Abortionists killing babes after birth? Infanticide okay?

You: """""We came to America to escape religious persecution.""


Then why TF are you persecuting others?



You:"""" And to practice that faith in peace and harmony with our fellow man""

Then let women alone!!! Let them have peace and harmony, too...

 

With the assertion that a newborn and a fetus are morally equivalent their argument falls apart.
Infanticide is alive and well in countries that have banned abortion and restrict birth control.

 

So you agree a holocaust is going on. Millions of innocent "babies" have and will die. I've asked this question before with varying results. What should an ethical person do to save a human life if they know where the murder is going to occur and who is doing it?
You have an army of millions on your side that occasionally hold protest signs and complain on forums. So my conclusion is either they are ethically weak for all their bluster or they don't believe what they are saying.

 

You think because a fetus is killed quickly that makes it less of a crime in the eyes of God? I guess you just don't understand the significance of the term "murder" and Im not surprised.

I am reminded of the liberal worth fallacy --- because our planet has 7.5 billion people their individual lives mean less and less as the population increases (most liberals value an eagle egg over a human fetus) They are ALL priceless and ALL deserve a chance at life. Our individual value is not diminished simply because there are billions of people on the planet. When morals become subjective, bad things happen. Like jews during the holocaust, who suffered greatly at the hands of a socialist hell known as Nazisim. Or slaves, who were considered and treated as subhuman by southern democrats, whipped, beaten and sold like property. In all three of these cases, the bar is moved away from personhood in order to devalue the human being at the center of each particular holocaust. Their individual "humanity" is explained away by the left before the genocide can commence. If the unborn baby ever get's rights, it will expose the abortion - genocide ladder of the left for all to see. it will expose them as the frauds that they are. The main takeaway here is that humanity is stripped from the individual first - then its high time to dehumanize and destroy!

And sure, we can talk about suffering, if you'd like. I would make the case that of the 60,000,000 abortions performed since 1973 well over one million unborn children died a horrific and slow death by abortionist, comparable to the death of a jew during ww2 or a slave who acted out of line during the years of slavery in the United States. Some slaves were whipped so badly you could see their internal organs through what was left of their backs. Some Jews were starved to the point of death. Some were gassed, lit on fire, incinerated. These method's of death are cruel and unusual and Hitler managed to justify this in regards to the German people. Just like slavery was justified by southern democrats. In those cases it took a war to resolve the issue of "equality" for all. You could very well substitute the term "slavery" with "abortion" and that should help but the abortion debate into context, at least if you are open and objective.

In the case of abortion, it may very well go down the same way, the left justifies abortion in similar ways. Will it take a war to settle this final issue of inequality? Most likely it will, except this time we are playing for keeps.

A garage full of preserved bodies may be shocking, but is a clinic “biological waste storage facility” any less shocking? Isn’t the fully legal procedure that put those bodies there the thing that should really disturb us, keep us talking about it, and spur us to change our laws? We need to be really clear about this. This is what that kind of “healthcare” looks like. Don’t let anyone tell you Klopfer and Gosnell are just bad apples. What happens in every abortion clinic each day should horrify us every bit as much as what happens in these houses of horror.

 

The problem is this is legalized murder. And beyond that, we are getting information that after birth abortions are taking place as well, and the justification for this is that the baby is closer to being a fetus than it is a person. This is the logic the left uses to first dehumanize and then destroy. In some cases the after birth abortion is used to keep the internal organs intact and fresh for another sale. The other problem is that these abortions go on in secret with no attending physicians or outside influence. If you are not explicitly allowed into one of planned parenthoods "death chambers" then there is no way you can stop these abortions and murders and infanticides from occurring. They happen behind closed doors and it' isn't just a matter of calling up the local police department to report a murder. No, planned parenthood is protected, first by the media and then by powerful left wing politicians. And then you can go all they way down the line. Trump is the only man who can stop the evil known as Planned Parenthood. This is why the left is so concerned about 2020. They know that if Trump gets in, PP will be in his crosshairs. They are throwing everything they have at him in a hail Mary attempt to overthrow our democratically elected president. But first, I would say Trump is our collective "ethical" response to abortion, and he has already done a number of things to put the brakes on the abortion industry. From a first person perspective? Best impact.. work on changing the law. Most immediate results... Protest at an abortion clinic to dissuade women from going in for an abortion, in other words help them save the baby and save the beautiful relationship that blossoms from mother to child.

This is a classic argument from the left. So you are pro - life, why don't you do something about it?
To which I usually respond, an abortionist enthusiast can only obtain honors after they get out and earn a couple notches on their belts. 5 notches - veteran. Good or evil? You decide. You have free will, after all. I will say this - that pesky sin nature can be hard to handle.

 

Your answer has nothing to do with the spectrum under discussion - deer in headlights perhaps - or "thought avoidance".

Was there a "bad thought" in my post that you could not deal with ?

 

A dead baby has NO chance of success
A living baby has an opportunity to succeed, at least.

In the loving words of Margaret Sanger...

 

Its been over 45 years and 50 million abortions later and you say be patient? I'm not feeling you're committed to your beliefs. Were the gas chambers at Auschwitz "legal"? Did Christ use violence when he saw an injustice? How many "babies" is an abortion clinic building worth?

 

I have to assume you support women and children to live on welfare for 18 years

 

I see that antinatalism is alive and well!
You mean women actually got pregnant? And had to carry the baby to full term? No way! I bet that was the primary punishment for Jewish women, and slaves, right? Just make them carry around the horrific terror known as a fetus for 9 months and make them give birth! That torture-pregnancy-hell is far worse than the gas chamber or getting shot to death. Believe it or not, there are some women that would lay their life down for their children, but the left wouldn't know anything about that.

First, it’s not “your body” that is being affected. You’re killing the child that you help to create by taking part in a volitional act (having sex). Don’t force everyone else to pay the consequences of your bad decisions.

Thats the classic liberal response. You can never do enough to satisfy them - and then they challenge your commitment to your cause. This is just another attempt by the left to marginalize the pro life argument and cause. You shouldn't be on the forum debating abortion, you should be out dismantling the abortion industry. Oh wait, Trump, the one man who took on Washington (the establishment) and won, is already doing that. Details below.

The actual figure is closer to 60,000,000 abortions, and that number is likely on the low side as all abortions do not have to be reported. Christ never used violence to further his cause. When Jesus drove the money lenders out of the temple (Gospel of Matthew 21) he showed righteous anger and he was justified.

In May 1944, Himmler told senior army officers that, "The Jewish question has been solved in Germany and in the countries occupied by Germany. It has been solved uncompromisingly, as was appropriate in view of the struggle in which we were engaged for the life of our nation." Himmler explained that it was important that even women and children had to die, so that no "hate-filled avengers" would be able to confront our children and grandchildren.

In fact, in the last letter Hitler wrote before he committed suicide, the last paragraph was about the Jews: “But before everything else I call upon the leadership of the nation and those who follow it to observe the racial laws most carefully, to fight mercilessly against the poisoners of all the peoples of the world, international Jewry.”

I say be patient? No, it's already happening. Trump has been working diligently for the past three years to dismantle and destroy the abortion industry. Why dont you take a look at some of his accomplishments. Definitely a president who keeps his promises.

President Trump’s Pro-Life Wins
Over the 2014, 2016 and 2018 election cycles, SBA List worked to put the Pro-Life Movement on offense politically. This culminated in securing from President Trump four very important pro-life commitments when he asked our president Marjorie Dannenfelser to head up his campaign’s Pro-Life Advisory Committee. On this page you will find information on President Trump’s key pro-life accomplishments on behalf of unborn babies and their mothers.

✅ Appointed Pro-Life Judges
During the 2016 campaign, then-candidate Trump promised he would nominate pro-life justices to the U.S. Supreme Court. In the final presidential debate, Trump stated, “I am pro-life, and I will be appointing pro-life judges.” President Trump has already made significant progress on this commitment to the Pro-Life Movement. In April, 2017, Judge Neil Gorsuch was successfully confirmed to the U.S. Supreme Court. And in October, 2018, Judge Brett Kavanaugh was successfully confirmed to the U.S. Supreme Court. To date, 157 of President Trump’s judicial nominees have been confirmed, including two Supreme Court justices, forty-three U.S. Courts of Appeals judges, and one hundred thirteen District Court judges.
✅ Permitted States to Defund Planned Parenthood of Title X Funds
In April 2017, Congress sent a bill to President Trump’s desk that permits states to defund Planned Parenthood of Title X family planning funds passed in Congress. President Trump signed the bill which reverses an Obama-era rule that disbarred states from doing so. Because this was passed using the Congressional Review Act, future Administrations cannot enact a similar rule to Obama’s.
✅ Stopped Tax Dollars Funding Abortion Overseas
President Trump not only reinstated the Mexico City Policy, but expanded it to the new Protecting Life in Global Health Assistance program. This new policy ensures that our tax dollars are protected from funding the abortion industry overseas across ALL global health spending, not just family planning dollars. The Bush-era Mexico City Policy protected roughly $500 million in spending – the new Trump policy protects over $8.8 billion overseas aid from funding abortion.

✅ Defunded the Pro-Abortion UNFPA
The UNFPA has long been complicit in China’s oppressive population control activities, including birth limitation policies and forced abortions. President Trump’s State Department cut U.S. Taxpayer funding to the UNFPA.

✅ Required Health Insurance Companies to Disclose if Plans Cover Abortion
The Trump Administration Department of Health & Human Services (HHS) issued a rule requiring that insurers specify in each plan Summary of Benefits whether the plan covers abortion. The administration also requested input on how to better enforce the limited abortion provisions contained in Obamacare. Until Obamacare is overturned and replaced with a system that does not subsidize abortion coverage, insurers must make abortion coverage clear to persons shopping for a plan.

✅ Settlements & New Rule Regarding HHS Mandate
The Departments of HHS, Treasury, and Labor issued two interim final rules, which means they took effect immediately, while allowing a comment period, that provide permanent, enforceable relief from the previous HHS mandate for both religious objectors, such as Little Sisters of the Poor, and moral objectors, such as Susan B. Anthony List. The new rule also exempts private employers and educational institutions that have sincerely held religious beliefs or moral objections against providing contraceptives or abortifacient drugs.

✅ Strong Pro-Life Appointments to Key Positions Including:
Vice President Mike Pence, Counselor to the President Kellyanne Conway, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo.

✅ New Office for Conscience Protection at HHS
In May 2019, the Trump administration finalized new regulations to strengthen enforcement of federal laws protecting the conscience rights of health care workers who do not want to participate in abortion. The regulations clarify what recourse is available to victims of discrimination under the law and what penalties the HHS Office of Civil Rights may enforce for violations. Additionally, in January 2018, the Department of Health & Human Services announced the creation of the Conscience and Religious Freedom Division within the Office for Civil Rights. This new office works to protect health care professionals who do not want to participate in abortion. In May, 2019, HHS issued a proposed rule amending Obama-era regulations, clarifying that Section 1557 shall not force a recipient of federal funding to provide or pay for an abortion. It shall also be consistent with the First Amendment and with pro-life provisions, conscience provisions and religious liberty protections in current law.

✅ Allowed States to Defund Planned Parenthood of Medicaid Funds
The Obama administration attempted to prevent states from defunding Planned Parenthood of Medicaid dollars, issuing guidance claiming this may be a violation of federal law. In January 2018, the Trump administration rescinded this guidance, allowing states to defund Planned Parenthood of Medicaid dollars as they see fit.

✅ Cut Planned Parenthood’s Tax Funding by up to $60 Million
In February, 2019, the Trump administration finalized the Protect Life Rule to redirect Title X family planning program funds away from the abortion industry. The rule advances President Trump’s promise to stop taxpayer funding of abortion businesses like Planned Parenthood, who will no longer receive Title X funding if they choose not to comply.

✅ Canceled Huge Contract for Taxpayer-Funded Experimentation with Body Parts of Aborted Babies
In June, 2019, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) and National Institutes of Health (NIH) announced they would not renew a major contract with the University of California, San Francisco (UCSF) to fund research using the body parts of aborted babies.

 

The most despicable act is to compare the horror, injustice, torture and death that Jews and slaves endured to the quick painless death of a fetus THUS DENIGRATING (OR DENYING !!!!!) WHAT JEWS and SLAVES ENDURED....A DEPLORABLE DESPICABLE THING TO DO..

The total lack of respect for what slaves (mostly blacks) and Jews endured, to say it was nothing, is the sickest thing on the earth.....and says everything there is to know about those who do that...

Fetuses are not and were not tortured, raped, murdered, ..they did not slave in a hot southern sun from dawn to dark with no compensation, they were not sold, they had NO grotesque experiments performed on them, they did not have all their property stolen from them, they were not starved, they were not beaten, they were not herded like animals into pens, they did NOT have their rights taken away, they were NOT declared non-humans , they did not FEEL the unbelievable pain that Jews and slaves endured.

Slaves and Jews WERE forced to gestate, EXACTLY WHAT ANTI-CHOICERS WISH TO DO TO WOMEN.

 

The most despicable act is to compare the horror, injustice, torture and death that Jews and slaves endured to the quick painless death of a fetus THUS DENIGRATING (OR DENYING !!!!!) WHAT JEWS and SLAVES ENDURED....A DEPLORABLE DESPICABLE THING TO DO..

The total lack of respect for what slaves (mostly blacks) and Jews endured, to say it was nothing, is the sickest thing on the earth.....and says everything there is to know about those who do that...

Fetuses are not and were not tortured, raped, murdered, ..they did not slave in a hot southern sun from dawn to dark with no compensation, they were not sold, they had NO grotesque experiments performed on them, they did not have all their property stolen from them, they were not starved, they were not beaten, they were not herded like animals into pens, they did NOT have their rights taken away, they were NOT declared non-humans , they did not FEEL the unbelievable pain that Jews and slaves endured.

Slaves and Jews WERE forced to gestate, EXACTLY WHAT ANTI-CHOICERS WISH TO DO TO WOMEN.

 

The most despicable act is to compare the horror, injustice, torture and death that Jews and slaves endured to the quick painless death of a fetus THUS DENIGRATING (OR DENYING !!!!!) WHAT JEWS and SLAVES ENDURED....A DEPLORABLE DESPICABLE THING TO DO..

The total lack of respect for what slaves (mostly blacks) and Jews endured, to say it was nothing, is the sickest thing on the earth.....and says everything there is to know about those who do that...

Fetuses are not and were not tortured, raped, murdered, ..they did not slave in a hot southern sun from dawn to dark with no compensation, they were not sold, they had NO grotesque experiments performed on them, they did not have all their property stolen from them, they were not starved, they were not beaten, they were not herded like animals into pens, they did NOT have their rights taken away, they were NOT declared non-humans , they did not FEEL the unbelievable pain that Jews and slaves endured.

Slaves and Jews WERE forced to gestate, EXACTLY WHAT ANTI-CHOICERS WISH TO DO TO WOMEN.

 

The most despicable act is to compare the horror, injustice, torture and death that Jews and slaves endured to the quick painless death of a fetus THUS DENIGRATING (OR DENYING !!!!!) WHAT JEWS and SLAVES ENDURED....A DEPLORABLE DESPICABLE THING TO DO..

The total lack of respect for what slaves (mostly blacks) and Jews endured, to say it was nothing, is the sickest thing on the earth.....and says everything there is to know about those who do that...

Fetuses are not and were not tortured, raped, murdered, ..they did not slave in a hot southern sun from dawn to dark with no compensation, they were not sold, they had NO grotesque experiments performed on them, they did not have all their property stolen from them, they were not starved, they were not beaten, they were not herded like animals into pens, they did NOT have their rights taken away, they were NOT declared non-humans , they did not FEEL the unbelievable pain that Jews and slaves endured.

Slaves and Jews WERE forced to gestate, EXACTLY WHAT ANTI-CHOICERS WISH TO DO TO WOMEN.

 

Only if you ignore completely the context of the quote.
Let me help:

Source:

 

If you cannot afford a child, do not get pregnant.

It is really simple.

 

Great and true post but you will find that Anti-Choice women haters do not respond well to facts...

 

If you don't like abortions , don't get one....It is really simple.

 

The hypocrisy of the right:

You: """""We came to America to escape religious persecution.""


Then why TF are you persecuting others?



You:"""" And to practice that faith in peace and harmony with our fellow man""

Then let women alone!!! Let them have peace and harmony, too...

 

No one likes abortions.

 

OK, If you are against women having abortions then don't have one.

It really is simple without squirming around the point...

 

That is exactly what I am saying too - If you do not want a pregnancy, do not get pregnant.

This is the ultimate and only solution to the "abortion debate" as it is a notion of absolute truth that can unite both camps. Actions have consequences and everyone is responsible for the consequences of their own actions.

 

That is exactly what I am saying, too.....if you do not want an abortion , do not have one.

We also agree on :

""Actions have consequences and everyone is responsible for the consequences of their own actions""


Yes, everyone is responsible for the consequences of THEIR OWN actions.

No one else is.

So if a woman decides to have an abortion she is being responsible for her own actions. SHE decided the consequences were to have an abortion.

 

Yeah, but an abortion is not exactly a cookie which you can "just have". An abortion is an urgent, unwanted solution to an urgent and unwanted problem and that urgent and unwanted problem is easy as heck to prevent, especially in the modern world of easily accessible contraceptives and birth control.

Exactly. Therefore everyone should take responsibility.

An abortion is still not a cookie. A woman does not just wake up morning all like; "Oh, I would really want an abortion!"

That is not how it works and that is where your "logic" fails.

 

That is exactly what I am saying, too.....if you do not want an abortion , do not have one.

We also agree on :

""Actions have consequences and everyone is responsible for the consequences of their own actions""


Yes, everyone is responsible for the consequences of THEIR OWN actions.

No one else is.

So if a woman decides to have an abortion she is being responsible for her own actions. SHE decided the consequences were to have an abortion.

It's a legal medical procedure you CAN just have.

.

First, NO one is obligated to use birth control.
Second, most BC has a failure rate.
Third, some forms of birth control carry risks....so , again, NO one is obligated to use it.

Everyone should take responsibility for , as you said, THEIR OWN actions...and having an abortion when one doesn't want to be pregnant IS taking responsibility for one's OWN actions.



The actions of another are NOT YOUR responsibility.....even though you seem to want to" Rule On What Other's Responsibility Is"....you don't.

No, they usually think it over first....did you have a point?

What "failure in logic" was that?

I stated that a woman who is pregnant decides what she considers responsible ….not you.

YOU said people should be responsible for THEIR OWN actions....