What's best for Earth?

I am filled with gratitude when I consider the rapid progress of the human condition.
I am happy with our progress. I am happy with the fact that our rate of progress keeps accelerating.

How can one be happy without gratitude? Does Gretta seem happy to you? Do they seem happy to you? Perhaps it's their complete and utter lack of gratitude.

 

I've never seen such an unhappy group of people as the Progressives. Their label suggests progress which they seem to oppose and are unhappy with in every instance.

 

I am not sure what you are trying to say. You paint.... in this case.... with too broad a brush. And I am grateful... I live the country with sunshine in a Beautiful State. My quality of life does not suffer when a deer or a wild turkey escapes a Bullitt. Or has an environment it can live in.

 

The root difference between us is that you value humanity to the extent that humanity is of value to the Earth and all that is about it. I value the Earth, and all that is about it, to the extent that it is of value to humanity.

 

No... I just think the Earth can satisfy man's need. But never his greed.

 

Not if done slowly and voluntarily.

 

People who enjoy torturing dogs.

And by your standards, since it's good for those humans, then it's a good thing.

Your standards need a little modifying, don't you think? But that's a problem for you.

If your standard is absolute, then it's obscene.

If it's not absolute, then it's the same as everyone else's standard.

 

And that’s why fossil fuel power generation stations with distribution systems which generate electricity 24/7/365 should be favored by global warming alarmists. That’s the best way to quickly increase the standard of living and reduce the birth rates. The true hockey stick is the one showing the standard of living skyrocketing as fossil fuel power generation stations proliferated.

 

Are you volunteering to die slowly?

 

There are only two ways to die. Slowly and quickly.

 

I plan on dying young at an advanced age.

 

Very well said.

 

Well, we're already not minimizing human impact on the environment...so you got your wish there.
The problem lies with your desire to maximize human well-being. You don't have your wish here (or, you yourself may, but I suspect most folks don't).

For me, I'd like to see a break-away civilization...one without a monetary system nor a government/ruling body. That way, those in the old society who wish to continue their destructive lifestyle can do their thing without their will being imposed upon...while those in the new society can live among like-minded individuals without having to change the entire world.

In time, the old society will dwindle away as its citizens grow weary of being sick, tired, working for money, paying bill after bill, dealing with traffic & commuting, overpopulation, noise, insecurity, scarcity, angry people, politics, voting, petitioning, protesting, riots, shopping malls, concrete jungles & busy streets/highways everywhere, boring jobs, crime, gangs, drugs, wars, vaccines, GMO's, pesticides, bad air, bad water, bad food, primitive technology, very little time for R&R, no opportunity for space travel...and so on...essentially, they will grow weary of being a slave.

And in the end, the old society will have passed, leaving earth with a global new, space-faring civilization that advances in leaps & bounds as its citizens freely share their knowledge, inventions, food, art, music, talents, spiritual wisdom...where there is no governing/ruling body, but only a 'council of wise elders' that teach, guide, give advice and act as mediators where necessary, but who never make laws or rules and who no one is required to follow if they so choose...where aliens freely and openly come and go because visitations are no longer covered up by any government, and where humans & aliens work together because humans are more mentally mature & spiritually alert and ready for contact with other species in the universe/other dimensions...where indigenous groups (and anyone else) can live in the wild unmolested by the rest of society...where we no longer need to operate industries or mine for materials on earth and can now do all that on other planets/moons/asteroids, leaving earth a pristine garden once again...where machines do all the hard/laborious/tedious/dangerous labor...where the only work we do is that which interests & satisfies us but which is necessary work (health/healing, teaching, spiritual & metaphysical arts, science/technology, space exploration, food production, construction, and maintenance/repair...where all the jobs once relating to money/business/banking/economics, politics & government are gone), leaving a ton of surplus labor which means much less work to do (and no need to work just to keep a business in operation; work is done only when it is necessary too), so a ton of free time to pursue creative, exploratory, and recreational interests (that is, on top of one's chosen job which itself is already of creative interest & fun for the person)...where children begin their chosen work of interest at a very young age...where people can learn & partake in as many types of work as they please just for the fun of learning...where, because there is no money & everything is free, people can travel freely anywhere on/off the planet by air (no roads), so you can have a picnic on an iceberg in the Arctic if you like...where people can live anywhere they like...where, because there's no money, there are no grocery stores, so people can fly their vehicle to anywhere in the world for food and eat there or bring back whatever they like (if you live in Alaska and want some bananas you just take off in your flying vehicle to the tropics where it grows and pick it fresh...so you will see no more mass import/export of foods that place a burden on the producing side)...the population is raised smart, healthy, multi-skilled, and with a strong sense of responsibility to earth & its life-giving natural resources, and so, the population is voluntarily kept at a reasonable number that allows nature to thrive...technology is advanced: both anti-gravity and free energy technologies are used (and thanks to open contact/exchange with ET's, humans will have far better than anything possible on their own)...the new civilization will be spiritually advanced, environmentally conscious, but also highly advanced technologically...it will have the best of everything, and all will be freely accessible..........anyway, you get the idea.

It's very simple...and very doable. Think about it.

 

Sounds utopian if its voluntary, and dystopian if its compulsory,

 

It also sounds like the OP should say "What's best for humans on Earth. That being said, I think it would be a great loss for humans to lose the natural beauty of our wilderness areas. I would not like to live in a world where animals no longer run free. Or where wild places no longer exists.

 

I agree. That would not be what is best for human beings, in my opinion. I think that environmental policy should be guided by what is best for human beings. We should have a human protection agency not an environmental protection agency.

 

Utopian would always be voluntary. Anything less is not Utopian. We're talking about people of like-mind coexisting in a fully cooperative & creative venture...working for one another rather than for money. Essentially, it means each person literally will have millions working for them. I like to think of it as the 'Pot Luck' system...where if each person brings one item to the party, we end up with a veritable cornucopia of food able to feed any number of people who show up.

 

All of the benefits of the compulsory combined are of less value, to me, than the voluntary.
Give me liberty, or give me death.

 

But... But.... My food is worth more than your food. Or my creative effort is worth more than your creative effort.... I think it is better to let things work themselves out. The system is not perfect but it does serve its purpose.

 

There's no monetary/profit-based competition, nor a military/superiority-based competition in a society devoid of money & government. Everything is shared for the sake of every person benefiting from multiple sources. Again, think of the 'pot luck' analogy.

The current system is not only imperfect, it's a disaster and dangerous...and one that's spread over the entire globe like a parasite or cancer. The system is a scam and was never intended to ensure that all life forms thrive...but to subdue, dominate, control, and enslave. It can't be 'fixed'. It can only be eliminated.

By contrast, the break-away society is designed for like-minded people as a secure & stress-free foundation of abundance upon which to pursue one's creative interests within a cooperative social effort without fear of violence or interference from a governing/ruling body...without having to endure boring/useless & wasteful work...and without the unnecessary distractions/stress that come with money & major health concerns.

 

I am old and lived through the Hippy movement. It was great in theory but doesn't work in practice.

 

It's never been tried.

A new society diametrically opposed to the current one cannot be created by adhering to the rules and standards of the current one.

The best revolution is one where the people simply stop participating...not by pointing the finger at the leadership, and not by protesting, rioting, sit-ins, voting, petitioning, indicting the guilty, blaming the leadership, etc. Non-participation places the responsibility (and thus the power) directly onto the people where it belongs and always has been, rather than on the leadership. Just as a worker's strike can immediately shut down a major corporation, non-participation in the destructive enterprises of one's nation will do the same. It just needs to be done nationwide (or in some other nation). The solution is always simple. The problem has always been getting enough people to agree to it. For this reason, the 'ruling elite' employs the old tactic of divide and conquer.

 

What would become of Earth? No one would know as I would banish the human race, that is best for Earth.. Humans - undeserving, pathetic souls.

 

As far as I'm concerned, once the last human leaves Earth, the Earth no longer has any value.

 

Such would be factually correct, primarily because the concept of "value" is an artificial construct devised by humans to justify their insatiable greed and lust for more and more things. Once the human species ceases to exist, the remaining species will not go to war for the remaining resources in an effort to control them, so the concept of value will no longer exist.