How can homosexuality not be a perversion?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Mac-7, Sep 16, 2019.

  1. Etbauer

    Etbauer Banned

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    Ok, so if that is not your opinion, then both homosexual and straight couples should be free to act on their attraction in the same way. And, it shouldn't be a problem in a society where one of those two is a minority in a society that has historically persecuted them to provide some education and assistance towards tolerance and acceptance of that persecuted minority.
     
  2. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    This is the argument made by lethal dictators throughout history.
     
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  3. Colombine

    Colombine Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Decent people don't lie and hate.
     
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  4. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

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    Triggered? Not so much. My post was laced with sarcasm towards a certain moderator.
    And if my not being a bigot makes me compassionate then guilty.
     
  5. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    Can we imagine the cardinality of the set of natural numbers? No, we just realize there is no largest number and call it infinity - an idea that is nonetheless accepted in mathematics if only for the sake of transcendental numbers. So how is imagination germane here?
    Seeing spacetime itself is His creation, the question is nonsensical.
    Just Who do you suppose created them?
    lol
    Were that the case, you'd be having it with someone else.
    lol

    Q: What did Adam say to Eve as they were headed away from the Garden of Eden, the flaming sword at their backs?

    A: "Who does He think He is?"
    Acts aren't immoral because God sees them happening and then makes them immoral by fiat. They're immoral because they are, from their inception, inimical to His character.
    Then what the hell are you waiting for?
     
  6. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Obviously you know little about science, in spite of your handle.
    Behavioral science that is.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019
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  7. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I have no problem with you believing in a god who created the universe. I would point out that he may have done so by forming an environment where this big bang occurred. We don't really have a physics lesson on how he managed. But, there certainly are multiple supporting directions that it did involve the big bang. I don't see that as countering the Abrahamic faiths. The Bible has more important things to explain than physics.

    I do not see any evidence that homosexuality is new, surprising, or immoral.

    Matthew 25:31-<end> has some strong language about those who don't seek out and treat people as Jesus would treat them. Failing that is a pathway to hell according to Matthew's gospel. This goes far beyond the "golden rule", as Christians don't get away with simply not meeting people or with deciding that they themselves would expect to be treated poorly. Christians are directed to SEEK OUT those in prison, in hospitals, etc., in order to treat them as JESUS would treat them (not just how Christians might expect to be treated as per the golden rule).

    That's a powerful statement! I think it should apply to all, not just Christians!

    Before you head off to deny homosexuals equality, you should read Matthew. You might have hell to pay.
     
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  8. Etbauer

    Etbauer Banned

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    Well, I suppose just in that imagination is the only place anyone has ever found anything related to a creator.
    Ok, exact same logic can apply to anything we want then. How/why did the universe begin? Insert whatever answer you have for a god, and it actually makes more sense as applied to a multiverse.
    Maybe the same thing that made some random acts inimical to god's character. The laws of physics are a lot simpler.
    Q: What did superman say to he-man?

    A: "What point can possibly be gleaned from an inexplicably inserted parable?"
    How? Why?
    I'm not a god. I'm limited by the laws of physics.
     
  9. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    Figure conscience is imaginary, do you?
    You'd have to ask Him.
    I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.
    As I just told you, that never happened.
    Nothing random about them, obviously.
    The relevance of this observation would be a complete mystery even if you were remotely qualified to render such an assessment.
    If you ever develop any affinity for God's character, you may begin to understand. Until then, you'll avoid understanding like the plague.
    Then I'd say it's pretty retarded to claim to be able to design a universe. Wouldn't you?
     
  10. Etbauer

    Etbauer Banned

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    In other words, if a god can just simply spring into existence with no rhyme or reason, then it's even more likely that a universe can spring into existence for no reason, and once again, there is no need for a god.
    So, the argument seems to be "if you just believed, then you would believe." And I understand that because there probably isn't any reasoning that could make homosexuality a problem that isn't tautological. If we understand it to be based on a superstition written in a book that was made up in a time when people didn't really think things through all that carefully, suddenly, it makes perfect sense. Any other explanation spins in on itself and goes nowhere.
    Nope, were I not constrained by the laws of physics, I absolutely could do better. Anyone pretty much could. What would keep you from doing a better job?
     
  11. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    This has no relevance to anything I said, obviously.
    No doubt it does, to anyone determined to misunderstand my position.
    If building a footbridge across a brook that a ten year old could leap over represented the zenith of my achievements in construction, and I claimed on that basis the ability to build a bridge to the Moon, the arrogance of your claim would exceed that of mine by at least a trillionfold.
    The first thing that would keep anyone but you from doing it would be not knowing how to create spacetime. You presumably being the lone exception, one cannot help but wonder why the hell you're hanging out in this crummy dive rather than going on a worldwide lecture tour and making Newton, Einstein and Feynman look like drooling, slack-jawed imbeciles by comparison.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
  12. Etbauer

    Etbauer Banned

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    I don't believe you have stated your position.
    You don't understand. If I am not constrained by the laws of physics, then the way to create spacetime is exactly the way I say it is made. It doesn't matter if I don't understand the first thing about how anything is actually done in this universe or any other. The way things work in the universe I create is exactly how I say they are. I don't even need to make spacetime. I can make everything perfect, because I get to determine what perfect is. Everything that presents a problem in our world is a consequence of the laws of physics. With that constraint removed, there is nothing holding me back from anything.

    Furthermore, there is the issue of omniscience. If we add that in to the mix (and even if you argue that a god is not omniscient, that is a hard argument to make), the situation is even more intractable. Were I omniscient, then even if there were some other force out there, I would know how to get around it. Also, the entire endeavor would be pointless since I already know everything that will happen as a result of anything I do (which also is another paradox since what happens is entirely up to me anyway). And, incidentally, I would absolutely know how to make spacetime.
     
  13. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    That is all good, but in that case why close relatives are excluded?
    E.g. granddaughter is taking care for there grandmother. Assuming sex and procreation is not relevant to marriage, should not they have the same right as homosexual partners?
    Yes, they should, but government bans them from benefits extending those benefits ONLY to homosexuals.
    That is unconstitutional.
     
  14. Empress

    Empress Well-Known Member

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    Sure, a lot of things are perversions from the intended use of the person, be it that or obesity or whatever.
     
  15. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    That what ware talking about here, it is legal but it is unconstitutional, since it violates basic principles of equality.
    Yes, laws can be legal and unconstitutional i.e. special rights provided to group of people without any kind of justification.
     
  16. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Like what ? All laws are constitutional, until challenged. Anything that overt, has in all likelihood been challenged.
     
  17. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    I am talking about equality and constitutional principles.
    If you provide benefits for no reason to one particular group, you should provide same benefits for all other groups that are equal to the first group. If sex and procreation has no relevance to marriage (according to you and other gays) then marriage should be available to any two people.
     
  18. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    That’s just your opinion. The opinion of the courts has been, it is constitutional.
     
  19. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    E.g. Affirmative Actions laws violates constitutional principles providing special privileges based on race and gender.
     
  20. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    No. We have age limits and other qualifications that have nothing to do with homosexuality/heterosexuality.
     
  21. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    You speak like you know more then the supreme court which has already ruled on these matters. You saying something violates the constitution is just your uneducated opinion.
     
  22. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    I do not care about court. Court is a corrupt institution that is serving special interests.
    We are discussing this issue among people, so the court has no relevance.
    Since no one has ever provided justification for special privileges those laws that you are referring to are illegal.
     
  23. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    But you and Trump aren’t corrupt ? Is that it ?
     
  24. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I know more then supreme court, since I my brain, at least at this moment, is neither corrupted nor damaged.
    Judges in supreme courts serve special interests, so their opinion have zero value.
     
  25. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Amazing.
     

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