Trump may come out of this latest Kurd debacle smelling like a rose

Discussion in 'United States' started by Giftedone, Oct 14, 2019.

  1. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    How is the US involved?


    Iraq and China to sign massive financing deal - Iraq Oil ...


    BAGHDAD - Iraq and China are set to finalize a major bilateral agreement that would give investors access to roughly $10 billion worth of financing. The deal is likely to accelerate the pace and widen the breadth of China's involvement in the Iraqi economy , including the energy sector, and provide money needed for reconstruction and infrastructure projects that cannot be funded by the Iraqi budget alone.

    https://www.iraqoilreport.com/news/iraq-and-china-to-sign-massive-financing-deal-38041/
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019
  2. Chester_Murphy

    Chester_Murphy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's an odd homophobic response from an avowed liberal.
     
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  3. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm not talking about that deal... I'm talking about the one that keeps hitting a snag...(the snag may or may not be Persian of origin)

    Iraq close to signing US$53 billion deal with Exxon, PetroChina; denies Iran link
    Read more at https://www.channelnewsasia.com/new...-exxon--petrochina--denies-iran-link-11512016
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019
  4. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Sounds good to me and they will need water injection to keep well pressure up. Meanwhile, the Chinese have signed a sweet deal worth 3 billion dollars with Iraq.
     
  5. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is the best thing to happen since our PNAC driven foreign policy created a more dangerous and less stable ME.

    Finally intelligence based decidions!

    Thank you President Trump!

    A profile in courage . As the powerful war mongering neocons in both parties are besides themselves !
    But trump better watch his bsck. For the CIA can get back at him 6 ways from Sunday as Schumer warned him on national TV not long ago.

    That should have really concerned any legislator and yet dems would be fine with the CIA getting trump . Showing what hatred does to minds. Turns them into irresponsible mush.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019
    ToddWB and Giftedone like this.
  6. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As much as I don't want to blow smoke up Trumps inflated backside - credit where credit is due - get us out of this mess. That said - Trump did not make this decision on his own - as we are led to believe. Behind the scenes factors also had a role - as demonstrated by the OP.

    Both Russia and US were urging the Kurds to work with Damascus - not sure if you saw the prank on Graham - -but he was saying one thing behind the scenes .. and quite another in front of the camera's.

    The CIA is already implicated up to its eyeballs in this war in Syria - they are now in - cover our tracks - damage control - and lets get out of here mode. The war against Assad is over - and our side lost. The Kurds were just a side show distraction anyway. After arming and supporting Al Qaeda/ ISIS and other of the same ilk for years .. but losing that proxy war due to Russian intervention - we needed to fight ISIS for a bit - and the Kurds were a useful dupe.
     
  7. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    More like stinking like the skunk that he is!!!!
     
  8. AndrewEB

    AndrewEB Active Member Past Donor

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  9. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Hmm I thought NATO was a holy sacred bond; "what the allies have joined together, let no man rend asunder" and all that.

    Well I fully support kicking Turkey out of NATO, but that question should be placed to every politician who bleated about our-allies-the-Kurds.
     
  10. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I did not vote for trump but I must give the bastard credit for driving the Kurds and Syria together in their common defense.

    Going counter to the nneocon PNAC foreign policy takes fortitude and a hard head.

    Finally an action backed up by intelligence that is so rare

    Pelosi melted down and stormed out of trump's meeting on Syria. .

    If a president chooses to save American military lived old Nancy loses it.

    Thank you president for standing up fot our volunteer armed forces You broke the cycle of our giving iinternational law the middle finger. ed

    Saving lives distresses both parties badly. Gotta have blood and deaths for our troops or congress gets depressed and cannot get an erection even with viagra.

    Sociopaths and psychopaths rule over us. Having the power to send6oour non elites to their deaths in a non declared war has to be so gratifying to those obsessed with exorcising ultimate power on expendable non elites .
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019
  11. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    2/3rds of Republicans in the house voted to condemn Trump for pullout from the Kurds today. What is Red Establishment up to ?
     
  12. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    The terrorists we funded, armed and facilitated
     
  13. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    Looks to me like Turkey is the terrorists here.
     
  14. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We? Which administration?
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2019
  15. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They will welcome China in but they'll have trouble getting them out. The Chinese are expanding all over the world, they started with Tibet, and you're probably aware of their attitude towards Muslims.

    Trump is right to just back off and watch the Chinese, Russians and Muslims fight it out among themselves. He's made the US energy independent, which he stated when he started the energy program that it was a defensive move.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2019
  16. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No really. They'll turn on any Gay, Woman, or Black who dares to leave the leftist camp.. Whatever morals they have can easily be exchanged for others.
     
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  17. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    What I will recount may all seem from another century, but lets go over where Trump started and where he is now. And then you can figure if the latest spin will help Trump 'smell like a rose'.

    Trump began his presidency by appointing deranged individuals such as General Flynn as part of his national security team, issuing bold 'warnings' to Iran.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/01/iran-trump-michael-flynn-on-notice
    Well, Flynn was soon heading off to jail, although presumably the 'official warning' he had issued remained.

    Then it was time for Trump to make his first foreign policy tour outside of the US. His first stop was Saudi Arabia.
    https://www.france24.com/en/20170520-trump-saudi-arabia-sign-110-billion-arms-deal-counter-iran
    Trump, Saudi Arabia sign $110 billion arms deal 'to counter Iran'
    You then had Mike Pompeo, another "Iran hawk" appointed to replace Tillerson because the latter was supposedly 'weak on Iran', boldly issue 12 set of demands that Iran must fulfill to avoid US sanctions. That was followed with the appointment of the ultra neocon-ultra Iran hawk, John Bolton, as Trump's national security adviser. This was a guy who -- along with Pompeo and others in the pro Israel lobby, including Mitt Romney -- had worked diligently to have a terrorist cult, the MEK, removed from the list of US terrorist organizations (where their names properly appeared for 3 decades) simply because this cult was now doing America's bidding and being used by the Israelis to assasinate Iranian scientists while trying to gain credibility for itself divulging information (mixed with disinformation) on Iran's nuclear program to the public being passed to it by the Israelis. In one of his paid speeches (the actual money is from the pro Israel lobby, with MEK simply the middlemen) to the MEK, he had even promised that they would be celebrating the next Iranian new year in Tehran!

    The list of outrageous threats and bold statements made by Bolton against Iran after he assumed his position as Trump's national security adviser are too long to recite here, but Bolton then engineered with fellow neocons to take the US out of the JCPOA. And with pro Israeli lobbyists like, turned government officials, the US then devised its so-called "maximum pressure" campaign against Iran.

    While those sanctions were being put in place, Bolton pushed for the US to send the aircraft carrier Abraham Lincoln to the region, with the Trump administration issuing warning to Iran to go along with the "show of force":

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48173357
    US sends aircraft carrier and bomber task force to 'warn Iran'
    Iran, of course, laughed off the threat, calling the USS Abraham Lincoln a target, not a threat!

    I don't think I need to review all that has transpired since. Suffice it to say, John Bolton is no longer in the Trump administration. US has been begging Iran to talk with no preconditions. And when all the threats and everything else failed, and America's top regional allies discovered the emperor has no clothes, the task of confronting Iran was basically subcontracted to the Russians!

    That is basically where we are now. Except, there is a good chance that while the Russians will pocket more Saudi money for themselves, and have even more meetings with Israeli leaders, at the end they will choose wisely and won't want to play the role the Saudis and Israelis are now trying in desperation to push on them.
     
  18. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, where you are now is Russia and China moving into the ME and America moving out. Good luck in expressing your POV to either of them. And you know what China does to Muslims, right?
     
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  19. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Take this to the bank: Iran isn't worried about China. Even mentioning them as anything other than in their limited role to help Iran avoid some of the US sanctions, is rather silly. And as long as you have Iran confused with other "Muslims"in your mind, you won't even begin to understand anything about the Middle East.

    We do have to worry a bit about the Russians. Iran invited them into Syria to help defeat the forces lined up against Iran and which had plunged Syria into civil war. That gave them a foothold and position beyond their "UN veto" in the region, while America's allies (the Israelis and the Saudis and the UAE) are now lining up behind them for protection. But I am hoping Putin will ultimately choose the right side and not want to walk in the same road that got America no where.
     
  20. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The only US ally in the Middle East will be Israel and the Arab (or Persian) whining will not be missed.. The rest will be on their own. Good luck with China. https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2019/10/iraq-china-india-oil-construction.html
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2019
  21. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What China does to Muslims in China has little to do with Chinese foreign policy. That is a domestic issue - it is not some secret that China is anti -religion within its borders.

    I am not blaming Trump for this but - We are losing in the Middle east - and this is not a good thing. Our Policy in the ME has been one disaster after another Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria and Yemen disaster after disaster.

    Some of the Gulf States are now supportive of Iran - Oman - Qatar.

    Our Relationship with Turkey is a Disaster. We have spent huge amounts of treasure (Trillions) and many lives - and what has been our Return on Investment (ROI) ? Our influence in the middle east - economic opportunity and so on - has declined precipitously This is not what winning looks like - this is what losing looks like.

    Iran is also a big disaster - which has resulted in our influence to decrease globally, harming our long term economic security - This we can blame on the Trump administration.

    France, Britain, Germany - and other in the EU have been giving us the middle finger .. the big "FU" due to our messing with their sovereignty - threatening them if they do not go along with the Iran Sanctions.

    India and Turkey as well - and obviously China, Russia, Venezuela ..

    This is not what winning looks like
     
  22. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    I think most people will one day agree that after America chose Israel as its main ally in the region, a process which began in the 1960s with the rise in influence of the pro Israel lobby (first over the Democrats and then taking over the Republican party like a Sunami under the guidance of the neocons), is when America also started its decline as a real superpower. It will take a long time for that history to be written, but it will be written.
     
  23. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Quite right, but it does give you an indication on how the Chinese view foreigners, or those with beliefs which contradict that of the State. They need raw materials and will eventually just take over. The Chinese are also moving into Russia.
    Yes, it has been a disaster since December of 2011. Because of differing views from one Administration to the next America should never be involved in any long term wars. I think Trump is doing the right thing by getting out.
    That can change from month to month. Best leave them to sort out any problems..
    The future is not in the Middle East. Let Russia and China fight over it. More attention should be paid to South America and Africa for the longer term.
    Blame anyone but the area continues to bounce from one disaster to the next. There are far better places to invest.
    And raising the middle finger is all they can do They are bit players now and not to be taken seriously. Britain is the exception and there are no raised fingers coming from that direction.
    Move on from Turkey. Venezuela will be an easy fix and I think India might be a good ally, given the threat from China.
    Then we will have to define 'winning'. What would it look like to you?
     
  24. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The US has been an ally of Israel since its inception and will continue to support the only democracy in the ME. All democracies must work together.
     
  25. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It has been a disaster since Reagan was supporting Saddam's use of Chemical weapons against Iran in the 1980's. After desert Storm - under Clinton - sanctions on Iraq killed hundreds of thousands .. then Bush invaded for no good reason and killed hundreds of thousands more - and turned Iraq into a Jihadist wonderland (spending Trillions of dollars in the process).

    Agreed

    You are dismissing reality - we are losing influence in the middle east - and the ME is a big part of the Global Economic equation.

    While we are not losing in Africa and Central America like we are in the ME- we are not winning either - the Chinese and Russian influence in these regions has gained = losing influence.

    This is 1 wrong - and 2) more dismissal of reality

    Raising the middle finger is not all they can do ... you are living in some fantasy world if you think this.

    Germany - despite US protestation - went ahead with Nord Stream
    Italy - despite US protestation - went ahead with the Belt and Road Initiative
    The EU in General is not going along with our Huwai boycott.
    The Brits let the Iran ship go - despite US protestation
    The EU is joining in the effort to create an alternative to the US international system of payments .
    India and Turkey went ahead with the S-400 system - despite US protestation.

    Our international corporations - who used to have VIP status - are VIP's no longer - messing with a nations sovereignty has consequences.

    Winning would look something like not having the majority of the economic powers in the world against us.
     

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