"Who's gonna pay for Medicare for all?" is either stupid or disingenuous

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by 3link, Nov 11, 2018.

  1. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    22,147
    Likes Received:
    5,897
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You think the extra you have to pay for profit margins grows on trees ? Laughable. The profit motive restricts access to many services unavailable to those who can’t afford it. It’s amazing how you think we live in a society where everything is capitalized. Road care and infrastructure is socialism. Deal with it.
     
  2. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2017
    Messages:
    20,620
    Likes Received:
    8,982
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    and they can grow there own crops, raise their own livestock, build their own homes.....I don't get your point.
     
  3. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    22,147
    Likes Received:
    5,897
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It’s ridiculous to think you can administer your own. healthcare.
     
  4. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Messages:
    7,875
    Likes Received:
    1,875
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Unfortunately, many people can not provide for themselves.
     
  5. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2018
    Messages:
    20,312
    Likes Received:
    8,774
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    But much lower per claim.
     
  6. BleedingHeadKen

    BleedingHeadKen Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2008
    Messages:
    16,551
    Likes Received:
    1,270
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Of course. Medicare claims tend to be higher because they are dealing with an older population and many end-of-life issues. How many 50 years olds break their their hips and need round the clock care in a hospital for three weeks and then home care for months after?

    Your "argument" from the emotional highground is the intellectual equivalent of calling pro-choice advocates "baby murderers."
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
  7. BleedingHeadKen

    BleedingHeadKen Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2008
    Messages:
    16,551
    Likes Received:
    1,270
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Look who is trying to weasel out of his despicable attack by claiming to speak for all of the working poor. What makes you think that I am rich? What people like you suffer from is self-righteousness and holiness, imagining that you have a monopoly on empathy. It's a load of intellectually dishonest crap.
     
    TedintheShed likes this.
  8. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    22,147
    Likes Received:
    5,897
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Don’t be ridiculous. You just think every “minority” is a racial reference. Universal healthcare is about those who can’t afford healthcare. The uninsured are predominantly white. If all I did was watch conservative news, outlets, I wouldn’t know that either. So race has little to do with being a minority when it comes to healthcare.

    The right will get it eventually. The Kentucky Republican gov. of a poor red state, just lost an election by threatening to withdraw from Medicaid expansion, leaving nearly 400,000 of his mostly poor constituents with the possibility of losing their health care. Ha ha. Keep thinking in racial terms on your way to defeat while even the conservative majority in many red states wants universal healthcare.
    I know what minority means. Maybe you should re-examine it yourself.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
    ronv likes this.
  9. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2017
    Messages:
    20,620
    Likes Received:
    8,982
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It is ridiculous to think there is no responsibility to "provide" for your own healthcare. We must provide for our food and water. We must provide for our shelter.....but somehow you think healthcare is a right.
    In those situations we have charities. My daughter goes to a Christian clinic for her son. It runs about the third of the cost. There are many avenues available. Government takes about 70% in administrative costs when it comes to charity.
     
  10. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    22,147
    Likes Received:
    5,897
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Are you on that same kick that healthcare is as easily provided for as food ? You want people to make a choice when they can’t afford both. That’s a bigoted statement aimed at singling out the poor to die. This is why righties deserve no quarter in any discussion of healthcare. They don’t even think access to it is constitutional right.
     
  11. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2018
    Messages:
    20,312
    Likes Received:
    8,774
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No. There are more claims per person.
     
  12. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    22,147
    Likes Received:
    5,897
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Agree that’s True....and often the treatment is more expensive and involved.
     
  13. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Messages:
    7,875
    Likes Received:
    1,875
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Hopefully, charities can be supported by Government grants. Otherwise millions of people are left without help.
     
    dagosa likes this.
  14. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    22,147
    Likes Received:
    5,897
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Only if it’s Trump’s admin and he’s skimming everything off the top for himself.
    Trump isn’t even allowed to declare a charitable organization anymore. He was using his to scam donors; he was pocketing the money donors thought was going to charitable work...
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
  15. TedintheShed

    TedintheShed Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2010
    Messages:
    5,301
    Likes Received:
    1,983
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What gives you the right to speak for them and how do you know who they are?

    I come from being Appalachian poor. We heated our house with wood burning stoves and I was splitting wood with a 12 lb maul at 10. We would clear cut farmers fence lines. We grew and canned the majority of our food, about 1000 quarts s year. We hunted for our meat- I didn't taste beef until I was 12. My clothes came from yard sales when I was a child. Not a single welfare check or food stamp either.

    We didn't suffer from "rights indignation" (whatever that means) or "lack of empathy". Those are constructs of lesser minds or of politicians in the standard left/ right paradigm try to take advantage of gulable constituants. The greatest insult provided was pity, just like your post.

    We saw that people like this don't really want to help, but wanted to use us for political advantage, and people like you are who allows this.
     
  16. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    22,147
    Likes Received:
    5,897
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I’m a voter and it’s my taxes that helps fund their insurance through Medicaid when they can’t afford private, which is very inefficient. What gives me the right ? I want to pay less in taxes. I don’t want to over pay for your unfounded, uninformed and ridiculously poor thought out quest for you to take my money. You want private insurance, I could not care less. But without a public option for the poor, your idea that private insurance should provide all healthcare coverage, is ridiculous. No other industrialized nation in the world is that poorly informed.
    It’s akin to being uninformed about climate change and trickle down. Conservatives have cornered really dumb ideas.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
  17. TedintheShed

    TedintheShed Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2010
    Messages:
    5,301
    Likes Received:
    1,983
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So don't pay taxes. Use the force of the ballot box that you seem so fond of to eliminate the program and eventually reduce your tax burden to nothing.
     
  18. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    22,147
    Likes Received:
    5,897
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Get real. Make a comment that makes sense other then, “ don’t pay taxes.”

    Eliminate what program, Medicaid. . I support Lowering everyone’s financial commitment with universal public option. You’re advice is way too poorly informed.

    You talk like you are totally unaware of what the rest of the world does to lower healthcare costs.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
  19. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    22,147
    Likes Received:
    5,897
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yup. Spreading healthcare to the working poor and the millions who lost their jobs during the rescission through the ACA created thousands of new jobs per month.

    If we want another recession, eliminate preexisting conditions and Medicaid expansion. The problem is, keeping people with PEC s and poor people in the roles is too expensive for private insurance. They can’t do it. Otherwise, republicans would have eliminated Obamacare. The market and the 3conomy would fold like a tent. We help climbed out of a recession by expanding healthcare. We can still do more.
     
    David Landbrecht likes this.
  20. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    12,041
    Likes Received:
    5,750
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    we cannot afford medicare for all period, point blank end of story.. it's both dumb and disingenuous.
     
  21. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    22,147
    Likes Received:
    5,897
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Geezus I hope so. He doesn’t speak for Most when he humps Putin and calls AGW a Chinese hoax. Agree.....Don’t want an ignoramus speaking for anyone but himself.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
  22. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    22,147
    Likes Received:
    5,897
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Universal healthcare cost less. Every country that has it, pays LESS. We can’t afford not to.
    Period, blank end of story.
     
    David Landbrecht likes this.
  23. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2018
    Messages:
    12,041
    Likes Received:
    5,750
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    every other country doesn't eat the crap we eat then expect pills to make us better.. out health care costs are self created by bad behavior
     
  24. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
    Messages:
    22,147
    Likes Received:
    5,897
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Exactly. Most of our increase each year goes for preventable illnesses from obesity related diabetes for one. One of the reasons why countries with universal healthcare is cheaper is their stronger emphases on preventable healthcare.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
    David Landbrecht likes this.
  25. TedintheShed

    TedintheShed Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2010
    Messages:
    5,301
    Likes Received:
    1,983
    Trophy Points:
    113
    .


    LOL..okay, where to start with this horribly ill conceived statement.

    First, you don't support a "universal public option" because you are some how more informed than I. You support it either because

    1) You have a political agenda

    or

    2) You haven't the faintest idea of what has cost healthcare to sky rocket.

    So in case it is #2, let me educate you.

    For 110 years government has, over time, instituted measures that made healthcare unaffordable for many via various legislative and executive measures. As it happens, I happen to know where a very good list of these for you to examine and research on your own, if you'd like. This is not everything in it's entirety, but these are the "big hitters", so to speak

    One "big hitter" not mentioned here is the "Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act", which requires emergency rooms that accepts medicare payments to provide and medical screening, and then can not be discharged or transferred. That was Regan's doing.

    If you read the list, you see a lot of words like "oligopoly" and "monopoly" within the descriptions of government actions. The point being is that it is actually government interference within the market that has made healthcare unaffordable, and until the 1980's healthcare seemed to generally follow the laws of supply and demand.

    Now, call me naive, but these corporation STILL to this day have a ton of lobby power- they have the "right" and means to lobby (DON'T GET ME STARTED ON CORPORATE PERSONHOOD). Now, you are proposing placing the government in direct control of this sector, there by allowing them to pedal more favor and influence to these companies who otherwise would not have so much power over the market with government.

    Just examine any other market- education, banking, etc. Look what has happened to education since Carter formed the Department of Education in the 1970's for example...down hill.

    Here is a very good article on this at The Mises Institute.

    This contains the list I provided and goes much more in depth. Most partisans will discount it from the beginning (liberals because it dispels their belief in a need for a public option and conservatives because many of the issues were caused by conservatives), but that's fine. That is always an indicator to me as to what ground the are standing upon. It tells me whether we should continue the discussion.

    Enjoy the read.
     

Share This Page