Brexit Deal Agreed Between UK & EU / Can UK cope without Northern Ireland?

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by The Rhetoric of Life, Oct 17, 2019.

  1. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Well-Known Member

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    You are just repeating yourself philosophical.

    We will Leave, there is no going back. How we leave is up to Parliament which is at the moment a 'dead' Parliament.

    A GE would 1st allow us to hear what each Parties belief and intentions are 2ndly Allow which ever is closest to Brexit ( no deal) to, unless the vote is split between BP and Tory leaving us in an even worse mess, follow through.

    I agree with Melanie Phillips, Boris should campagne on a no deal - win the election - take us OUT. Make trade deals with the EU afterwards.

    Ireland will be ok - no one is going to impose a hard border there -
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2019
  2. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A view from Northern Ireland

    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/...ut-not-hard-distrust-and-resentment-1.4062788
     
  3. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

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    I know I am repeating myself, but simply saying Ireland will be OK is repetition too.
    The devil is always in the detail.
     
  4. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Well-Known Member

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    And it is the detail which they have been thrashing out in and out of Parliament.

    It is to late for the deal to go through before the 31st. Monday there will be a vote on a motion for a GE. If, as it probably will be, it is voted down - we do not know what Boris plans to do next. There is still no answer from the EU to Parliament's request for an extension.
     
  5. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Paul Mason :Brexit has become a project of a section of the British elite that wants more neo liberalism, more free market economics but less Globalisation because at a certain point multi lateral obligations like you have in Europe commit you to a certain level of welfare, a certain level of food standards - no rat droppings in the courgettes etc and there is a section of the bourgeois, the elite that wants as I say de-globalisation but double down on neo liberalism. In the book I call that 'Thatcherism in one country'. I mean it was clear to me at the time of Brexit that there was a section of the elite who wanted that .................
    That section of the elite suddenly found itself, the Conservative Party suddenly found itself the steward of Brexit butthe Conservative Party is an Elite Institution and there is another dominant section of the British Elite and that is people like Thomas Enders who runs Airbus, people like Roland Rudd who runs the People's Vote Campaign, these are members of the liberal ruling elite, they are people with money and they want Globalisation and, lets give them this, most of them want a limit to deregulation because they don't want because they don't want to see the race to the bottom, you know Jacob Rees Mogg style 'lets have Indian standards of labour rights'. They don't see that as either going with their values or of course who wants to start a race to the bottom in the airline industry.......
    so there was a tussel inside the Tory Party - suddenly there was two elites fighting each other. So I think the last three years , cutting to the chase beyond all the Theresa May bullshit and everything else, the Tory Party has lacked agency and that means the Prime Minister, the Government has lacked Agency. It hasn't been able to do what it wants to do.

    Right now what's just happened? Johnson has regained Agency for that section of the elite who wants to screw up Globalisation - on behalf of Trump, on behalf of the Hedge Fund Guys, the Private Equity Guys, the Property Speculators and the currency speculators. That's who Johnson serves.
    ............

    They got that by selling out Northern Ireland

    I had made more notes on this but lost them. I cannot recommend this highly enough if you want to get an idea of what is going on and where we are likely to end up so that you can give an informed opinion.

     
  6. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Well-Known Member

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    Labour rights? Do you man worker's rights? Worker's rights began here during the Industrial revolution, beginning with curbing child labour, workers rights have not been given to us by the EU. The same is true of HRs - English lawyers wrote all of the HR charters out of our own laws.

    Today
    UK: 28 weeks sick pay - EU: none set
    UK: Holiday pay 5.6 weeks - EU: 4 weeks
    UK: Maternity pay 52 weeks - EU: 14 weeks
    UK: Minimum wage £8.2 soon to be £10.50 - EU: none set.


    As for economics Redwood is the clearest on that: http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2019/10/26/prosperity-not-austerity-3/

    And fyi only and interview with Blackford
     
  7. Cari

    Cari Active Member

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    The EU doesn’t set rules on what individual nation’s award to their people it only set minimal rules on which members can’t fall below. Try to get it right, your knowledge of the EU is on par with your knowledge of British history i.e. your attempt in teaching us British history the Romans and the Vikings ruled Britain at the same time was questioned and you conceded that the Romans had left a short time before the Vikings arrived.
    Oh I see, a short time to you is around 386 years, the true date between the Romans departure and the arrival of the Vikings. Where did you study history Dotheboys Hall?
     
  8. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Well-Known Member

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    I conceded that late into the night - I put in an edit with two subjects reversed - I was half asleep a thought came into my head but didn't reach the page coherently - every single one of us who have been in forum cafe society for a while have done such a thing - it is no biggy - unless of course if you are French and then it is unforgivable :rolleyes:. A lot of new discoveries have been made here over the last few years - trading was always going on to and from these isles ---- from far over the seas and land - in Kent mud flats river homes built pre Rome have been found beads from the ME for eg. There are overlaps - and the Vikings never ruled Britain - how they did or did not rule where they settled is also not as certain as the 'history books' tell - from new digs all sorts of new questions are being posed.

    Why do posters like you and your mate alexa insist on being so aggressive? Especially in this thread over something that is really neither of your's business.

    I posted the differences on how EU laws pertaining to workers rights have been interpreted on the Continent vs here because there seems to be a false perception that somehow we shall all become serfs again when we leave the oh so protective EU.

    I posted John Redwood

    I posted the foolishness of the SNP's call for independent without a deal as opposed to their insisting on a deal for our coming independence from the EU - in Blackford's interview.

    Of EU I shall tell you that most countries in the EU automatically interpret EU law into their own - even here most EU laws ( 84 thousand and counting) never see the legislature. Regulations ( EU binding laws) in the UK automatically become law as they are made in the EU. Directives are EU laws which need to be jiggled around a bit to fit into our own non coded legal system - as do they in a few other EU countries - but with a time limit which if not met said Directive become law automatically here to and or there is a heavy finr to be paid - on top of the protection money to the ponzy scheme.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2019
  9. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It wasn't me. It was a quote from Paul Mason. He said
    If you had watched you would have discovered it was an interview. It is quite easy to find out what he was talking about. Just do a search

    He is keen on slashing environment and safety regulations on goods coming into Britain after a far right Brexit.
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-workers-rights-jacob-rees-mogg-a7459336.html

    Workers rights will go down the toilet in his race to the bottom. They already have been massively slashed with neo liberalism. Your view obviously does not come for care for those who are not of the elite.

    Mason's view that the Tory far right Brexiters are on the side of the Hedge Funds goes with a couple of articles I put in earlier. That reasoning suggest this is an argument between the Hedge Funds and the Banks and EU policy. You can find the articles if you look back.

    His argument that what a far right Tory Brexit will give us is neo liberalism on steroids is also not an idea limited to him. I came upon an article from the LSE some time back saying exactly that.

    The dismantling of the state since the 1980s: Brexit is the wrong diagnosis of a real crisis

    Its kind of sad the way the elite have been geeing up those with the least to imagine they are offering them something when they are going to destroy them - though people are suggesting Boris would immediately go on a spending spree if he won an election. I can't see your beloved ERG being happy about that!!

    You really should watch that video. Mason warns that if they do not get their own way the people who you keep going on about killing in the streets may well do exactly that and he does not believe our police are able to deal with something like that...but then they are being egged on all the time aren't they.

    He sees if things just went by the Tory hard Brexiters, England moving to fascism but without a lot of what there was before. Neo Liberalism took away any opposition. They do not need to fight that but no doubt the dour and dangerous type of English Nationalism which has been encouraged will get worse.

    I think how he judges Ireland will probably come to pass. Not immediately but in about 20 years they will probably just announce that they are making it official. Boris did throw the DUP under the Bus but Brexit was a no win as far as NI was concerned.

    Her correctly sees Scotland going independent as well.........but here is the neat little bit. He believes that Boris has given all the power to the EU. Yes, he has kept his 'No Deal' but he does not want his No Deal. Mason thinks the EU will just quietly get what it wants and so eventually we will move out on a very soft deal.

    and of course there is the planet which would be left to die causing human extinction if these Etonites running the country who have become so happy they have got themselves back into what they believe is their rightful position, rulling it, so much that they have been rubbing it in, publicly arguing about the limitations of Ress Moggs nanny, get their time of fascist power.

    and this
    Totally against forum rules - talking about posters rather than the subject. You clearly are blind to your own aggression and appear to see people either giving you back what you have given them or having a different opinion to you as aggression. Look back on your posts. You may be having a go at Cari, who I do not know and me at the moment but looking ack on this thread you have been nagging several people in the same way for not having the same opinion as you. In your posts you use a 'we'. You speak for you. Everyone else speaks for themselves but this
    suggests you have already moved over to believing that no one who has a different opinion to you has any right to any opinion. You believe that if they do not think like you it is none of their business. That, to me makes you sound dangerous - well that and your many claims that if hard Brexiters do not get what they want there will be blood on the streets.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2019
  10. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Well-Known Member

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    I've had a tiring day and am a bit sleepy - so I'll keep it short - sorry I'd only popped in automatically - as one does - when I saw your long post.

    I don't think you understand what he meant by Mandatory Indian Standards. https://www.gpqi.org/news_en-details/mandatory-indian-standards-now-available-online-for-free.html I was listening to that debate at the time and I too did a double take lol but .... no he wasn't talking about dropping standards - the opposite in fact. We have Parliament on TV now don'tcha know?
    There was also, during one of those recent long full house debates, an older Tory MP speaking about the different choices of health care, including natural ones, available in the Indian healthcare system. We was asking the Health Minister if we could adopt it too. We have tentatively I suppose but Big Pharma has its foot well under the table in the NHS, I am afraid

    We have always had better workers rights than any in the rest of Europe - probably the world.

    Nope the British State was a municipal project, The dismantling of which, the municipalities, began in earnest in 1972 with Lord Redcliffe Mauds ''holocaust of local govs'' ( his words) In the Local Government Act 1972. Many EU Directives on Service, Landfill, Procurement ect have been the last straw for our once unique system of local governance.

    Who ever, on the world stage, is not on speaking terms with Vanguard won't live very long, in politics, will they? Politics is a dirty game - they all have to get into bed with some devils at some point. The Ways of the World.

    Mmmmm Killings in the streets are now gang related - immigrant gang related. Brexiteers? No we won't - we just blow off steam with a cry of 'hang draw and quarter him!' now and then - but so far the violence has come from Remainiacs. But there is something very sinister going on when there have been over 2000 arrests and convictions last year for, words spoken or written, counted as Hate Crimes. which did not include incitement. Oh yes, since Thatcher I have watched the PC here become law - after Blair and Iraq - there are no words to describe the 1984 and beyond situation.

    I am just straight forward - you just have to get used to me maybe.
     

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