Putin's Visit To Saudi Arabia - Hey, what's Going On Here?

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Jeannette, Oct 15, 2019.

  1. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    37,994
    Likes Received:
    7,948
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Is this for real? Have we lost the Middle East? I think so!

    Pres. Putin was greeted at airport by the King and 12 gun salute, while Saudi Jets adorned the sky with Russian colors. There were Saudi guards on horses and Russian police cars with KSA license plates no less.

    The pageantry on the video is lovely. It's long, but if you get to 40:00 you can watch the guards on horseback and also see the beauty of the place. At 53:00 Putin is greeted at the palace.


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    And then there was Obama's visit.

    [​IMG]
    Bow fool, bow!
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Russian President Vladimir Putin’s visit to the United Arab Emirates has been celebrated in a way that could startle even a VIP guest who has seen it all, as it included a horse escort alongside his vehicle and what appeared to be cars from the Russian road police.

    As soon as Vladimir Putin landed at Abu Dhabi Airport, where he was met by Crown Prince Mohammed bin Zayed Al Nahyan, he was not only saluted by gunfire. On his way through the oasis city, which was extensively decorated with Russian and UAE banners, the presidential cortege was welcomed by jets from the country’s air force that painted the sky in the colours of Russia’s national flag: white, blue, and red.

    https://sputniknews.com/viral/201910151077055623-red-carpets-uae-russian-president-putin/
     
    Tim15856, Len_A and Moi621 like this.
  2. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2012
    Messages:
    24,506
    Likes Received:
    7,247
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    They can have it for all I care.
     
    modernpaladin likes this.
  3. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    6,504
    Likes Received:
    1,646
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What is going on? The Saudis are doing what the Israelis have been doing: trying to have Russia on their side too. And the Russians are playing along. So nothing surprising.
     
    APACHERAT likes this.
  4. Capt Nice

    Capt Nice Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Messages:
    9,998
    Likes Received:
    10,217
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Ad Kim and you're got the three amigos with trump despereately clamoring for their approval and acceptance.
     
  5. Canell

    Canell Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2011
    Messages:
    4,268
    Likes Received:
    1,814
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Nothing is going on. If Mr. Trump can visit the KSA and fool around with that palantir, why can't Vladimir Putin do the same? :lol:

    [​IMG]


    Looking forward Margot's response. :bump:

    P.S. The ME belongs to the Muslims, generally speaking. So, you haven't lost anything.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019
    Sallyally, Moonglow and Bush Lawyer like this.
  6. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    38,026
    Likes Received:
    16,042
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Only a 12 gun salute ???

    President Trump received a 21 gun salute when he visited Saudi Arabia which is SOP for Presidents, monarchs and dictators.

    But we are dealing with Saudi Arabia who plays both sides of the game.

    With Vladimir Putin visiting Saudi Arabia, Iran is probably shaking in their boots and peeing in their diapers.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019
  7. bidjo

    bidjo Banned

    Joined:
    May 4, 2014
    Messages:
    378
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    28
     
    Moi621 likes this.
  8. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    6,504
    Likes Received:
    1,646
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Hardly. Iran's relationship with Russia has never been as good as some like to pretend. Indeed, while we had a short term partnership of sorts when we were both fighting the rebels trying to unseat Assad, now days, Iran and Russia are more often found on the opposite side of firefights, disputes and intrigues than found being on the same side. Indeed, we don't have much overlapping interests with Russia. We have rival projects for the gas market in Europe, Turkey and elsewhere. The Russians are on the same side as Saudi Arabia when it comes oil policy, bypassing OPEC and working directly with the Saudis instead. And the Russians are also working with Israel to basically undermine our position in Syria. The only area of overlapping interest between us is when the Russians are also taking heat from the US, but that is not really the case right now as Trump is (witting or unwittingly) going ahead with the "Moscow Project" and policies that (while unpopular with the establishment types in the US) are actually empowering and emboldening the Russians.
     
  9. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    38,026
    Likes Received:
    16,042
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    Who is "we" ???

    Assad wants Iran out of Syria.
    Putin wants Iran out of Syria.
    Israel wants Iran out of Syria.
    America wants Iran out of Syria,
    Saudi Arabia wants Iran out of Syria.

    If former Trump's sec of Def Gen. "Mad Dog" Mattis and John Bolton had their way America would be in a big conventional war with Iran right now.

    Putin / Russia would be on the sidelines watching, observing, gathering intelligence on American weapons platforms and watching and learning how Americans troops fight today.

    In fact that's what Russia has been doing all along with the Chi-Coms during the first Gulf War (Desert Storm) and in Afghanistan and the second war in Iraq.

    Remember when Obama drew a red line in the sand in Syria and got into a staring match with Putin ?

    Putin moved his super aircraft carrier killer cruiser Moskva into the Mediterranean Sea along with naval intelligence gathering ship hoping that Obama would grow a pair and launch a Tomahawk cruise missile that the Russian Navy would be able to gather information on, on how to defeat the Tomahawk missile.

    But it didn't happen because Obama blinked.

    When President Trump attacked targets in Syria with Tomahawk cruise missiles he fooled Putin by not firing any cruise missiles from surface ships from the Mediterranean Sea but from the Persian Gulf and Red Sea.

    While Russia and Syria waited for the cruise missiles to come from the west, instead they came from the south and east.

    In my opinion I think Trump made a mistake of abandoning the Syrian Kurds.

    The Iraqi Kurds are good Kurds.

    Syrian Kurds are bad Kurds.

    The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

    But President Trump ran on a platform of no more stupid wars.

    Unless America is actually attacked or it's a punitive action war, it's a stupid war.

    Wars of profiteering, wars of pacification and wars of nation building are stupid wars.
     
    Thought Criminal likes this.
  10. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    6,504
    Likes Received:
    1,646
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Assad doesn't want Iran out of Syria. But the rest, yes, they do. Which shouldn't matter, since Iran is in Syria based on the the invitation of its legitimate government. And would be out whenever Assad asks us to leave.
     
  11. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    73,644
    Likes Received:
    13,766
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The Saudis have long standing relationships with Russia since the fall of the USSR.. They built a huge refinery for the Russians a few years back. The Emirates aren't Saudi Arabia, Jeannette.
     
  12. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    73,644
    Likes Received:
    13,766
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Russia and Iran are rivals when it comes to oil and gas.
     
  13. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    37,994
    Likes Received:
    7,948
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    There's a big difference between the US and Russia. Russia was invited in by the elected president Assad, while the US only pretended it was going to fight terrorists, when in reality it was trying to break up Syria as well as overthrow Assad. So let's not compare the two. One manipulates nations for regime change, and the other is an honest broker.

    As for Iran, they keep threatening Israel and trying to turn Syria into a battle ground between them. So of course everyone wants them out. Assad can't say it to them though without looking ungrateful for the help they gave him in defeating ISIS and Al Nusra.

    Assad said if the US leaves, then he will tell Iran to leave. Putin said if Assad wants Russia to leave, then Russia will leave as well - although it's doubtful Assad would ever feel so secure that he would actually do so.

    So tell me now, after Washington destroyed the Middle East and millions were killed what did we gain and what did the world gain? From what I see, before we had started our regime change destructions in Iraq, Libya, Ukraine and Syria, Russia was an inconsequential player and now they are the major player in much of the world.

    Trump wants to make America great again, well maybe he should start with virtue, that way we can be respected again. It helps!
     
  14. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    37,994
    Likes Received:
    7,948
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Oh my God, what a mistake I made. I mistook the one for the other. Thanks for correcting me.
     
  15. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    73,644
    Likes Received:
    13,766
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Actually, you weren't wrong. Putin visited Riyadh.. but, KSA and Russia have had cordial relations for years.
     
  16. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Messages:
    38,026
    Likes Received:
    16,042
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Everyone already knows that except for the low information and misinformed.

    President Obama's third regime change was in Syria to remove Assad from Power.

    Obama's regime changes:

    Regime change #1.
    Egypt.

    Obama throws long time American allie Mubarak under the bus hoping to put the Muslim Brotherhood in power.
    Fail...everything remains the same, the Egyptian army is still in control of Egypt.

    Regime #2.
    Libya.

    Obama arms Al Qaeda to remove America's ally against Al Qaeda and Islamist jihadist.
    Fail...Gaddafi is sodomized and murdered and the Black Flag flies over Libya while Hillary Clinton is high fiving everyone while saying "We came, we saw...he died."

    Regime change #3.
    Syria.

    Obama arms Al Qaeda and his "JV-Team" ISIS.
    Fail...Assad remains in power and Russia wins the first proxy war of Cold War ll.
     
  17. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,706
    Likes Received:
    13,464
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I am surprised at this reaction or perhaps it needs better qualification.

    There are two issues here ..

    1) Losing economic hegemony in General
    2) The specific case of Saudi Arabia.

    2) I have had it with our relationship with Saudi Arabia .. #1 State Sponsor of Terror - and cradle of the radical Salafist ideology that all the really extremist Islamist groups adhere to .. The war in Yemen .. the war in Syria are horrible black marks.

    1) Losing general economic hegemony - is a concern. If it were just Saudi Arabia .. that would be OK .. but the Trump Admin has waged economic warfare on most of the world - at the same time. And stuff is dropping left right and center. To lose Saudi Arabia at this particular time .. is a bit of a game changer - were this to happen.

    I don't think we will go to far from Saudi Arabia -at least not right away. That said - we no longer have the same sway over El Saud due to less dependence on Saudi Crude.

    El Saud "OPEC" accepting payment for oil in general -in some alternative to the US dollar - could be the straw that breaks the back of dollar hegemony .. and that is a concern.
     
    Sallyally and Steady Pie like this.
  18. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Messages:
    63,706
    Likes Received:
    13,464
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Good Post - I think we could add one more to your list - I think Iran might just want out of Syria. Its must be a big drain on limited resources.

    I found your commentary on goading US into showing a few cards - interesting. Russia may have learned a few things about the Tomahawks though the S-400 Systems they have in Syria .. although I think the stuff we launched may have been fairly old technology so there may not have been much to learn.

    No doubt that what you describe is going on - Syria was an opportunity for each side to test stuff and to learn - equipment of both nations in close proximity.


    I don't think Trump did abandon the Kurds .. It is now known that both the US and Russia had been urging the Kurds to make a deal with Damascus for a long time now. Syria is in a far better position - and after all - it is their land. ISIS will not be happy - being imprisoned under Kurdish/US custody is a vacation in comparison to residing in one of Assads "detention facilities for Terrorist"

    Assad is not quite as nice as we are to radical Islamist extremists.

    What were we to do .. Rand Paul (on CNN of all places) said Turkey had told us that they were going in .. told us where and when ..

    Do we
    1) Go to war with Turkey No
    2) Arm the Kurds with tens of thousands of tons of sophisticated No
    3) Leave a few embedded troops in that area (Paul said 50) on a suicide mission. No

    so what then ? 4) move out of harms way and watch from the sidelines ? Then what - 6 months from now - after the slaughter is over - Send our Soldiers back to the Kurds - folks who may just blame us for child, wife, son, daughter, Mother, Father - getting killed ? Sure .. lets do that ?? Is this what the Libs are suggesting ?

    5) Tell them to make a deal with Demascus with Russia mediating.

    Sitting in Syria - is not like sitting in Afghanistan . We are not violating international law by being in a sovereign nation uninvited ... Also in Syria we are going to be investigated - and found guilty - of war crimes - crimes against humanity. It is just a matter of time.

    The war between Assad and the Islamist Jihadist rebel alliance - is over. The only significant ISIS presence left is in area's that "guess who" controls ... USA.

    Time to get out of the way and let Assad/Russia finish the job .. and they can help the Kurds out with Turkey "who is now fielding the remnants of the extremist Islamist Jihadist army against the Kurds.
     
    Tim15856 and APACHERAT like this.
  19. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    6,504
    Likes Received:
    1,646
    Trophy Points:
    113

    You are right about the US, but not Russia. The Russians aren't "honest brokers" and no one invited them in Syria to play the role of "honest broker". They weren't even invited so much by Assad as by Iran, as it was Iran's general Soleimani who flew to Russia and reached an understanding them with them on Russia joining the fight against the 'rebels' trying to oust Assad. In return, the Russians were supposed to have been partners in Syria, with a naval base there, while helping prevent US/Israeli hegemonic forces under the neocons
    from taking over the ME and, thereafter, focus their attention on places like Russia and China. It was a fair deal, but Trump's election (and the "Moscow Project") has left the Russians imagining they can have the whole thing to themselves.


    Show me where Assad (not the Russians) have said any of what you are saying about Iran? Under intense pressure from the Russians, and for good reason, Assad refused to ask Iran to leave. For good reason, because he knows that the Russians can easily have him deposed and replaced by someone else. The same way they are now basically taking out or undermining a host of figures (many close relatives of Assad) in Syria and replacing them with pro Russian figures.

    Listen, even before the Syrian civil war, the Russians had meetings with Assad for the very purpose of convincing him to sever his ties with Iran and the axis of resistance. He refused to do so even then. And Assad is quite aware, as the Russians were almost public about it, that during the numerous conferences ostensibly meant to bring a ceasefire in Syria, the Russians were always ready to strike a deal that would exclude Assad! Almost openly, Russian negotiators won't dangle the prospects of betraying Assad in return for removal of sanctions on Russia and an understanding of Russia's legitimate interests in "near Russia".

    In the meantime, besides Russia's cooperation with Israel when it comes to trying to force Iranian backed militia's out of Syria, here is what "honest broker" Russia is doing in various arenas -- including on just purely economic projects -- in Syria. They include forcibly cancelling economic agreements between Iran and Syria on various projects (Latkia port, telecommunication deals, etc), trying to purge Assad's most trusted and closest family members from their positions (including Assad's own brother as well as Assad's cousin, brother-in-law), and more.

    I will post just some examples of what the Russians are doing in Syria in my next post, starting with something very relevant to Putin's visit to Russia.
     
  20. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    6,504
    Likes Received:
    1,646
    Trophy Points:
    113
    In the world I like to see (which apparently I won't, but hopefully my kids will), the truth (not lies), and true enlightenment (not propaganda) will guide people in their views of things. Otherwise, I am no more interested in peddling propaganda for Iran than I am for Russia or the Americans. As long as the truth is told, and people's views are informed by it, what I have wanted has happened regardless of where the chips may fall.

    https://www.voanews.com/middle-east/russia-iran-maneuver-influence-syria
    Russia, Iran Maneuver for Influence in Syria
    Maher Assad, Bashar Assad's brother, is still the commander of Syria's 4th division. While every other Syrian military unit, along with the force Iran itself created, i.e., Syria's "National Defense Force", has been purged and its leadership put in the hands of pro-Russian figures, going after Maher Assad would be like going after Bashar Assad directly. They haven't done that so far, but they are inching in that direction.

    In the meantime, if you the VOA article above, written a few months ago, you will also notice what the article says about another Assad relative, Rami Makhlouf -- Assad's cousin and brother-in-law who owned the Al Watan newspaper known to reflect Assad's views.

    My guess is that it won't be long before some of the same people who rightly ridiculed the Saudis and their Wahhabi ideology will become sudden apologists for it!

    But, in the meantime, lets see where is Rami Makhlouf now?
    https://www.mei.edu/publications/russia-iran-and-competition-shape-syrias-future
    Russia, Iran, and the competition to shape Syria’s future
    And these reports only show you the tip of the iceberg.
     
  21. Bush Lawyer

    Bush Lawyer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2018
    Messages:
    15,033
    Likes Received:
    9,491
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    From the OP.

    Huh? When did 'you' have the Middle East?
     
  22. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    6,504
    Likes Received:
    1,646
    Trophy Points:
    113
    In the purely economic field, Iran is still Syria's largest trading partner. And while Iran has a host of investments planned in Syria, the Russians are interfering and cancelling one deal after another. This has been going on for a couple of years now but the pace of such activities have grown steadily.

    https://dailybrief.oxan.com/Analysis/DB242846/Iran-Russia-rivalry-for-Syrian-economic-sway-may-grow
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019
  23. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    6,504
    Likes Received:
    1,646
    Trophy Points:
    113
  24. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2016
    Messages:
    11,951
    Likes Received:
    7,714
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Iranian Monitor likes this.
  25. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2015
    Messages:
    6,504
    Likes Received:
    1,646
    Trophy Points:
    113
    These are pictures from when Iran-Russia cooperation was at its height, only a few years ago but almost like another period in time!
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     

Share This Page