I can't be friends with political opponents

This absolutely nails it. Trump was never a political issue. It is personal; deeply personal and at the core of real patriotism. The trump movement is an attack on the Constitution and all that Americans have valued. And this isn't hyperbole. These are the facts whether you understand that or not.




There is no reason to pretend this is still one nation. Support the right of secession. Eliminate most of the Federal Government. And most of all, eliminate the office of President. Trump has proven it is too dangerous to be allowed to exist.

If we can't agree to anything else, can't we at least agree to end the US without a civil war? The South has wanted to secede since 1861. Texas has wanted to secede; even discussed by the Governor. Red States have hated Blue States for as long as I can remember. For reasons I never understood, we in California knew that people in many States hated us because we live in California. WTF? And there are even movements to have white-only States.

So who are we kidding? The real irony is that Blue States contribute to most of the GDP and wealth of the nation. But I for one would love to be free of the tyrannical influence of people like trump and sessions. And if righties hate us so much, screw em. We don't need them. California alone is the sixth largest economy in the world.

 

Other than that he’s the greatest leader in the history of the world!

 

You probably employ them, though. The mechanics, plumbers, electricians, a/c repairmen, etc. form Trumps base. They haul away your trash, fix your roof, and pave your driveway.

I suppose you are hoping to replacing them with Mexicans, which is what got Trump elected in the first place.

 

Sure, go ahead and secede.

But that letter is as ridiculous as it is hateful. It doesn't "nail" anything. It encapsulates everything leftists hate about tradition and capitalism.

"The Trump movement is an attack on the Constitution." LOL. That's Rachel and Chuck talking.

Trump got millions of votes from people who would have preferred Romney, Kasich, or Paul, but as between him and Hillary Clinton, who would not even have tried to do anything about lost jobs in the heartland or a border leaking like a sieve, yeah it was easy.

But I agree that we are now two separate nations and am glad to wish you a hearty farewell.

 

Remember the volunteer working on his campaign and Trump heard about his familie's money woes? He cut him a 10K check.

 

Apropos of the broadsides against the right made in this thread:


The Gotham of the movie [Joker] is late 1970’s New York, a toilet of pornography and violence. I lived there. I remember it. It was, like today’s crap-strewn and disintegrating San Francisco, a city the left made. A city that put the tender loving care of criminals above the safety of decent citizens. A city that would not get the homeless off its streets. A city that would not restrict or condemn pornography and prostitution on its main thoroughfares. Its lawmen were handcuffed by left-wing Supreme Court decisions that made it harder to investigate and prosecute the bad guys. And journalists were silenced by racial “sensitivity” because a lot of the people committing the crimes were black and no one wanted to seem racist.

So the city went to hell. Leftist hell.

The Daily Wire

 

You have a story of Trump doing something for apparently unselfish reasons! Its 37 years old and its a pretty lonesome story, but it suggests that Trump is not a sociopath because sociopaths don't do unselfish things. I applaud him for allowing his jet to be used in 1988 to save an 11 year old jewish boy's life.

 

Probably a good idea if his/her Proggy friends ask THEMSELVES that question also .. dontcha think? I mean, 'it's a hard introspection to make, because it means they'll need to challenge their fundamental assumptions', but as you suggest .. it's a super good move!

Or .... is it all one way? Like religion?

 

Good for you (my bold). That's the direction we should all be going. And Trump is a blip in time .. don't waste too much energy on that. Don't burn bridges because of him.

 

When you take a religious or ideological approach to such things, you can reduce people to cartoonish black or white, evil or good. Having said that, even if Trump were the impossible - pure evil, in the cartoonish sense - he'd STILL be mortal, limited, and a moment in time. That's the other failing of taking an infantile approach .. morphing mortals into eternals. Deities of hate.

 

I agree. It's a great shame then, that those most willing to shed friends over politics tend to be on the Left. Some even divorced after the election of Trump. Some shunned their own families. And many threatened to leave America .. which is the equivalent of shunning everyone in their life.

 

I go a step further - I let them rant, and volunteer myself as patsy. They enjoy that. They get to educate me

 

Interesting. I'm seeing the same thing in reverse, and I'm not even in America. People (negatively) obsessed with Trump and/or the local incarnation.

 

Good on you for not being precious about it. Wish more would follow suit.

 

Your final sentence said it all. Ugly is in the eye of the beholder. I think it behoves us as civil and kind humans, to know those things about our fellows, but not allow them to colour our view of the entire person. If someone with 'ugly' views is cordial, cooperative, and will help pay your hospital bills, then it follows that that person is not 'ugly'.

PS: The refusal to accept that most people are reasonable, kind, and decent - and therefore have reasonable, kind, and decent reasons for holding views others may find 'ugly' - is the specific failure here.

 

My older sister got on facebook a few years ago so she could communicate with her son and grandchildren on a regular basis. Soon thereafter she became a radical anti-Trumper, breaking out and crying about it sometimes. My oldest brother is much the same way, spends all of his time watching PBS, then bitches and complains about all things Trump.

I never respond back to them when they go on their rants. I just listen in silence until it's over, then try to engage in some unrelated topic with them.

I blame a lot of the divide on social media. It pollutes the mind, especially those vulnerable to such things.

 

I know someone who was so bad (Trump-Hating addiction) that she would post all day, every day. Spent her days trawling MSM for bites, and sharing them. She actually ended up on meds, that's how bad it was. She had done the same with a previous leader in this country, who was famous for his religious beliefs and conservatism. Very VERY obsessive. The oddity is that she has never done this about leaders she actually likes .. when she likes them she ignores them, pretty much. Mind you, she's not the only person I've seen go down that sad path since 2016 .. though she is the worst.

As a keen observer of the human condition, I feel justified in saying this stuff is unprecendeted. It's definitely cult-behaviour, but in reverse. Cult behaviour doesn't have to be FOR the central figure .. the very same emotions and psych mechanics are involved when it's AGAINST a specific figure. The difference is in the triggering of the uncontained emotions. In this case, it's looking more and more likely the genesis was in the acute humilation of getting it so very very wrong. There was a dangerously high level of hubris (on the part of all those so sure Trump couldn't win) leading up to the election. Acute humiliation can cause very real and very protracted fury, especially in people already fragile in some way.

 

I agree with most of what you said. The only thing I would point out is that while I won't necessarily create a bubble for myself, doing inconsequential things like boycotting parties will help avoid any unnecessary atmosphere of hostility among people and doing this would be a safe way to vent frustration at 'ugly' views.

But yes, I agree with you that we should not let one thing we perceive as 'ugly' color our entire view of a person and we should maintain bridges with being cordial and doing acts of kindness.

 

Why would you feel the need to 'vent', though? What makes you respond so emotionally to what is really a minor difference - and indeed, something we can actually find interesting, given the right mindset. I enjoy listening to my Proggiest friends gallop along on their high horses. I learn, and I find new reasons to love them, in amongst the bumph.

Meantime, I recommend you try to learn more about the reasons for the 'ugly' views, by listening with good grace. I guarantee you'll be surprised, if you currently believe that ugliness of soul is the only possible driver.

 

I wonder if things were this bad when Nixon was in trouble. I think maybe they were ... maybe worse. At least we don't have race riots and a war going on.

 

Correct.

 

I think part of the equation is that Trump won't buckle. He's not even defensive. He is at least pretending to love the noise and fury. And he stays on offense.

He's right when he says very few could stand up to it. I sure couldn't.

 

Trump is trying to divide us and he seems to be doing a good job, when will people realize Trump is in it for Trump and no one else

best just to keep politics and religion to yourself anymore

 

Sure, must be why he donates his salary. It's the rhetoric from the media that stokes division.

 

Trump is like a bully that when someone stands up to then they go on the offensive and attack