Turkey and the Kurds

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by pjohns, Oct 23, 2019.

  1. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Those notions are ten years old. Russia and Iran are rivals in the gas business and there's no market in Europe. Qatar and Iran are buddies.. Qatar has no option .. They share the South Pars field (look at a map) Qatar sent arms to fight Assad not the Saudis.

    None of those pipeline schemes matter anymore.

    [​IMG]

    The market for natural gas is in Asia.

    Worse.. Before Trump unilaterally broke the deal with Iran the French signed a concession agreement with Iran worth about $40 billion.
     
  2. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    They didn't attack the oil fields in Arabia and Syria's oil fields are pitifully small.
     
  3. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    I thought the Kurds were descended from the Hurrians

    Phrygians, ancestors of the Kurds | Cogniarchae
    https://cogniarchae.com/2016/02/22/phrygians-ancestors-of-the-kurds
    This seems completely hilarious and is far from reality. Kurdish ancestors are the Hurrians of the Mittani kingdom those capital labored in today’s west/Rojava Kurdistan. HURRIANS (3000-1500 BC) even called Khurrites is ancestors of the Kurds and they lived in the historical Kurdistan’s geography.

    https://cogniarchae.com/2016/02/22/phrygians-ancestors-of-the-kurds/

    This gets real interesting.....................

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I believe the Turks call the Kurds mountain people, and mountain people are wild and isolated, so maybe they didn't convert to Christianity, or maybe they did at one time like the Circassians and Arabs, and then afterwards became Muslim.

    As for not being mentioned in the Byzantine writings, it means nothing. The Byzantines were so enamored with their own Greek heritage, that they only wrote in Classical Greek and according to historians, the writings and usage of words were so elaborate that they are almost impossible to translate. We don't even know the foods they ate.

    Hitler wanted to translate the writings so he could know how the Byzantines survived so long when he was planning his thousand year reich. That ended of course with Germany's defeat.

    I believe Selahattin Demirtas made reference to the Kurds being mentioned in Classical Greek writings. Maybe they were, and maybe they weren't - who knows! No matter, even if they were nothing more than a small group of Persians, or some affiliated group that ran into the mountains to escape Alexander's army, today they are a large group and have to be reckoned with.

    Trump is right, they are not the angels they are made out to be, and are quite cruel to the Arabs, but it doesn't mean they should be slaughtered.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
  5. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    As I have mentioned already, most of the territories which the Kurds inhabit fell outside of the Byzantine empire and were part of Iran ruled by Sassanian empire. The green area in the map below shows the Byzantine empire before the conquest of Iran by the Arabs, with the areas which have green/purple the primary areas of dispute and warfare between Iran and the Byzantine empire. (The map below in purple only shows the Sassanian empire's western territories, leaving out the rest of the empire which falls outside of the image).

    After the Arab conquest, all of Iran's territories fell under Muslim rule and the same with much of the territory of the Byzantine empire as well. Hence, the idea that the Kurds (who indeed were in any case mostly nomadic) would have been ruled for any length of time by any Christian power is itself without any basis and the fact that they weren't Christian doesn't have much bearing on any issue relating to their origin and when they had come to inhabit the areas in question.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
  6. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    There are different theories and ideas about the origin of the Kurds, but what is indisputable is that they speak an Iranian language, celebrate the same ancient Iranian holidays such as Norouz celebrated by the rest of the people of Iran, before the advent of Westernization, understood their history through the same sources as the other peoples of Iran (most specifically, through Iran's epic the Shahnameh), and that with the advent of modern Kurdish nationalism, they themselves have stressed their identity as being descendants of the ancient Medes (the Medes and the Persians the two Iranian tribes in the region whose confederacy formed the Achaemenid empire referred to as the Persian empire in Greek and western sources).
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
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  7. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    I am convinced they have been around for thousands of years.
     
  8. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    The map below depicts the boundaries between the Ottoman empire and Iran under the Safavids, which closely resembles the boundaries of Iran and the Byzantine empire a thousand years earlier! While some of these territories traded hands, the general areas of contention between the Ottoman empire and Iran and the Byzantine empire and Iran a thousand years before them were largely similar. Much of the Kurdish areas and Iraq, however, fell under Ottoman rule under the Treaty of Zahab.

    Incidentally, I stress the name Iran, as opposed to "Persia", because Persia is just the name used by Westerners to call Iran. Iran was always called Iran by the the people of Iran. For instance, the official name of Iran under the Safavid empire was: "The Expansive Realm of Iran". Under the Sassanian empire, the emperor was called "Shahinshah (King of Kings) of Iran" (and sometimes, Shahinshah of Iran and and non-Iran"). (Persia, in relation to Iran, is somewhat similar to say England in relation to Britain).

    [​IMG]
     
  9. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Did not say they did. I said Trump is sending troops to protect the oil fields.
     
  10. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In Greek, Khurrites would translate as Kurds.

    Anyway people shouldn't discount oral tradition so readily. If the Kurds consider themselves Medes, then they probably are. When my mother was young, she lived near a large carved boulder on a hill called the 'teacher's rock'. According to tradition, that's where Homer taught his students. At first the Europeans poohed poohed it and said it was probably some ancient temple, but now they accept it as being the place he taught.

    The one thing that seems to be constant about the Kurds is that they lived next to the Armenians and like all neighboring people, they hated one another. When the Turks sent the Armenians on their death march towards Iraq, the Kurds would come down from the mountains and kill some, while grabbing the young girls for slaves. I betcha the Kurds have a lot of Armenian DNA?
     
  11. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What about turkey and iraq?
     
  12. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes just partisan political BS.

    But stinks worse.
     
  13. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    For reasons I don't fully understand why haven't the Kurds assimilated in 4,000 years to get along with Turks? Iraq is still a mess from our last invasion.
     
  14. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why have sunni and shia not been able to be friends given both believe in the same god?

    Tribalism must be very stong in human nature. As a survival mechanism .
     
  15. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is little doubt if sunnis ruled
    Syria the shia and Christians would be in deep ****!

    And your remark about that pipe line is factual.

    I delight in the possibility that the PNAC scheme failed in Syria. After much success. It was and is the most evil foreign policy ever exercised by our ruling elites.
     
  16. Turkic Brat

    Turkic Brat Well-Known Member

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    Kurds were nomadic people until 20. century while Medes and Khurrites had settled life. This is very ridiculous, I don't know how settled people choose to be nomad ? ?
    ----------------------------
    Kurdish civilians attacked deporting Armenians during 1915 and today Kurds are living historic lands of Armenians as well as they massacred Assyrian. They were not angels.

    Armenian and Kurdish are irrelevant languages.

    All bullshit
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
  17. Turkic Brat

    Turkic Brat Well-Known Member

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    ISIS is fabricated by United States to create Kurdistan.

    We destroyed your plan! Stop lying

    Cry me a river
     
  18. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Lol. Nope. It was the US, the Saudis and Qatar using radical sunnis.

    He was defending Syria from outsiders .

    Thanks to russia he will probably prevail.

    I dont believe others should be involved in regime change wars. It should be against international law and agressors should be punished .
     
  19. Turkic Brat

    Turkic Brat Well-Known Member

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    Why Assad gave up lands of Syrian Arabs ? And why do Turkey, Russia, China agree an US' puppet state in the region?

    Over 5 million Syrian Arabs fled to Turkey and Europe. It is their land.

    Maybe House makes a homeland for them in this way, if you are very curious about them. :) We can agree on that.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
  20. Turkic Brat

    Turkic Brat Well-Known Member

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    Turks and Kurds are together only about 1000 years....:D They were alliance of Ottomans to spread sunni Islam so they had their own semi dependent emirates. Ottomans massacred Turks of Eastern part of Anatolia by help of Kurds, they together forced Turks to convert sunni Islam. Anyway, there was nothing for Kurds to be assimilated, they had emirates.

    But Ottoman Empire became Turkified after 1789
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
  21. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    This is from the Wikipedia entry about the Kurds...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurds
     
  22. Turkic Brat

    Turkic Brat Well-Known Member

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    If you are editor of Wikipedia you can write everything. They are Iranians anyway
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
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  23. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    So, do you think the House should vote to declare war on Syria?
     
  24. Turkic Brat

    Turkic Brat Well-Known Member

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    Nope...I think house will not make stupid decision because you Americans do not make efforts for fruitless projects. What will House gain if they declare war ? Losing its strategic ally, Turkey forever ?
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
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  25. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    The DP likes and profits from war, but its politicians refuse to vote to declare war. Rear echelon Chicken Schitts.
     

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