"Who's gonna pay for Medicare for all?" is either stupid or disingenuous

Those nations ration healthcare. I oppose that.

 

Please explain why you believe that all advanced nations that cover everybody at less cost ration healthcare? In the US, healthcare is rationed by cost. Not all can afford the healthcare they might wish. Private insurers also impose rationing, by excluding medically preferred methods of treatment from coverage as essential to their bottom line..

You appear hellbent upon perpetuating the disastrous status quo, ever-rising costs even as millions more become uninsured and dependent upon the American taxpayer, even as a superior approach is being repeatedly demonstrated.

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Let's see. I left home with nothing at 17, joined the army. After army, I still had nothing. Got a job, bought a $50 car. I got married, had children, and a better job. At 26, I started my own business with an old pickup truck and one weeks paycheck. It grew too fast for 5 years, and lack of management knowledge and skill put me in bankruptcy. Divorce came about the same time. The day the bankruptcy was final, I walked into my bank who had the largest loss, and took out a loan for that amount and signed it over to them, started paying it back. Lived in a storage shed that winter because I couldn't afford to rent anything and refused to live off family or friends. Before spring, I was diagnosed with cancer and needed surgery, but had no health insurance due to the devastation of bankruptcy and divorce combined. Told the doctor and hospital my situation, negotiated the total bills and a payoff schedule. Started a small business again- No money; got credit from suppliers who trusted my word. It thrived. Paid all those bills as agreed. Started another business at the same time, but found it wasn't right for me so I gave it to a brother, which has made him and my nephew millionaires. Worked to expand my own, and it's grown. Taught myself how to invest, and now manage investments for family. On the side, became quite skilled in learning how to think differently and empower ourselves- and started teaching others. Did that free for several years, paying it forward, working to make the world I live in a better place. Normal people, public school teachers in continuing education, people down on their luck, recovering drug addicts, kids in trouble- and corporate executives, the only ones I charged for the service. Made a lot of money in business and the market. Gave away a lot of money as well as time and help. Right now- today- there is a roof being put on a widow's home, a person whose self-respect wouldn't allow her to ask for help. I paid the bill. I've started 7 businesses in my life- still run one. My taxes are not usually 6-figure numbers, but invariably they are above the average family income.

In all that time- and I'm old- I have not taken one dime in the way of "support" from any government or charity. NO inheritance, no family gifts. Not so much as an unemployment check. Nothing. I'm still giving things away- to deserving people who can actually benefit from it. But I don't help people become weak and dependent, because that is a curse and a miserable life. I want to help them become strong in spirit and self-sufficient, and that is only possible for people who have decided that it is up to them- not others. I can't make the trip for them, but I can show them the path, and that if a gift of immense value that can only be useful to someone who is ready to do for themselves. Others, like you- see that as some kind of insult. Sometimes that requires telling them they are on their own; they got themselves into it, and must get themselves out of it. That can be very tough, and some will not succeed- but inside every man is strength and courage they don't know they have or how to find, and they won't look for it until they have no other choice. It doesn't sound like you have any idea what that is- or how valuable it is. I do. I'm only alive, and I've only been able to thrive because I had to find it.

Now you know my story. Why don't you tell me what I still need to do to stand on my own feet and become an American citizen?

 

Why would I look at the NHS, we already have Medicare. We already have doctors and other healthcare providers trained in the forms and requirements. Nobody is reinventing the wheel, it is just an expansion for a program that already serves 70mill by far the largest, insurer. But yeah pediatrics will have to learn it though.

 

You seriously believe that governments with socialized medicine systems don’t ration healthcare. For example look at the wait times and medical equipment availability in those countries.

 

And Medicare is subsidized by the private insurance premiums.

 

Well you are extremely successful, I never even knew anyone besides people I worked for that ever approached a 6 figure tax bill. And that includes the mayor of Boston. At that bill you are making 400,000 a year even just using standard type deductions. And no- medicare for all will cost you more than the 16,000 you most likely presently pay. Bernies plan would cost you almost 28,000 a year if you make 400,000. hell I made 30K more than the national average of 63K and never had a tax bill 1/10th of yours- Congrats and well done.

 

You seem hellbent on clinging to the increasingly unaffordable system that fails miserably in achieving Trump's state goals, and is objectively inferior to those you appear to be unacquainted with.

Health Care Index for Country 2019 Mid-Year


https://www.numbeo.com/health-care/rankings_by_country.jsp

 

yeah, what is the point? That 33 percent of our heathcare costs are paid at a rate 15% less than the other 66%. So your saying that medicare expenditures should be 1.15 trill instead of 1 trill. so instead of 7% to reach 3 trill a year it would have to be 7.25% to reach 3.30 trill. Big deal. Even with you making 400K that is only 2,000 more.

 

Health care is a limited resource.
People are focused on the method of paying for the limited resource.
They should be focused on the method of producing more of the limited resource.

If we are able to increase the efficiency of the production of the supply, the price will adjust accordingly through competition.

All these able bodied people who think Healthcare is too expensive...the most subversive solution to the problem is to become a health care producer. You will increase access to health care, and in turn lower the cost of that access. Since all of you are so completely uncorrupted by the profit motive, the improvement to the system should happen quite rapidly. Or perhaps you might learn that the systems you think are better, are not the improvement you think they are.

 

no, we think the answer is to remove the 20% of the two trillion that private heathcare insures charge in premiums and use that 20% not going to thier profit and overhead and spend that 400 bill to providers so that the 10% who are not covered will be covered.

I don't understand why opponents just say, hey I got a great plan, my employer pays 90% of the charges and I have a $10 copay and I make more than 150,000 a year. because if you don't fit that scenario, you pay more now than you will under medicare for all. Or you work for the government and you know that you can't go to him the day after he is no longer paying 10,000 grand for you and you want 1/2 of it in your check or you will go down the street to an employer that will.

 

It's interesting to me how people fail to consider the negative consequences of their actions. What do you think that 20% is currently being used for? How do you think the actual system changes in response to such a massive change?

Why do the people making these suggestions always think they can spend other people's money more effectively when they can't figure out how to produce that money in the first place? You make the money. You spend it. Simple. You can't spend the money other people make because they tend to stop making it in response. Then you have no money to spend, and lots of people sorting through the trash looking for food to eat.

 

You would look at the NHS and other socialized health care systems if you were interested in the problems with socialized medicine.

 

Phony data as I’ve previously shown. Do you really believe that healthcare is better in Turkey ???

 

The point is that if everyone has Medicare there are no private premiums to pay for it.

 

You are free to post any alternative comparative assessments of the quality of healthcare of nations that support your ideological dogma.

 

There's no two systems that can directly compared because the health of populations can't be directly compared. Cuba touts better heart disease statistics, for example, but it's not because Cuba is better at preventing heart disease. It's because malnourished people don't get heart disease at the same rate.

 

So 350,000 people can fund a 100% increase in federal government spending. In their shoes I would gang up and buy a country for themselves. Perhaps they could buy Nicaragua.

 

Cut it in half? Really? Don't you mean triple it? Like Obamacare did. Facts are tricky little things are they not?

 

So you are a true believer that the Turkish healthcare system is superior to the US healthcare system. Breathtaking.

 

yes, the workers who process claims will be laid off. But the bill is a healtchare bill not an empoyment bill. Salesmen will be hurt, but heh I made a good living in tech sales, I am sure they can be cross trained in a new field. One thing that I will be forever greatful for is a lack of healthcare insurance ads on tv. I made 93K a year. which is more than 70% of the country. I never stopped making money by working more hours taking on more clients once i made the average of the american family. I don't know anyone who has. And believe me at say 15,000 policy for a family of 4 at 7% of your income it is a economic benefit to every family making under 200,000K which would be 14,000.
hell, I don't like people in homes with mortgages that get to deduct interest on a 400,000 home, why the hell I am subsidizing their taxes. Every law has winners and losers, this law will have more winners than losers.

hell I got drafted, if you want to talk about being singled out unfairly.

 

You can emulate Turkey if your wish. I have never had the opportunity to evaluate Turkish medical care personally,
but your inability to find any comparative ranking of nations' healthcare that fits your dogma is painfully obvious.

Your infatuation with Turkey's system may be informed here:
https://healthmanagement.org/c/icu/issuearticle/turkish-healthcare-overview-of-the-health-system

 

You are the one who claims that all the nations ranked above the US have superior healthcare systems. That’s hilarious.

BTW, I have posted the information which will help you upthread.

 

Private premiums pay for medicare? Before I worked Tufts was my provider. They paid my Cardiologist $225 out of his bill which was supposedly $375 but that was the negotiated price he did with Tufts, Medicare pays him $197 now. so he now makes $28 less than he did before. Most cardiologist by looking at the people in the waiting room are on Medicare as most seem a lot older than my years. if 2 out of every 3 are medicare in order for him to break even 2x197+225= 619/3 or 207 is his average payment. so tufts subsidizes Medicare patients 9 dollars per every customer they have or about 7%. significant but nothing to the subsidizing that they do for people who do not pay as they have no insurance. Just like how wall mart adds 4% to the price of everything for what the call "shrinkage" and what we call theft. Providers specially hospitals jack up there prices to have insurance and medicare pay for the uninsured.

 

yeah, but the money is made here and here the taxes will be paid. A buddy of mine is a retired cop and also a retired MP army reserves. He lives in Panama, he still pays mass taxes and fed taxes. and there is no other country where billionaires like Besos don't pay taxes unless they are the sultan of Bahrain and really do own the country! find another country where a person making a million dollars a year on stock income pays 15%.