When is a ceasefire not a ceasefire?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Sandy Shanks, Oct 17, 2019.

  1. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2016
    Messages:
    26,679
    Likes Received:
    6,470
    Trophy Points:
    113
    When is a ceasefire not a ceasefire? There are multiple answers to that questions.

    When only Mike Pence and Trump say it is a ceasefire. US Vice President Mike Pence announced in Turkey today that he and Turkish President Erdogan agreed to a ceasefire halting Turkey's incursion into northern Syria.

    When Pence said Turkey "will pause Operation Peace Spring in order to allow for the withdrawal of (Kurdish) YPG forces from the safe zone for 120 hours." In other words, five days to allow the Kurds to leave their land, exactly what Erdogan wanted when he began killing Kurds and occupying their territory after Trump allowed him to do so.

    When Trump's comments are laughable. Understand, on Oct. 5th, he opened the door for Turkey to slaughter the Kurds, America's ally, and remove them from the safe zone. "Turkey will soon be moving forward with its long-planned operation into Northern Syria,” the White House said in a statement late on Oct. 5. “The United States Armed Forces will not support or be involved in the operation, and United States forces will no longer be in the immediate area."

    "When those guns start shooting, they tend to do things, but I will tell you, on behalf of the United States I want to thank Turkey, I want to thank all of the people that have gotten together and made this happen," Trump said. "I want to thank everybody. And the other thing I want to thank as a group, I want to thank the Kurds, because they were incredibly happy with this solution. This is a solution that really -- well it saved their lives, frankly. It saved their lives," Trump said. Was Trump joking?

    The "unilateral invasion" of northern Syria has resulted in widespread casualties and destruction, US Defense Secretary Mark Esper has said. "Due to Turkey's irresponsible actions, the risk to US forces in northeast Syria has reached an unacceptable level," Esper added.

    "But I will tell you, on behalf of the United States I want to thank Turkey," Trump said. I have no words.

    When one party to the negotiations says it is not a ceasefire. The Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said during a televised press conference Thursday that the agreement "is not a ceasefire."

    "We will pause the operation for 120 hours in order for the terrorists to leave," Cavusoglu said, referring to the Kurds. "We will only stop the operation if our conditions are met."

    When it is a surrender, not a ceasefire. US Special Envoy for Syria James Jeffrey, who participated in the talks in Ankara, told reporters, "The Turkish army has seized a great deal of territory in a very short period of time." Pence said the Turks were allowing the Kurds to flee their land. He and Cavusoglu seem to agree on that point. With Trump's help, sounds like a win/win for the Turks.

    By the way, the deal gives Turkey relief from sanctions the administration had imposed.

    The deal appears to secure Turkey most of its military objectives, forcing America's one-time allies in the fight against ISIS to cede a vast swath of territory. The deal meant the US was "validating what Turkey did and allowing them to annex a portion of Syria and displace the Kurdish population."

    Only the Trump administration would call it a ceasefire when an American ally is forced to flee its own land and is given five days to do so.
     
  2. TheGreatSatan

    TheGreatSatan Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    21,269
    Likes Received:
    21,243
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Turkey is a NATO ally
     
  3. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2016
    Messages:
    26,679
    Likes Received:
    6,470
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Turkey is a NATO ally, and is attempting to annihilate an American ally.

    Erdogan, Trump's friend (yes, Trump really said that), is a merciless dictator who is more aligned with Russia and Islamic interests than Western, Christian ideals championed by NATO. Turkey is buying arms from Russia that are capable of countering American made weapons.
     
    TheGreatSatan likes this.
  4. TheGreatSatan

    TheGreatSatan Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2009
    Messages:
    21,269
    Likes Received:
    21,243
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We should kick Turkey out of NATO
     
  5. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2016
    Messages:
    26,679
    Likes Received:
    6,470
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The agreement says nothing about the Russian occupied American bases. What about the Russian troops who have entered Syria to support the Assad's Syrian national army?

    Bashar al-Assad has killed a half of a million of his own people. Trump's cowardly decision drove the Kurds to Assad, and his decision strengthened the Assad regime by removing a key opponent, the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF). Is Trump still supporting the murderous Assad regime? If not, will he say so, and what is he going to do about it?

    And finally, the agreement said nothing about the hundreds, thousands (?) of ISIS terrorists who escaped as a result ot the Turkish invasion that Trump's Oct. 5th decision precipitated. Who is going to fight them now? Who will imprison them again?

    On Oct. 5th, Trump opened the proverbial Pandora's Box?

    The sociopath, Trump, doesn't care. He declared declared the deal an "amazing outcome," and he has moved on to other controversies and Constitutional crises.
     
    AZ. likes this.
  6. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2016
    Messages:
    42,519
    Likes Received:
    18,645
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Can't do that because the U.S. would have to be kicked out of NATO for exactly the same reason.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
  7. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Messages:
    42,206
    Likes Received:
    14,119
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Trump actually said this "pause" was so that the Kurds could be "cleaned out"

    That's ethnic cleaning folks..Turkey's objective from the beginning
     
  8. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2016
    Messages:
    26,679
    Likes Received:
    6,470
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Since Trump's fateful and dishonorable decision on Oct. 5th to betray an important ally, hundreds have died and thousands have been forced to leave their homes

    In a rally held in Texas, Trump's fourth rally in eight days during the humanitarian crisis in Syria, the sociopath said: "Sometimes you have to let them fight like two kids in a lot, you gotta let them fight, and then you pull them apart," comparing the slaughter in Syria to a schoolyard brawl.

    As I said, Trump is begging to be impeached. He longs to be a daytime television star given the role by House Democrats if they embark on impeachment proceedings. Trump has nothing to worry about.

    Republicans are offering their obligatory comments and are "horrified" at Trump's mindless decision to give Turkey all it wants while conceding nothing.

    Mitch McConnell, a Republican from Kentucky, is majority leader of the U.S. Senate, wrote an Op/Ed in the Washington Post, dated today. He said, "Withdrawing U.S. forces from Syria is a grave strategic mistake. It will leave the American people and homeland less safe, embolden our enemies, and weaken important alliances, adding, "There is no substitute for American leadership. No other nation can match our capability to spearhead multinational campaigns that can defeat terrorists and help stabilize the region."

    McConnell concluded by saying, "America’s wars will be “endless” only if America refuses to win them."

    For the first time, I agree with McConnell, not that it will do any good.

    Trump's good friend, Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., refused to back down to Trump's criticism of him and warned that the conflict in Syria could be a "defining moment" for Trump. "I am looking for President Trump to change this. I will do anything I can to help him, but I will also become President Trump's worst nightmare," Graham said.

    But Trump has nothing to worry about. The Trump Republicans will do what they always do -- nothing.
     
  9. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2016
    Messages:
    26,679
    Likes Received:
    6,470
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Putin is Trump's good friend, and Trump respects him greatly and respects what he says. How do we know this? Trump told us.

    Kim is also Trump's good friend. In fact, they fell in love and exchanged love letters. How do we know this? Trump told us.

    Erdogan is Trump's friend. How do we know this? Trump told us. "I just want to thank and congratulate President Erdoğan. He’s a friend of mine, and I’m glad we didn’t have a problem because, frankly, he’s a hell of a leader, and he’s a tough man," Trump told reporters this week.

    Trump has another friend, but he seems to have forgotten him. His name it Benjamin Netanyahu, and he is the prime minister of Israel.

    "US President Donald Trump has done little for Israel," former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert told the Jerusalem Post. "Recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of the Jewish state and then the Golan Heights as Israeli territory were empty gestures. This was a declarative move: no substance," Olmert said. "The [Golan] Heights were annexed in December 1981 — 38 years ago. Trump's statement merely caused more controversy over Israel's control of the Golan focusing world attention on an area that had been largely ignored," he added

    Olmert saw no reason "to be surprised about the pullout from Syria," but that the US withdrawal is a reminder that Israel has only itself to rely on.

    "In the longer term, the clear evidence of the chaotic way the US president conducts business is worrisome," wrote the liberal daily Ha'aretz. "He seems committed only to himself. Against this backdrop, it's almost amusing to note the shrinking number of Trump supporters in the Israeli media, who need to employ a little sophistry to justify the actions of the supposed lover of Israel currently occupying the White House."

    Trump's withdrawal from the region not only strengthens Russia's position in the region, but also Syria's ally, Iran. Trump drove our former ally, the Kurds, into the hands of Russia and Syria.

    For Israel, the US troop withdrawal from Syria comes at an inopportune time. Iran has used Syria to challenge Israel for years, supporting Bashar Assad as a means of gaining a foothold next door to Israel. Paramilitary troops from Iran's Quds Force are closer than ever to Israel's borders. https://www.dw.com/en/israel-stuck-in-a-new-middle-east-amid-turkeys-syria-offensive/a-50847541

    There is more, but the reader gets the point. The Kurds were not the only ones Trump betrayed.
     
  10. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,180
    Likes Received:
    62,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Putin has something on Trump, he has too, Trump doesn't like anyone unless it benefits him personally to do so
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2019
  11. Jestsayin

    Jestsayin Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    16,798
    Likes Received:
    17,571
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Lovely how the alt-lefties have suddenly become war hawks. Had our troops been killed, their response to President Trump would have been????
     
  12. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2016
    Messages:
    26,679
    Likes Received:
    6,470
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Two US officials with a grasp of events on the ground told CNN today the ceasefire between Syria and Turkey "is not holding."

    It was unclear whose battlefield actions were behind this assessment but both the Syrian Kurds and the Turkish-backed forces have accused each other of violations.

    Speaking at a news conference on Friday, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said Turkey's offensive would resume if the US does not deliver on their guarantee to get Syrian Kurdish fighters out of the safe zone area by Tuesday night.


    https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/syria-turkey-10-19-2019/index.html

    No doubt Trump will agree that is a perfectly normal request from his friend.

    I think I am going to puke.
     
  13. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2016
    Messages:
    26,679
    Likes Received:
    6,470
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You and Trump seem to think our troops are boy scouts.
     
  14. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2016
    Messages:
    26,679
    Likes Received:
    6,470
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Trump claims to want to end “endless wars” while doing nothing of the sort. His surrender order in Syria started a war. "It's time to bring our soldiers back home." — Trump said at a news conference on Wednesday. He was lying.

    Fox News reports, "All U.S. troops leaving Syria as part of the withdrawal plan recently announced by President Trump will be stationed in western Iraq, Defense Secretary Mark Esper said Saturday."

    The U.S. departure from Syria will take “weeks not days,” Esper said, and involve both aircraft and ground convoys as about 1,000 troops relocate, Reuters reported.

    Does this mean there won't be any pullout at all? I am a retired Marine officer and a amateur military historian. It does not take weeks to withdraw 1,000 troops and their equipment. Is the Pentagon countermanding Trump's order? It has happened before.

    Suddenly, Trump changed his mind, or the Pentagon changed it for him. The Times reports, "Trump is leaning in favor of a new Pentagon plan to keep a small contingent of American troops in eastern Syria, perhaps numbering about 200, to combat the Islamic State and block the advance of Syrian government and Russian forces into the region’s coveted oil fields, a senior administration official said on Sunday."

    Fox added, "In addition, the U.S. military will continue its efforts to prevent a resurgence by Islamic State group (ISIS) terrorists, he said."

    More evidence Trump is backing down from his dishonorable surrender order that betrayed an ally. Trump's order resulted in the Turkish invasion of Syria to annihilate the Kurds and forcing the survivors to leave their homes. In the process, thousands of ISIS terrorists were allowed to escape. Now because of Trump's order, we are forced to fight them again.

    It doesn't take genius to figure out that the U.S. can't fight ISIS terrorists in Syria if our C-in-C foolishly orders our troops to go to Iraq.

    Conclusion: As a result of the Pentagon's order to the troops and Trump's belated change of heart after much of the damage has already been done, the troops are staying for the reasons provided by Esper.

    Trump's obvious attempt to turn the region over to Russia was a bit too obvious. Trump has about as much discretion as a pit bull.
     
  15. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2016
    Messages:
    26,679
    Likes Received:
    6,470
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Once again, Trump supporters should be commended for not using Trump's statements to defend Trump. In defense of his Syrian decision, Trump's statements are filled with lies.

    Among numerous lies, he imagines what his critics are saying, then he criticizes them based on what he imagined. "We never agreed to protect the Kurds for the rest of their lives," Trump said today in a cabinet meeting. That is quite true. On the other hand no one has ever said that. His detractors have said he betrayed the Kurds who eliminated ISIS terrorists for us and the Western democracies.

    With this and other nonsense, Trump totally embarrassed himself at his cabinet meeting. At one point, like the promoter that he is, Trump bragged about the amenities at his Doral resort, confirming that he is profiting off his Presidency, confirming that he is in violation of the emoluments clause of the Constitution.

    He further embarrassed himself by saying a part of our Constitution is phony. “You people with this phony emoluments clause,” Trump said as he took questions from reporters during the Cabinet meeting.

    It should be noted, however, that Trump supporters rarely defend Trump. They largely avoid what Trump says and does. Can you blame them?
     

Share This Page