It is time to ask ourselves, is Trump acting like a Russian puppet?

The topic is influences on Trump -



"This has nothing to do with bankruptcy, and you may recall Putin wanted Trump to be our President. Putin got his wish, and somehow you say he isn't involved".

This was in response to my claim that Trump the folks who bailed Trump out of Bankruptcy have a whole lot of influence on Trump - giving the Quit Pro Quo appointment of Wilbur Ross and example. The dude that Bailed Trump out -while working for one of the big money interests that run this nation -being appointed commerce secretary.

Obviously you don't know what an argument is - an argument consists of 1) statement of claim and 2) something which proves or shows that claim is true.

You make no attempt to back up your claim - nor do you address anything in my post that is contrary to that claim. Your post is the equivalent of putting hands over ears and crying "NO NO NO"

You then followed up this nonsense comment - with a bunch of name calling, strawman fallacy - accusing me of things I didn't say - and various other demonization tactics.

In this latest post you on about stuff that has nothing to do with examples of Trump actions that show he was influenced by Russia - finally bringing up one thing - claiming the pulling the troops out of Syria was an example of Trump trying to appease Putin .. as if there are no other reasons to get out of Syria.

How is getting our few hundred troops out of Syria a "National Security Threat"
How does this pose serious problems for western democracies

Turkey is going to make war on the Kurds - regardless of whether or not we pull our few hundred troops out - and are doing so despite the fact that our troops are still there. They told us they were going in and that is what they did.

You are correct on the betrayal of an ally - the 8th time we have betrayed the Kurds (they should know better). Your claim that the Kurds destroyed the ISIS caliphate is misleading. It was mostly Russia and Assad's army that destroyed Al Qaeda and ISIS in Syria.

You then follow with this.

Just because Russia might benefit from our stupidity .. does't mean we should continue on in stupidity.

 

Helsinki, July 16, 2018 Trump, in a stunning rebuke of the US intelligence community, declined to endorse the US government's assessment that Russia interfered in the 2016 presidential election, saying he doesn't "see any reason why" Russia would be responsible.

"I have great confidence in my intelligence people, but I will tell you that President Putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial today," Trump said during a joint news conference after he spent about two hours in a room alone with Putin, save for a pair of interpreters.

 

It beats me why you insist on making a fool of yourself. You are wasting my time.

I started this thread. I wrote the the title, which provides a hint as to the topic of this thread. Is Trump acting like a Russian puppet?

I then wrote the OP which provides a basis for that topic, a basis no Trump supporter has challenged, including you.

Obviously, as a Trumpet, you wanted desperately to change the subject because the basis is solid.

Obviously, as the author of the thread, the topic of the thread is what I say it is.

I ignored the rest of your post for the following reasons: A) I have already answered the questions you asked. All you have to do is read. B) You are off topic.

 

That is a lie. Assad's army wanted to destroy the Syrian rebels, not ISIS, and the Russians helped their ally with air support. That is partly the reason why I said that Trump's retreat order benefited the Russians. He opened the door for the Turks to annihilate the Kurds, thus enabling the elimination of one of Assad's rivals.

Yeah, you don't want to hear that. You want to talk about bankruptcies.

 

You are the one doing what you accuse me of "making a fool of yourself"

You a call me a fool for a post that addressed "Influences on Trump" - stomping your feet and claiming "This is not the topic"

Stating that the topic is "Trump acting like a Russian Puppet" = Russia is influencing Trump. = Influences on Trump

You had used the claimed that Trump pulling the troops out of Syria was an example that showed Trump was - acting like - a "Russian" Puppet -

Obviously - if there other possible influences - possibilities that are not "Russia Russia" - this is relevant to the conversation - and I mentioned some possible other influences.

What is foolish is not considering other relevant possibilities - and going around pretending a claim is true - when those possibilities have not been considered.

 

Part of it is that when Trump denied Russian interference in our election he tried to blame the interference on Ukraine

Also of course the Russian invasion of Crimea comes into play. . Trump withholds military aid to stop the Russians unless Ukraine fabricated dirt and Biden and surprise, surprise Putin wins again with help from his puppet, Trump.

 

You can run around in a circle crying "Lie Lie" all you like - that does not make something a lie.

You say "Assad's army wanted to destroy the Syrian Rebels" - A fact

What is also a fact is that ISIS was a major part of the Syrian Rebels ... so all you have done here is caught yourself in a lie.

Your claim that Russia and the Syrian Army did not fight against ISIS - betrays how little you know about the conflict in Syria.

You have bought into the false propaganda narrative that we are there to defeat ISIS - and your mind can't manage to wrap itself around the fact that for most of the war - we were arming and supporting ISIS - on the same side of the war in Syria .. Allies - and also with Al Qaeda/Al Nusra - which is ISIS with a different name when it comes down to it.

Now you are grasping - and because you don't know much about the conflict - you make up stories that have no basis in fact.

The FSA was partly composed of ISIS and Al Nusra - and other groups of the same ilk... the supposed "Moderate Rebel Group" "NO NO .. it can't be true". Indeed it is true .. Obama's "Moderate Rebel Lie" was just that .. a lie - a propaganda narrative that you unquestionably gulped down.

The FSA was taken over by radicals within a year after it was formed ..

Syria 2014, FSA "moderate rebel" General Declares Support for ISIS/ISIS & Al Nusra



Please name the major cities in Syria - one's controlled by ISIS and/or Al Qaeda - cities in which formerly controlled by the radicals - but were taken back .. that were not taken back by Russia and Syria ? other than Raqqa ? Which was taken back in 2017 by the SDF/US - after ISIS and Al Qaeda were mostly defeated.

Prove your claim - back up your " its a Lie ... its all Lies" comment.

 

I beg to differ. Trump's betrayal of an invaluable ally is quite interesting, so is his pending impeachment. You apparently agree with my analysis. You haven't challenged a thing I have said. You must think Trump is acting like a Russian puppet. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that.

At least you are smart enough not to use Trump's statements in defense of Trump. He incriminates himself, and makes himself look like a fool.

 

You didn't say anything to challenge and your ability to discern what others think is sorely lacking.

 

“We have not abandoned the Kurds. Nobody greenlighted this operation by Turkey,” secretary of defense, Mark Esper said.

Gen. Mark Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, wants to make sure none of our troops get hurt as a result of the military action directly related to Trump's order to retreat.

“The Turkish military is fully aware, down to explicit grid coordinate detail, of the locations of U.S. forces,” Milley said. “Everyone is fully aware that we are the U.S. military we retain the right of self defense.” Gee, really, after betraying an ally. How did this guy make general? A suck-a$$ to Trump?

As a military offensive by Turkey into Syria enters its third day, aid agencies are increasingly concerned. An estimated 100,000 civilians in northeastern Syria have been displaced, at least one displaced-persons camp was relocated out of the line of fire, a front-line hospital was abandoned and critical water infrastructure was taken out of commission, according to the United Nations. All of this is exacerbating a humanitarian crisis that was already one of the world's worst.

Trump's response is beyond comprehension. “So what we have is really two choices: You have the choice of bringing in the military and defeating everybody again, or you have the choice of financially doing some very strong things to Turkey. ... We have a very good relationship with the Kurds. Or we can mediate. I hope we can mediate.”

Trump continues to have a problem with reality. What a pathetic response from an American President. Putin is delighted.

The death toll attributed to Trump's dishonorable decision is at least 38 civilians since the start of the assault, according to the Observatory. It said 81 Kurdish fighters had been killed in the clashes.

Kurdish forces long allied with the United States in Syria announced their alliance with the murderous dictator, Bashar al-Assad, a sworn enemy of Washington, and Assad's ally, Russia. This is an unintended consequence of Trump's order to withdraw the American military from northern Syria.

Trump's dishonorable decision drove an American ally into the arms of America's enemy and Trump's mentor, Vladimir Putin.

 

Yup, and Trump moved our troops out of the way so they wouldn't get hurt.

Our Trump lapdog Secretary of Defense Mark Esper is saying exactly what Trump wants him to say, screw the confusion among his commanders, screw the moral of the troops who are ordered to retreat, and screw an invaluable ally, the Kurds.

"And so we find ourselves, we have American forces likely caught between two opposing advancing armies, and it's a very untenable situation," Esper said. "So I spoke with the president last night, after discussions with the rest of the national security team, and he directed that we begin a deliberate withdrawal of forces from northern Syria."

Esper fails to mention it is the President who placed our troops in this situation, and, of course, the President orders another retreat because the un-military C-in-C to stupid to understand that neither the Turks nor the Syrians will fire on American troops. He doesn't know that our troops were a buffer to prevent what is happening now.

Esper knows that, but the sycophant wants to keep his job. That means mimicking Trump rather than being faithful to the troops and our country. As soon as the new President takes office on Jan. 20, 2021, Esper will be fired ... if he lasts that long.

Turkey has accomplished what the Russians wanted all along. The Turks and Trump removed U.S. troops from Syria. Putin is pleased.

 

Trump bowed to a second rate military power, Turkey, because he wanted to aid his mentor, Vladimir Putin. He offered this ludicrous excuse for his decision, but, then, he is not too bright.

Trump defended the withdrawal, saying “endless wars must end.” There was no fighting until Trump moved our troops out of the way so Turkey could annihilate the Kurds.

"It was “very smart” not to be involved in the fighting along the Turkish border," he added. Is Trump so stupid that he doesn't realize his decision began the fighting? This was meant for his base. They will believe him.

“We want to bring our troops back home and I got elected on that,” Trump said. That doesn't make it a good idea. 75% of American voters did not vote for Trump.

Trump is catching hell from Republicans in Congress, including his good friend, Graham.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell urged Trump to reconsider his “precipitous withdrawal” of U.S. troops from Syria, arguing that ISIS and other terrorist organizations “remain dangerous forces in Syria and the ongoing Syrian civil war poses significant security and humanitarian risk.”

McConnell, R-Ky., continued, “I urge the president to exercise American leadership to keep together our multinational coalition to defeat ISIS and prevent significant conflict between our NATO ally Turkey and our local Syrian counter-terrorism partners.”

Putin is extremely pleased with Trump.

 

I am not going to waste my time debunking your post. That is exactly what you want me to do so that I stay away from the Trump/Putin relationship, which is the main issue of this thread.

Sorry, it didn't work.

 

The death toll attributed to Trump's dishonorable decision is at least 38 civilians since the start of the assault, according to the Observatory. It said 81 Kurdish fighters had been killed in the clashes.

Kurdish forces long allied with the United States in Syria announced their alliance with the murderous dictator, Bashar al-Assad, a sworn enemy of Washington, and Assad's ally, Russia. This is an unintended consequence of Trump's order to withdraw the American military from northern Syria.

Only the totally ignorant Trump could order economic sanctions on a nation involved in an armed invasion of a neighbor. Geez, he is embarrassing. Can Trump be removed for incompetence?

The Post reports, "The Trump administration called on Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan to implement an immediate cease-fire in northern Syria and imposed sanctions against Turkey on Monday in response to its military aggression, as the situation on the ground continued to deteriorate after President Trump’s decision to withdraw U.S. forces.

"Pence said that Erdogan and Trump spoke by phone on Monday and that the president “communicated to him very clearly that the United States of America wants Turkey to stop the invasion, to implement an immediate cease-fire and to begin to negotiate with Kurdish forces in Syria to bring an end to the violence.'"

Is this a joke? Trump thinks all of man's problems can be solved with rhetoric. He thinks talking will stop an armed invasion. Erdogan is probably laughing his fool head off.

Let's see if I have this right. Trump orders a retreat of American forces. Immediately Turkey invades Syria to annihilate the Kurds they regard as terrorists. As casualties mount, the Kurds decide they will ally themselves with the Syrian army, Assad's army, and they both will attack the Turks. This is all because of the uninformed, un-military Trump ordered a retreat.

And now he wants all sides to talk? Trump wants the Turks to "negotiate with Kurdish forces in Syria to bring an end to the violence." Isn't that a lot like Trump negotiating with Al Qaeda? That is a bad example. He probably would if it resulted in a photo op.

The sanctions are aimed at Turkey’s ministries of defense and energy, as well as three senior Turkish officials. Among them was the interior minister, a powerful position responsible for domestic security. It will take weeks for the sanctions to take effect.

The totally incompetent C-in-C does not know one cannot stop an armed invasion with economic sanctions. An illicit military force must be met with overwhelming military force. Then you talk about a cease fire, not before.

The SecDef knows that, and the chairman of the joint chiefs know that. But they won't say anything. They don't have the balls. Milley and Esper are concerned our troops might get hurt, and, of course, the draft dodging President wouldn't order use of military force anyway.

He prefers economic sanctions.

This is combined with chaos in Washington and an impeachment inquiry. What a mess. Putin is pleased.

 

Where is Trump's support? Nothing? Great, I like having free hand.

 

Russia and the US were both urging the Kurds to seek help from Damascus - This is now what has happened.

Thanks be to Russia and Syria for helping us out of this mess that we created.

 

You have no ability to debunk my post - so you run and hide from reality because the truth does not fit in with your "Putin/Trump" nonsense narrative.

 

You have no idea what is going on. You are baiting Trump detractors with ludicrous remarks.

 

I don't care to debunk your ridiculous post. There are far more important issues than your far right debunked conspiracies. For example:

We know Putin interfered in our 2016 Presidential election because he wanted Trump to become our next President.

We know that Trump's campaign manager, Paul Manafort, had Russian connections, and he is now serving a long prison sentence. Trump's deputy campaign manager, Rick Gates, also had Russian connections, and he is facing jail time.

Mike Flynn, Trump's NSA for a month, spoke illegally to the Russian ambassador and is facing jail time.

Trump's attorney general, Jeff Sessions, had contacts with the Russian ambassador during the election campaign, once in his office, and he had to recuse himself from the Russian investigation that was taking place from his office.

Trump's son, Trump's son-in-law, and Trump's campaign manager met with four Russian operatives at Trump's home, Trump Tower, in June 2016, for information on Trump's opponent, Hillary Clinton.

Trump attempted to extort the Ukrainian president to get him to dig up dirt on a political opponent, Joe Biden. This caused an impeachment inquiry.

The mission of any righteous Russian puppet would be to create chaos at the highest level of the federal government. Recently, the Trump White House sent a letter to the House of Representatives telling the leadership they must have a full House vote on the impeachment of the President.

You can't get any more chaotic than that.

Two Soviet-born, naturalized American citizens, Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, who had been helping Trump's lawyer investigate Joe Biden in Ukraine, were arrested by the FBI. They had one-way tickets on a flight out of the country.

They were arrested shortly after having dinner with Rudy Giuliani, Trump's personal lawyer.

Trump's decision to order a retreat of American troops from northern Syria, gave Turkey a green light to annihilate the Kurds whom they regard as terrorists. His decision caused a national security threat for our country, and poses serious problems for the Western democracies, not to mention the betrayal of a valuable American ally that had destroyed the ISIS caliphate.

The Pentagon, members of Congress including the vast majority of Trump's party, and the American people are aghast at the dishonorable, incredulous decision Trump made. However, apparently the decision suited his purposes.

Trump's surrender to Turkish intents does not serve America's interests. Indeed, his decision has endangered our national interests, and there is only one conclusion a person can make. As long as Trump is President, America cannot be trusted.

On the other hand, other nations do benefit from Trump's decision. They include Turkey, of course; Syria and its murderous dictator, Bashar al-Assad; Syria's ally, Iran.

And Russia!

 

@Sandy Shanks just wants us to be the world police while NATO stands by and does nothing. He should ask why that is.

 

Yes thank goodness this question has finally been raised.

Oh man, made myself laugh again.

 

Now you want NATO involved in Trump's fiasco? That's not very bright. Things are bad enough as it is without involving the military forces of NATO.

 

It concerns Europe more than the US so...

 

Without a doubt, Trump is the dumbest President in American.

Trump has sanctioned Turkey for its Syria invasion, a little more than a week after appearing to give Ankara the go-ahead to launch its long-planned operation.

Trump issued an executive order on Monday that imposed penalties on three Turkish officials and two ministries for their role in the incursion into Syria. The president also announced in a statement Monday that he was reimposing steel tariffs of 50 percent on Turkey and would halt trade negotiations with the country immediately.


“Turkey’s military offensive is endangering civilians and threatening peace, security, and stability in the region,” Trump said in a statement. “I have been perfectly clear with President [Recep Tayyip] Erdogan: Turkey’s action is precipitating a humanitarian crisis and setting conditions for possible war crimes.”

https://www.vox.com/world/2019/10/15/20915418/trump-sanctions-turkey-syria-invasion-kurds

First he opens the door to the Turkish invasion of Syria to annihilate the Kurds whom they regard as terrorists. Then he slams the door shut because Turkey invaded Syria.

Were the humanitarian crisis Trump created so tragic, this would be funny. Trump is clueless.

But it is tragic, and it not funny.

The immature, naive, and gutless President now thinks Erdogan will be persuaded by sanctions, which takes weeks to have an effect, and meaningless rhetoric. Erdogan will do what he intended to do when Trump invited the invasion.

Who also benefits from Trump's retreat order from Syria? The murderous dictator, al-Assad, a sworn enemy of the U.S., and Vladimir Putin, who will move Russia into the vacuum created by Trump.

Now that is dumb.

 

Meh @Sandy Shanks just wants to be in an endless war in the ME for no good reason other than feelings.