Electric Cars

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Just A Man, Oct 10, 2019.

  1. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    There are always options. You could use porta potties and truck in water I guess.
    I could use aluminum wire, but they won't let me do that either.
    More expensive? When it pays for itself in 6 years and I can finance it in the cost of the house for $30 a month?
     
  2. Russ103

    Russ103 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You could, but you wouldn’t. So that’s not a realistic, or smart option. So why bring it up?

    If Solar was half as good as you think, utility companies would own thousands of acres of solar farms, and sell electricity to the public while making a profit. There’s no arguing with that. Now, why don’t they?
     
  3. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I can stop and fill up in less than 10 minutes. I have had to evacuate several times Ivan and Katrina the last two. 180 miles to where I had family to stay with, hotels all booked. Again when you are constantly moving is where the electric gets it's limited range. It is stop start almost the entire way. THAT is what drains the battery and you can't just pull into someplace and get an immediate recharge. And again turn on the AC and run all your accessories and even less range. It such a situtation the LAST thing I want is an EV.
     
  4. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    Power plants can't store it (yet).
    When you do it you don't have that problem.
     
  5. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I cited it in another thread a few months ago about the AOC green deal that just to run the subway system in NYC it would require a solar farm SIX TIMES the size of Central Park and that did not include for storage for when the sun don't shine. Just the subways.
     
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  6. Russ103

    Russ103 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And when they can, they will. Again, free market supply/demand will win the day.

    You want solar panels? Go for it. But don’t support making them mandatory because you think it’s best for everyone.
     
  7. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    That one only cost you 1/2 cent.
    Buy a good one and you would have more than enough range.
    Electric cars do well in stop and go. It's called regenerative braking.
     
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  8. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Because the BLM is providing 285 THOUSAND ACRES of land for solar energy.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_the_United_States

     
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  9. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    And where does the power come from you are storing? What happens when you have 3 days of heavy overcast in the winter months?
     
  10. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    There is STILL an energy loss and it is that starting that drains the battery and electric cars use electricity just sitting there too.

    "It is important to realize that on its own, regenerative braking isn’t a magical range booster for electric vehicles. It doesn’t make electric vehicles more efficient per se, it just makes them less inefficient. Basically, the most efficient way to drive any vehicle would be to accelerate to a constant speed and then never touch the brake pedal. Since braking is going to remove energy and require you to input extra energy to get back up to speed, you’d get your best range by simply never slowing down in the first place...
    ....a number of Tesla drivers have reported back energy contribution data using different data tracking apps. Model S drivers have reported recapturing as much as 32% of their total energy use while driving up and then back downhill. This would effectively increase a 100 mile car’s range to 132 miles, for example. A Model S P85D owner reported approximately 28% energy recapture (forum in Danish) and still others have reported recapturing between 15-20% of their total kWh usage on average during normal trips."
    https://electrek.co/2018/04/24/regenerative-braking-how-it-works/

    You're stretching now.
     
  11. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    Your power comes from the sun of course.
    When you need power in the shade you get it from the grid.
    [​IMG]
     
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  12. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    The whole hurricane argument is a stretch. :)
     
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  13. Nonnie

    Nonnie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But you would think that but electricity is now more dearer due to renewable energy. Also, the EU forced the UK government to slap 5% vat on electric, gas and oil to pay for renewables.

    I decided to run the house purely on electric, my bill shot up to £200 per calendar month, £2,400 per year. I would buy oil every 8 months at £280 and electric was £76 per month, so that equates to £1,332 per year.

    So solely being on electric cost £1,068 more per year. If you had a free source of wood and a back boiler as well, you could save even more.

    Actual experience tells me that electric is too dear. And if the alarmists up the cost of oil and coal to make them dearer than electric, then people will suffer big style.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2019
  14. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Most of them are either eccentrics, or "want to do my part" Progressives who got heavy solar subsidies from their local government.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2019
  15. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, the irony is the more they jack up prices and convert the public electric grid to renewable energy, the more you "save" when you convert your own home to solar.

    All it's really doing is changing the relative price difference. It appears to be cheaper to have your own solar than to pay a public utility company to have the solar panels.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2019
  16. Nonnie

    Nonnie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Precisely why wind turbines only turn a fraction of the time, if the demand is not there, they're shut off because you can't store the electricity. If everyone relied on electric, what happens when the wind doesn't blow? All this renewable energy is a farce.
     
  17. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Funny how a portion of the electric power in homes is still coming from fossil fuels, at the same time we're saying it's a good idea to get electric cars on the road.

    That's basically burning fossil fuels to create electric power (10% loss), to transmit through power lines (15% loss), to charge a battery (20% loss), to power an electric motor (10% loss), to power a car.
    How is that an efficient thing to do?
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2019
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  18. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    I could question a few of your numbers, but no need.

    Cost of gas - 6X natural gas.
    Higher efficiency of electric 3X.

    Fun factor - priceless.
     
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  19. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Makes no sense. If you burn fossil fuel, you have to turn that movement into electric power, then convert it back into movement.

    An engine in a car, in a sense, is comparable to the steam turbine in a fossil fuel powered generation plant.

    Cars can be modified to burn natural gas too. (Though it's easier for larger vehicles like trucks)
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2019
  20. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you like running over blind people.
     
  21. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    That happens when the percentage of renewables gets high like it is in the UK.
    Build some storage.
     
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  22. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    There's this magic grid of excess electricity out there? What is that excess capacity doing when it is not feeding a solar system that can't provide power, just sitting there losing money for the owners? And then of course the transmission loses. And again the sun only shines half the day and only half that at the intensity to power your solar panels fully. So that is has to be three times bigger so you can be charging those batteries while you are generating power or given it will be during night time twice as big.
     
  23. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    And of course time to get rid of this

    The Electric-Vehicle Subsidy Racket
    The $7,500 tax credit is going to many buyers who don’t qualify.

    Federal subsidies for electric vehicles are an income transfer to the affluent, and now comes news that significant numbers don’t qualify. The Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration (Tigta) in late September reported that the feds handed out nearly $74 million to undeserving EV owners from 2014 through 2018.

    “The [Internal Revenue Service] does not have effective processes to identify and prevent erroneous claims,” said Tigta, meaning filers are applying for credits largely on an honor system. Between confusion over how the credits work and outright fraud, the government is getting fleeced.

    Tigta says that of the 239,422 EV credits claimed and received during 2014-2018, it identified 16,510 as potentially erroneous. The numbers could be higher since Tigta used samples of filers who claimed the credit. A significant portion of the Tigta report is redacted for what it calls “law enforcement” reasons, suggesting the feds are either investigating some of this for fraud, or trying to discourage other EV owners from exploiting the system.
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-electric-vehicle-subsidy-racket-11570834263

    And put a $60 excise tax on all tires going on electric vehicles to be added to the gas taxes ICE cars already pay to fund roads and bridges and upkeep.


     
  24. Nonnie

    Nonnie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What would you estimate the cost would be for batteries, how many would be needed for the UK and how long will they last if there's no wind, assuming solar can't keep up.
     
  25. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Storage is very expensive.

    Most people don't realize with large amounts of electric power it's much much easier to transmit it through power lines than to store it.

    Many power engineers and economists have described storage as impractical.

    For the price of a storage facility, you could build 10 power plants.

    But thinking about money and costs doesn't matter to people like you.

    Stupid greenies have wasted tax money on storage when it could have been more effective building more renewable generation.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2019

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