Hamas fires rockets at Israel

You would sign a treaty too if you were under siege.
The fact is - Jerusalem was seized from the people who had no right being there either.
The temple could be demolished a dozen times - makes no difference - it's Jewish and
should be fully return to Jewish hands. The Muslims can take their holy shrines and
put them elsewhere - they own 99.9% of the Middle East. They have lost their minds
over Jews "occupying" one tenth of one percent of the Middle East - land that was Jewish
for a few thousand years before anyone even heard of Islam.

 

Do you think those North American Indians, the ones who fled to Canada in the 1800's,
will ever come back and colonize the USA?

 

I understand that Arabs were rioting over Jews being back in Palestine in the early 1900's.
These Jews did not occupy Arab land - only land they purchased with cash. Many of the
Arabs, oddly enough, had come into Palestine from Lebanon, Jordan and Syria because
of increased economic opportunities.
This land belonged to the Turks. The West Bank belonged to Jordan. Gaza was Egypt's
I believe. No riots then, even though the place was a "rubbish dump" as you should call
it.
"Terrorist gangs" rose in response to Arab attacks.

Palestinians who fled Israel CAN return if they agreed to the final, comprehensive peace
settlement. But of course, they won't accept this settlement because it leaves the Jews,
the indigenous people of Palestine, still in Israel.
How long is this conflict going to go on for? You can't call yourself a "refugee" if you
are a citizen or under the protection of another country. If this isn't true then there's
half a million Jewish refugees from the Middle East that can go home to the seven
Arab nations that expelled them. And of course, most Jews have been refugees for
two thousand years - real refugees.

 

For most of its history Jerusalem was Canaanite, Christian and Arab. There were Arabs in Palestine at the time of Abraham and Moses.. You did know that both had Arab wives.

According to Ezra there were Arabs in Jerusalem at the end of the Babylonian exile.

Sargon 2 settled 4 Arab tribes in Samaria circa 700 BC.

 

They didn't purchase much land … in 1948 they had bought less than 6% of the land. By the time of Christ the majority of Jews did not live in Palestine. Their were Jewish communities in Rome, Aleppo, Damascus, Persia, Libya, Alexandria, Egypt, Elephantine Island, Turkey and all around the Med Sea. Also Iraq.

The Jewish gangs started up in the 1920s and by 1948 they had killed over 500 British peacekeepers.

 

When you take over a government, and the rule of law, than you haven't removed the population to steal their property.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Palestine
Sophronius also negotiated a pact with Caliph Umar, known as the Umariyya Covenant or Covenant of Omar, allowing for religious freedom for Christians in exchange for jizyah (Arabic: جِـزْيَـة‎), a tax to be paid by conquered non-Muslims, called "dhimmis." Under Muslim Rule, the Christian and Jewish population of Jerusalem in this period enjoyed the usual tolerance given to non-Muslim theists

Bishop Arculf, whose account of his pilgrimage to the Holy Land in the 7th century, De Locis Sanctis, written down by the monk Adamnan, described reasonably pleasant living conditions of Christians in Palestine in the first period of Muslim rule.

 

You're totally distracting away from your point of "Nothing to do with religion. The state of Israel is essentially a secular state.". And I proved you wrong. You got a person in the Jew homeland government, citing religious text to justify the Jew colonizing the WB. My source doesn't state she was ranting nonsense. Hence I am not interested in your questions. I aint your Siri or Alexa. If you got something to dispute, than go source it.

 

The Church of Scotland brought out The Inheritance of Abraham to try and cover the Biblical mistakes that Christian Zionists were making about the situation in Palestine/Israel. They acknowledge that they too were both Zionists and Imperialists at the time the idea of bringing Jews 'back' to the ME became part of Protestant Christianity and they, like everyone else of that time held views which would be repugnant now.

This is the original version.

https://www.scojec.org/news/2013/13v_cos/inheritance_of_abraham-original.pd

 

I wanted to read your link, but it no longer available.

Christian Zionism came from the Darbyites. Its bad theology.

 

Perhaps I put in a bad link I changed my mind about putting in the original or the revised.

Here is the original

https://www.scojec.org/news/2013/13v_cos/inheritance_of_abraham-original.pdf

and this is the revised

http://urcthamesnorth.org.uk/assets...otland-Inheritance-of-Abraham-2013-Report.pdf

They both work here. I can see I gave you a bad ink before.

The revised was made because certain people kicked off.

 

Jizya was only paid by able-bodied men who didn't want to serve in defense of the community and it was a smaller tax than Zakat tax required of Muslims.

Muslim had to pay Zakat based on net worth.. If they were poor, they paid nothing at all.

 

Thanks.

excerpt:

Interestingly, some Jewish leaders, like Ahad Ha’Am (active at the end of the 19th and the beginning of the 20th centuries) resisted this literalist view, and recognised the need for Zionist Jews moving to Palestine to treat the indigenous Palestinians with respect and good judgement.
Kairos Palestine (2.3.1): Our land is God’s land, as is the case with all countries in the world. It is holy inasmuch as God is present in it, for God alone is holy and sanctifier. It is the duty of those of us who live here, to respect the will of God for this land. It is our duty to liberate it from the evil of injustice and war. It is God's land and therefore it must be a land of reconciliation, peace and love. This is indeed possible. God has put us here as two peoples, and God gives us the capacity, if we have the will, to live together and establish in it justice and peace, making it in reality God's land: "The earth is the Lord's and all that is in it, the world, and those who live in it" (Psalm 24:1).

Naim Ateek5 a contemporary Christian thinker in Israel has written that: “the sole ambition of Zionists, Christians and Jews alike, has been the acquisition of the land for the Jewish people.” He characterises Christian Zionism as: “a movement within Protestant fundamentalism that understands the modern state of Israel as the fulfilment of biblical prophecy and thus deserving of political, financial and religious support.

Have you read Ateek's book, A Palestinian Cry for Reconciliation?

 

No I haven't read it. The church of Scotland's one of course disagrees. Kairos approached them for help which is why they wrote it hoping some Christian Zionists could understand that their understanding is not correct. Christian Zionists do not care about Israeli and Palestinian Christians at all. They have found it difficult to get support. At some point they say, and I am guessing they may have got this from Kairos that the current ill treatment that Christians are getting in the ME may be at least in part because people believe that they also think like the Christian Zionists - and to be frank, I do not think the CZ's would care if that were true.

 

You'll love Ateek's book..

 

The point was raised that Jews were removed and their property stolen....
I sourced it didn't happen. They were just governed over them.
I source that I am right,... and now you're just deflecting away about taxes.

 

Maybe we're talking at cross purposes. There were NO Jews in Jerusalem in 638 AD. They were not allowed in the city .. Omar invited them to return.

 

Well I could find no free copy of his book to read online. I did find him talking about one of his books in 2009 but only for ten minutes. I discovered he was 11 years old when his village was occupied and he was forced to leave. His father pleaded that they could stay and was told either they leave or they would be killed. They left. The Christians and the Muslims were divided and the Christians sent to Nazareth and the Muslims to Jordan. It appeared that this was a trauma which re-occurred at different times in his life but I could not find the next bit after the first 9 minutes.

Instead I found this.

Tarek Abuata talks about the Americans asking why the Palestinians cannot find a Ghandhi and points out that while the US was moving its Embassy illegally to a Jerusalem to be the undivided Israeli capital, Palestinians were walking to the fence and being shot by Israelis and he questions just how much more non violent they can be. Of course the West, the US applauds this killing by the Israelis.

Ateek talks about his work in teaching Palestinian Liberation Theology. He and Tarek Abuata talk about how they are let down in the US not just by Christian Zionists but by most Christians due to the way they read their bibles - that is what the Church of Scotland booklet was about.

More than once they talk about how anyone who walked with Martin Luther King or similar and does not walk with the Palestinians is a fraud.

Ateek talks a fair amount about his childhood, being occupied and forced to leave his home. He talks about he and others working for Justice and how this is impossible. He accepts that the two state solution is dead but cannot see a one state solution as he believes that will be an apartheid state with no rights for the Palestinians. Ateek cannot imagine a Jewish State would be capable of giving all of its citizens equal rights,

At the end a questioner points out that they have been talking about Liberation Theology but have been missing out the Liberation Theology which is at the heart of Judaism whether experienced under occupation or under other Empires. She points out the passionate voices of many American Jews that act within that challenging the 'Empire'. She sees that as a reflection of the real heart of Judaism. They had already spoken about their work with Jewish Voice for Peace and she mentions that some people working for them can never again go back to Israel to see their families but they stay true to their conscience and do not give up on what she sees as Jewish Liberation Theology. Ateek immediately says 'That is true Judaism'

Tarek Abuata then says

Max Blumenthal says he thinks the Jewish World is in a moral free fall because of Zionism and the attachment of its established leaders to the Western Empire. He suggests that Jews through the Zionist project are being used kind of as human shields for Empire. He says the empire is bad for the Jews. He speaks about meeting a man in Gaza during the 2014 war who had been taken as a human shield by the Israelis. He told Blumenthal how he had been lined up and the Israelis had shot over him and killed his neighbours. He speaks of several other atrocities he was told about all happening in one small block. He also speaks about how the US weapons Industry relies on the Special Relationship with Israel. He says these weapons are used in Gaza by young men and women who are Jews and who are being incentivised to kill for profit, for what Trump calls 'Job Creation'. "This is how I feel Jews are being used as human shields for Empire. The Empire also threatens Christians throughout the Middle East with games like Operation Timber Sycamore which was a billion dollar arm and equip program by the US covertly through the CIA to arm Salafi Jihhadi militias in Syria who had a genocidal program for the Christian community in Syria".



You can get the transcript for the first half or so at https://www.thejerusalemfund.org/22...ogy-a-conversation-with-reverend-naim-ateek-3

After 9/11 the West lost all morality over Palestine/Israel.

 

You know your stuff. Are you a supporter of Sabeel? Thanks.

 

most of Palestine was State Land or private land owned by absentee landlords who leased land to Arab farmers.

this is according to the UN

 

So.. It didn't belong to the Jewish immigrants.. Why do you think they destroyed over 300 Arab villages. There's no way to sugar coat what they did, Ron.

 

Palestinians are Muslims and it's all about religion, not land. It's a religious war, it's international, and any excuse will be used in order to defeat the non Islamic enemy.

 

Palestinians are descended from Jewish farmers who didn't leave Palestine.

"Moshe Dayan, in his diaries said: "Our strategy was always to provoke the Arabs and get an appropriate response so we could attack and smash them."
http://www.sott.net/signs/signs154.htm

 

Not really.. Jewish people lived all over the Arab world until 1973.. They still be there if not for European Zionism.

"Moshe Dayan, in his diaries said: "Our strategy was always to provoke the Arabs and get an appropriate response so we could attack and smash them."
http://www.sott.net/signs/signs154.htm

 

so you're saying no Muslim migrants moved to Palestine since the 12th century?

LOL!!!

nonsense.

 

there would still be hundreds of thousands of Jews in the Muslim world, if it wasn't for Muslim anti-Semitism.