Scientism - The Belief System of Atheists

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by ChemEngineer, Oct 10, 2019.

  1. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2010
    Messages:
    56,117
    Likes Received:
    30,613
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Reality is the authority, not opinion. Lenin's comment is at odds with reality. Reality wins. I don't share your authoritarian assumptions about epistemology.

    For one thing, I'm not a leftist. I can pretty much guarantee I'm further to the right on economics than you are. Second, it is hypocritical to claim that others have faulty reasoning while at the same time claiming they somehow don't have the "authority" to say the same about Lenin.

    You don't need to continue demonstrating that you don't understand what "Leftism" is. You've already established that.

    The history of communism proves him wrong.

    You can adhere to your authoritarian epistemology as much as you want. It is still complete nonsense.

    Please tell me you understand how completely nonsensical this authoritarian argument is. You are basing your entire defense on one of the most basic informal logical fallacies. Truth is based on correspondence to reality, not on the number of statues you have.
     
    Derideo_Te and Captain Obvious like this.
  2. ChemEngineer

    ChemEngineer Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Messages:
    2,266
    Likes Received:
    1,135
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ah yes, and you are the authority on all "reality." It's so simple for godless Leftists. You're smart, and so you're always right.
    ciao
     
  3. Arjay51

    Arjay51 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2015
    Messages:
    4,216
    Likes Received:
    724
    Trophy Points:
    113

    You seem to be presenting yourself as an atheist since you claim perfect knowledge of anything atheist and claim every atheist thinks the exact same way.

    In other words you are and continue to be full of it.
     
    Derideo_Te likes this.
  4. Captain Obvious

    Captain Obvious Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    512
    Likes Received:
    241
    Trophy Points:
    43
    But everyone doesnt have a belief system. Most people’s. “Belief system” is a junk heap contradictions, pop-philosophies and crude bromides.
    I agree with you that atheism is not a belief system. It’s not anything. The word itself subsumes an anti-religious sentiment or a hedonistic sense of living which is false.
    My point was that an atheist can have a legitimate philosophy based in truth, logic and reality that doesn’t necessarily counter a religious one.
     
    Arjay51 likes this.
  5. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2010
    Messages:
    56,117
    Likes Received:
    30,613
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well, since you are unwilling to even acknowledge the definition of truth and instead want to turn it into an "authority" game . . . while blatantly and deliberately misrepresenting the posts of other forumites when you are unable to address their actual content, looks like "ciao" involves dodging a troll. Thanks, I guess.

    Truth is based on the correspondence a claim has to reality.

    Your "epistemology" is pure idolatry. It doesn't ask "what is true?" It asks "whose feet should I kiss?" It doesn't attempt to think critically; it only asks to whom you would like to slavishly surrender all capacity for thought. I don't adhere to your authoritarian, slave-mentality of "truth seeking." I'd rather actually and honestly seek the truth.

    Should you ever decide to change your mind and have some regard for the basic concept of truth, instead of blind and unquestioning worship of whoever feeds you the "facts" that you like, I'll be around. Not going to hold my breath, though.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019
    Derideo_Te likes this.
  6. rahl

    rahl Banned

    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Messages:
    62,508
    Likes Received:
    7,651
    Trophy Points:
    113
    still a belief system.
    Atheist simply means the lack of belief in a god or gods.
     
  7. Captain Obvious

    Captain Obvious Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    512
    Likes Received:
    241
    Trophy Points:
    43
    The phrase “belief system” implies a rational system of thinking with non-contradictory principles. One that guides the thinking and actions rationally. Hence the word ‘system’.
    Christians can at least point to something and say “this is why i think and behave a certain way”.
    My point is most people can’t.[/QUOTE]
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019
  8. rahl

    rahl Banned

    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Messages:
    62,508
    Likes Received:
    7,651
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Every person on earth has a belief system.
     
  9. Captain Obvious

    Captain Obvious Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    512
    Likes Received:
    241
    Trophy Points:
    43
    If only that were true. You ignore the word rational.
     
    rahl likes this.
  10. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2016
    Messages:
    4,157
    Likes Received:
    1,886
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    All human beings are rational. Everyone's conclusions are based on reasoning. Flawed premises (like mistaking correlation for causation) will lead to flawed conclusions even if the reasoning process is flawless. "Not rational" would imply the use of the primitive brain only. I'm not sure this is even possible.

    So yes, every person on Earth has a belief system. Science calls this belief system a model of reality.
     
  11. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2009
    Messages:
    23,673
    Likes Received:
    1,771
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Anyone with blood still pumping has a belief system. rahl thinks neoatheists are exempt.
    All 'isms' are the result of a belief system, no get out of jail free card, not even for neoatheists.
    Yes thats the philosophical snake oil that you peddle
    true, atheism is a belief system, no different than capitalism, communism, socialism etc.
    false, you have been shown that is not true when you tried to post the definition, your error was pointed out to you by several people.
    reality is consensus opinion LOL
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2019
    ChemEngineer likes this.
  12. rahl

    rahl Banned

    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Messages:
    62,508
    Likes Received:
    7,651
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No, it’s objective reality.

    Atheism by definition is not a belief system. It is the lack of belief in a god or gods.
    No it isn’t.
     
  13. ChemEngineer

    ChemEngineer Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Messages:
    2,266
    Likes Received:
    1,135
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Please, stop it. Men claiming to be women having sex change operations and hormone therapy? "Rational"?
    Women, murdering their unborn babies, calling the life they took "their bodies"? "Rational"?
    Godless Leftists claiming trillions of universes all made themselves from nothing? "Rational"?
    Nancy Pelosi and Company, destroying America? "Rational"?

    Spiders know male from female. Countless Leftists do not. So spiders are more rational than many Leftists.
     
  14. ryobi

    ryobi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2013
    Messages:
    3,247
    Likes Received:
    373
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    It's always funny when someone says critical things about science on a computer that is the direct product of science.

    The trillions of transistors in your computer that make it work are a direct application of quantum mechanics.
     
    Derideo_Te likes this.
  15. ChemEngineer

    ChemEngineer Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Messages:
    2,266
    Likes Received:
    1,135
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You misread and misunderstand. I was NOT critical of "science." I was critical of scientism.

    Nor does computer science have anything whatsoever to do with quantum mechanics.
    "If anyone thinks he understands quantum mechanics, he doesn't understand quantum mechanics." - Richard Feynman I believe
     
  16. Arjay51

    Arjay51 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2015
    Messages:
    4,216
    Likes Received:
    724
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Citing yourself again?

    Insinuating that you understand quantum mechanics while providing no evidence of such a knowledge.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
  17. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2016
    Messages:
    4,157
    Likes Received:
    1,886
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    You moved from "rational" to "rational behavior". It's not the same thing, you know.

    Being rational means using conscious thought processes to solve problems. This is what humans do. That was the point of my post.

    Rational behavior is the end result of the reasoning process.
    https://study.com/academy/lesson/rational-behavior-definition-theory-examples.html

    Categorizing behavior as rational or irrational demands intimate knowledge about the person whose behavior is under the microscope. Your first example - a man who feels like a woman trapped in a man's body - is a classic. If that man did nothing to change the situation according to his preferences, his behavior, although seemingly normal for anyone on the side who just sees a man behaving like a man, wouldn't be rational.

    "Rational" and "rational behavior" are not synonyms for "what I think it's rational". One might reject the premises, or the conclusions, of thought processes of other people, but one can't categorize behavior as irrational just because it's inconsistent with a personal set of beliefs.
     
  18. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2016
    Messages:
    4,157
    Likes Received:
    1,886
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    @ryobi was talking about transistors in computers, not about computer science.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/everyday-quantum-physics/
     
  19. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    55,517
    Likes Received:
    27,042
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Looks like a straw man argument by religious people who don't like atheists rejecting their baseless arguments for God and against what science says about cosmology and biological evolution.
     
  20. ChemEngineer

    ChemEngineer Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Messages:
    2,266
    Likes Received:
    1,135
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You godless Leftists toss about "straw man argument" like you toss about your own boasts of "rational" and "brilliant."

    1. Because you choose to reject the overwhelming evidence visible to all of humanity, over all time, in all countries, does NOT make the overwhelming evidence "baseless." You simply play word games, nothing more.
    2. What "science says about cosmology and biological evolution" corresponds ever more closely to intelligent design, beginning with the first sentence in the first chapter of the Holy Bible: "In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth." For well over two thousand years, "science" deemed the universe eternal and unchanging, contrary to the Holy Bible. It took "science" over two thousand years to catch up.
    3. "Religious people" in your parlance, include countless hundreds of thousands of scientists the world over.
    4. Your hostility is unintelligent and anti-scientific. It is Scientism at its worst. I'm attacking your words and your rationale, not you personally. You might have a stunningly high IQ, but then again, do does the Unabomber. What did that get him? Intellect is not in and of itself a virtue, because it can and often is used for evil.
     
  21. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Messages:
    27,769
    Likes Received:
    4,921
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sorry but Hitchens is not the spokes person for atheists.
     
  22. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Messages:
    27,769
    Likes Received:
    4,921
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Do you actually know what a straw man argument is? Hint: calling an analogy you cannot refute doesn’t make it a straw man argument.
     
  23. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2018
    Messages:
    4,472
    Likes Received:
    1,422
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It's always cute to hear non-atheists define what atheism is and it tells more about them and their lack of understanding what atheism is.
     
    Arjay51 likes this.
  24. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2009
    Messages:
    23,673
    Likes Received:
    1,771
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Of course he is, its his and dickie dawsons wacky neoatheist theories that the board atheists are peddling out here.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2019
  25. Arjay51

    Arjay51 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2015
    Messages:
    4,216
    Likes Received:
    724
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And continuing with your lies and false statements. You should be banned from society for your hatred.
     

Share This Page