Gabbard doubles down on the claim that we armed terrorists such as Al Qaeda

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Giftedone, Oct 15, 2019.

  1. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    https://thehill.com/policy/defense/465996-gabbard-buttigieg-tangle-over-syria

    The Hill mentions Gabbard's accusation but does so in such a way as to avoid the question of whether or not this claim is true.

    Watch how all the other MSM outlets will avoid this "Elephant in the Room" question completely or default to ad hom - some demonization rant claiming Gabbard is a Putin apologist - like the NY-Times did.
     
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  2. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Looks like the MSM are not the only one's who want to avoid this "Elephant in the Room" :)
     
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  3. YourBrainIsGod

    YourBrainIsGod Well-Known Member

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    Might be hard to prove weapons were in fact given to Al-Qaeda, but when dropping a bunch of arms to all these different militant groups is it really surprising they’d end up in the wrong hands?
    Hell, didn’t the Pentagon and CIA fund opposing sides of the civil war?

    Syria is a disaster.
     
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  4. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    We armed Osama Bin Laden and his AlQueda followers when they were fighting the Russians who had invaded Afghanistan.
     
  5. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    She’s right. We did arm AQ and probably ISIS elements. Obama and Hillary did this. We probably didn’t do it on purpose, but that’s where our weapons went.

    She’s telling the truth which I like about her.
     
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  6. ImNotOliver

    ImNotOliver Well-Known Member

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    Reagan armed them.
     
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  7. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Every President since Reagan has been sending arms to that region. That’s no secret.
     
  8. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is the question though - 1) did we arm AQ (and others of the same ilk) in Syria ??

    This is the question that never gets properly asked - or discussed in any detail - just like there was a time when questioning the Iraq war was verboten.

    We are still in the denial/grudging acceptance mode. "Yes .. some of our arms may have gotten into the hands of the bad terrorists - but we didn't intend it"

    Yes we did intend it - and that is a demonstrable fact.


    How America Armed Terrorists in Syria
    Another Middle East debacle
    June 22, 2017

    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/how-america-armed-terrorists-in-syria/


    This is right at the beginning of the war. "Obama refused to provide arms to the opposition" supposedly. Not to many in the press pointing out this lie.

    So who was it that these arms were going to ? (and not just these but the tens of thousands of tons of sophisticated military equipment that poured into Syria throughout many years of this war. With numerous nations states involved - Saudi's and gulf states, Britain and other EU, Bulgaria and other eastern European nations, Turkey, Israel, Jordan .. .. and I have left out a bunch.)

    This was a massive effort.

    So who were all these arms going to ? Hundreds of Tanks, thousands of military vehicles, supplies, a mass amount of military equipment.

    [​IMG]

    Ya don't just put that thing in the back of a pickup and smuggle it across the border .. never mind thousands of them.

    So this was a major and well coordinated effort - over years. You don't just grab a few AK-47's - round up a few buddies - and take on a nation state ... and if it is thousands of buddies - you are going to need a whole lot of heavy stuff.

    So the answer to question "Did we pour all these weapons into Syria - and/or facilitate it" is a resounding Yes.

    Did we know the people we were arming were radical Islamist Extremists ? Is also a resounding Yes.

    Again from declassified DIA documents - this is from 2012.

    http://www.judicialwatch.org/wp-con...12-DOD-Release-2015-04-10-final-version11.pdf

    Its not just Tulsi and the DIA though - Its 13 Bipartisan co-sponsors of the "Stop Arming Terrorist Act"

    https://gabbard.house.gov/news/StopArmingTerrorists

    This don't get much play in the MSM. The question just doesn't get seriously asked - and when it does come up it is almost always "Sin of Omission" - often combined with other false narrative.

    Such as: Obama's "Moderate Rebel Lie" - an obvious attempt to cover up some dirty deeds. That one does not get much coverage either.

    This lie is so laughable - that even Obama's own VP contradicted him.

    https://mideastshuffle.com/2014/10/04/biden-turks-saudis-uae-funded-and-armed-al-nusra-and-al-qaeda/

    And we knew there was no moderate middle long before 2014 (which is around the time the moderate rebel lie came out - when our ISIS dog in Syria went off its leash and went into Iraq in 2014 - this created a problem because we were fighting on the same side as ISIS in Syria but fighting against them in Iraq)

    We know this because of the DIA report linked to above .. from 2012. There were moderates in the protest movement - quickly taken over by the extremists. There was even some moderate presence (but even this is sketchy but will grant) in the first - at most - year of the war.

    These "moderate" groups were fighting in a conflict - where the side they are on is dominated by radical Islamist Jihadists - outnumbering them by a factor of 10 to 1 ? it matters not - After a year this moderate presence is gone. The much touted "FSA - Free Syrian Army" - part of which were defectors from Assad's army - was dominated by Al Qaeda/ Al Nusra ideology - and other groups of the same ilk having the same ideology.

    We knew what side we were on "Radical Islamist Jihadist" - and what ideology we were supporting - to turn Syria into an Islamic State.

    Most of Syria in fact did get turned into a Strict Sharia extremist Salafist Saudi Inspired totalitarian nightmare. Every major city in Syria (sans Damascus) was turned into a strict sharia totalitarian nightmare .. of which the stories of atrocity are countless.

    That is the side we were on. That is the hard reality and what the history books will record.

    The people fighting for Assad were fighting for freedom from Radical Islamist totalitarianism. Its not that they liked Assad much - but compared to the so called "Moderate Rebels" - Assad was a pleasant dream.

    Syria is a secular Muslim Nation - no strict sharia - no death penalty for Adultery, Apostasy, Homosexuality. There is drinking alcohol and dancing in bars. Women wear skirts and proper bathing suits. No need for a mans permission to be educated. Christian Churches - relative freedom of Religion.

    And the Radical Islamist's hate this ... the whole call to Jihad in Syria is ideologically based in the fight against the dreaded "Secularism" -

    And we were on the side of the Jihadists .. using them as a proxy army against the people of Syria who were fighting to maintain their freedom from the nightmare.

    And we did this eyes wide open.
     
  9. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    See Post 8
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019
  10. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Someone armed Obama's JV Team with AK-47's that were traced back to Libya.

    And ISIS sure didn't purchase these M-16's at Dicks Sporting Goods or at Walmart.
    [​IMG]
     
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  11. Esperance

    Esperance Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    John Kerry admitted that a portion of the billions of dollars that were transferred to Iran would end up in the hands of terrorists.

    But Hillary arranged direct transfers of supplies out of Libya.

    https://www.wnd.com/2015/05/declassified-docs-hillary-aided-rise-of-isis/

    And the worst part of the situation is that Hillary knew exactly where is was going and to whom.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019
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  12. Surfer Joe

    Surfer Joe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Everyone knows that Reagan armed the mujajedin against the Russians back in the 80s. Osama was one of his beneficiaries, and we’ve been arming thugs and dictators and overthrowing elected leaders since Ike and the Dulles brothers destroyed Guatemala’s Arbenz in the 50s.
     
  13. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Given that weapons have a tendency to outlast the conflicts that they were manufactured for so it is entirely possible that U.S. weapons have made their way into the hands of Al Queda.

    U.S. Stinger missiles sent by the U.S. to Afghanistan to give the Afghans a means to shoot down Soviet helicopter in the mid to late 1980s ended up all over the place within a few years. It was still the right thing to do (in my opinion) but of course it has had ripple effects.
     
  14. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That he did - not sure what this has to do with Syria though - its a completely different situation. The people we were arming in Afghanistan were fighting for their nation - we were not fighting against the Afghani Gov't - invading a sovereign nation - and violating an international law in doing so. Nor were we arming an insurgency which was fighting against the Afthani Gov't - in violation of international law .. nor were the people we were arming - the terrorist that we were claiming to be fighting against .. including the one's that attacked us on 911 - a decade prior - the ones who we supposedly been at war with for 20 years.
     
  15. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    So? You act like the U.S. should only support choir boys. Like that is even an option. Grow up. Too often in the real world it is more of an issue "they might be bastards but at least they're OUR bastards".
     
  16. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Good writing, G.

    A question for you: Why? Why did Obama do this, in your opinion? I have my own theory. I'd like to hear yours.
     
  17. YourBrainIsGod

    YourBrainIsGod Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the weapons are going to migrate, and that had to be known (otherwise we have the most incompetent intelligence imaginable); this makes our mission in Syria clear: create disorder. Topple the Assad regime with insurmountable chaos.

    Saudi Arabia and Israel have been engaging in similar strategies. At any given time our allies are fighting against one another through some group they’ve sponsored.

    Seems a few are trying to tag this all on Obama, ignoring the massive influx of weapons Trump has sent to Saudi Arabia; do they think Saudis just let these weapons sit somewhere? To be fair, it’s not just the US, many NATO countries like Saudi money. People need jobs, companies need profits, got to keep that war machine going.
     
  18. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have wondered the same - and I don't think there are any definitive answer.

    Foreign policy is dictated by the big money Establishment interests - and this is a complicated game.

    What we can say for sure is that the stated reasons for messing with Syria were "Not" it. We were not there because Assad is a bad guy .. and not there to fight radical Islamist extremism.

    I don't think the idea was to turn Syria into an Islamic State either (although it would appear that way on the surface as that was the side we were supporting) The purpose was to destabilize Syria. The reason we have been in Afghanistan for 18 years is also not "fighting terrorism".

    There is a huge battle going on over the "New Silk Road" - energy corridor into the energy hungry markets of China and India. One of the main route's is through Afghanistan ... so long as the nation is destabilized .. competing interests can not build pipelines.

    This article talks about some of interests competing to build the "new silk road" https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Who-Gains-The-Most-From-The-New-Silk-Road.html

    This article puts the blame for the war in Syria on Pipelines.
    https://www.news.com.au/world/middl...t/news-story/74efcba9554c10bd35e280b63a9afb74

    Occam's razor suggests that the above is the most likely candidate for why we supported the destabilization of Syria.
     
  19. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's true.

    ISIS AK-47's have been traced back to Benghazi Libya.

    It's no secret that Obama was in the gun trafficking business, if not arming the drug cartels in Mexico he was arming Al Qaeda in Libya and ISIS and Al Qaeda in Syria.

    And ISIS sure didn't purchase these M-16's at Dicks Sporting Goods.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  20. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Obama is mostly to blame - as Syria and Yemen happened under his watch. By the time Trump came in the war in Syria was mostly over - with the only remaining ISIS/Al Qaeda strongholds being in the US controlled region. We had then switched from supporting the radical Islamist proxy army - to fighting them in an attempt to cover our backside.

    Trump is to blame for continued support of war crimes and crimes against humanity in Yemen.

    The effort to arm and support the Radical Islamist proxy army included a vast number of nation States - Saudi Arabia, Qatar and numerous other Gulf States, Israel, Jordan, Turkey. It also included the West -- US, the Brits and so on. It also included many Eastern European nations.

    This article details some of the weapons supply lines. https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/how-america-armed-terrorists-in-syria/

    So no .. the US did not do this all by itself - but it was one of the main players in providing and facilitating the arms transfers to the Radical Islamist Jihadist groups - and support in other areas.

    People forget that a few Jihadists with AK-47's can not take on a Nation State - It took a massive effort on the part of numerous nation States to enable these Jihadists to take over most of Syria within a few years.
     
  21. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nor did they purchase hundreds of Tanks, and other equipment such as

    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/how-america-armed-terrorists-in-syria/

    Perhaps some folks do not know what a Howitzer looks like.
    upload_2019-10-17_10-55-46.jpeg

    Quite amazing how the Rebels were able smuggle 400 Howitzers into Syria in their backpacks .. and this was just one shipment.
     
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  22. ArchStanton

    ArchStanton Banned

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    It was the absolute wrong thing to do. If the Soviets had been successful, then we wouldn't have been in Afghanistan for the last 18 years.
     
  23. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And how did ISIS get so many new Toyota pickup trucks ?

    [​IMG]

    And why didn't President Obama allow A-10's or FA-18's to take out this ISIS convoy of brand new Toyota pichup trucks ?
     
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  24. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is a snippet from from the Ron Paul Institute talks about one such convoy that we had in our sights but did nothing.


    http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arc...l-gains-result-from-us-support-of-extremists/
     
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  25. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    If the Soviets had been successful they never would've stopped at Afghanistan. They would've pressed on in the border areas between Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan until they secured their long coveted Indian Ocean port. This would've given them major strategic advantages over the U.S. and rest of the west.
     

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