Evolving views?

Discussion in 'Gay & Lesbian Rights' started by Greenleft, Oct 9, 2019.

  1. Greenleft

    Greenleft Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2013
    Messages:
    1,482
    Likes Received:
    417
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    These days when it comes to gender identity and sexual orientation, I don't know what to think. The LGBT acronym seems to be expanding to Q and + and possibly more.

    When I say bisexual, people will throw back pan-sexual or non-binary. When I say straight, people might not include to that label men who are attracted to transsexuals or women who are attracted to women who identify as men. When I say gay, that could correctly label both homosexual men and lesbian women.

    For the record, I support gay rights and transgender rights in all forms. But I do have a couple of questions. In the past with childhood naivety, I made the assumption over identity and human relationships through what genitalia you came out of your mother's womb with.

    So now we cannot make assumptions over who may have a relationship with whom and what an individual's gender identity is.

    When looking around in a crowded urban center, I obviously should not make assumptions about anyone. However, when having personal interactions I do worry about falling back on making assumptions.

    So here are my two questions:

    How does one navigate the mine field of not offending somebody when their sexual identity and sexual orientation is brought up? Do I need to do be careful at what label I put on them or if I'm attracted to them, do I need to inquire of their orientation before making any propositions? (OK that's multiple questions in the same theme)

    My second question is this: If I tell you I am a man who is attracted to women, do I need to clarify further my orientation and/or will you challenge me on my statement? You might say something like "Well... maybe you have gay moments!" like if I recognize that another man is handsome but do not wish to sleep with him.

    Basically what I'm trying to say overall is that I would hope you could forgive me for making assumptions and that I might need to educate myself further on these questions.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
  2. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    27,703
    Likes Received:
    21,103
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I just refuse to be shamed for making reasonable assumptions. Shamers are like predatory animals. If you don't respond like prey, they dont recognize you as prey ;)
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
  3. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Messages:
    41,827
    Likes Received:
    32,495
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The Q and + have actually been part of the acronym for a while. They mean various things to various people (questioning, queer, and so on). The current acronym LGBTQIA+ is getting absurd. I understand the want to be inclusive but when it becomes confusing you’ve gone too far.

    It does, people picking apart verbiage used in a non-harassing manner are busy bodies looking for something to be offended.

    Don’t try to label people, if they have some type of desired pronoun they will let you know. If you are attracted to someone just say so, most people appreciate a complement even if they are not interested.

    Anyone that challenges who you feel you are is an *******, best you avoid them.

    Assumptions are commonplace, and there is really nothing wrong with them. I’d you get corrected try to honor what the person has requested, many of them (in my experience) have some fairly deep seated issues and if calling them by a different pronoun makes their day even a little better it’s worth it to me.
     
  4. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2010
    Messages:
    53,264
    Likes Received:
    18,026
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I don't think you should walk on eggshells. You can make assumptions about people's sex. I have gotten it wrong before and said excuse me and used the proper term. This isn't even involving transgenders. It's okay. If someone were to correct me and say that they are non-binary and that I should address them as king waba waba they can go right to hell.
     
  5. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    Messages:
    14,839
    Likes Received:
    4,815
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don’t see why this wouldn’t just be part of the wider questions of social interaction. How do you avoid offering a vegetarian a bacon sandwich, calling an unmarried woman “Mrs…”, balance offering necessary assistance and patronising disabled people? Every social interaction, especially with people we’ve not met before, is strewn with social landmines but we’re all ultimately in the same situation and most people are perfectly reasonable about it.

    General labels and pronouns should flow naturally. You can generally ask if that flows naturally or guess with an open questioning inflection. Most people for whom this is a complication will be more than used to the confusion of new people and shouldn’t have an major issue as long as you’re respectful and listen when they do confirm or correct your assumptions.

    Once you’re getting in to the area of romantic attraction, I’d like to think you’d know the individual well enough already. The question of whether they’re attracted to you should run much deeper than if you’re the “right” gender for their preferences or not. If you’re talking in more of a “one night stand” kind of situation I’d suggest you have all sorts of other difficulties to deal with anyway but are entirely responsible for creating them yourself.

    Have you every interacted with another human being? Nobody talks like that. Why would I even care what your orientation is unless we were engaging in some kind of relationship and if we’re engaging in a relationship, those kinds of discussions and understanding of each other should flow much more naturally and organically than you seem to be imagining. If it doesn’t, you’re not really in a relationship.
     
  6. Greenleft

    Greenleft Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2013
    Messages:
    1,482
    Likes Received:
    417
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Actually, I had this kind of talk in high school many years ago. I don't remember exactly what was said, but I had some homophobic views back then (I regret it and have learned better since) and was talking with my friends about how do you know if somebody is gay. One girl said that I may have a little gay in me if I recognized other guys as good looking.
     
  7. Greenleft

    Greenleft Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2013
    Messages:
    1,482
    Likes Received:
    417
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm not interested in fooling around liberally so problem solved I guess.
     

Share This Page