatory attacks in the first 10 days of April.[87]

2019[edit]

• On August 26, 2019, Houthi rebels fired a total of 10 Badr-1 ballistic missiles at the Jizan airport in southwest Saudi Arabia. The retaliatory attack led to dozens of killings and injuries. Riyadh claimed that it had intercepted six out of 10 missiles fired from Yemen.[88]

 

Depending on whose statistic you want to believe, the USA imports only a tiny portion of its oil from Saudi Arabia. Some say it is 10%, others say it is 1%. Whatever the actual amount, it is insignificant compared to our other energy sources. Thus, it is not worth the loss of our blood for the profit of the unpatriotic elites whose pockets are lined with American blood money.

You insist on protecting the resources of the elites? Then pay for that protection yourself.

Meanwhile, the government needs to get the hell out of that region and to finally get started in solving our problems here at home.

 

Certainly true of right wingers while the majority of Americans do not any more war. However, it is well established that it is the war profiting elites who control the government and that is why they always have their war. Soon thereafter, they will blame Democrats for the wastage of dollars and human lives. Then when further conflict arise from these wars, they blame Dems for that as well.

 

There I am talking more of your policy advisers as well as yes a few on this forum.

Interesting article here which believes time is over in the US game with Iran of 'no war no peace' because this is a game only Iran can win - that is play the game of the destruction of Iran and the end game is, Iran is the leading power in the region.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/us-will-not-win-war-iran

The houthi attack on KSA oil appears to suggest that the days of we have the most expensive deadliest weapons so we may kill you with impunity are over. The wars in the ME in particular the Syria war which that article mentions also do.

 

You fail to understand how important the global economy is. This is not the 20th century anymore where the US dominated the export markets. When you better understand how the global economy has changed since then you will understand why it is more important then ever the US help protect the oil from the ME that is used by many countries The US trades with. The US cannot remain a strong economy by simply selling it's products to Americans. America is no longer a super manufacturing country and we rely on many of the products that are made cheaper by foreign countries. If you are referring to Afghanistan, Syria and Iraq I agree we should leave since those countries have very little to do with protecting the oil shipping lanes in the ME.

 

Or possibly you should understand the climate emergency we are living under where we should be moving to renewables yesterday if we want to save the world. It really is that stark now.

The US and other western countries are going to have to stop wasting money to make the fossil fuel providers rich or forget about a tomorrow.