To impeach or not to impeach, that is the question

There you go. I knew you could escape reality!

 

Politicians do what politicians do and I don't approve of much of it. When you understand that this impeachment thing will fail and will fail with only months left before the election, you understand that it is about politics and the 2020 election, not unseating a president. It is political theater produced by angry people.

 

We agree 100%.

 

Not only angry, but irrational, and they are not using their government positions to serve The People.

 

This does not look good for Trump's removal in a Senate trial.

NBC News reports, "For those Senate Republicans who are refusing to condemn the House-led impeachment inquiry, three may be the loneliest number.

"While a resolution denouncing the House Democrats' fast-moving probe hasn't received a vote, GOP Sens. Mitt Romney of Utah, Susan Collins of Maine and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska declined to sign on as co-sponsors — the only ones out of 53 Republicans — leaving the door ajar to the possibility that they could vote to convict President Donald Trump if impeachment moves to its trial phase in the Senate."

Is anyone surprised? It seems Trump Republicans do not think anything is wrong when the President asks for foreign interference in our Presidential election and uses extortion to obtain it.

Americans will make the final decision on that matter in November 2020.

In the meantime, Democrats should to continue with the impeachment inquiry, but not impeach. They don't have majority support from Americans and they don't have the support of Senate Republicans. Without that support, impeachment will fail and be a waste of time, money, energy, and likely will result in a Trump victory in November, the very opposite of what was intended by impeachment.

 

fmw said: ↑

We agree 100%. Allowing the voters to choose the president rather than having the congress do it is far more secure since it is the way the founders designed the government. It is hard to blame the voters and easy to blame congress. I never thought the purpose was to unseat Trump. I always viewed it as a technique to hurt his chances for re-election. I still view it that way.

In other words, because about 25% of the electorate chose Trump, he can do no wrong. He is above the law because "the voters choose the president ."

In your view, Trump should remain President despite the fact that he requested foreign interference in our Presidential election for his political benefit and used extortion to obtain the desired results.

Ukraine is an important ally fighting Russian aggression and a Russian invasion of their land. Trump withheld vital military aid because he wanted the Ukrainians to investigate a political rival. Trump created a national security threat to our country for political advantage.

But, in your book, that is okay because about 25% of Americans voted for Trump, although he was outvoted by nearly three million votes.

That is your opinion and you are welcome to it.

 

Trump's latest distraction to his July 25th phone call to Zelensky that contains impeachable offenses? He is trying to get people interested in another phone call.

“I have the second call, which nobody knew about," Trump said, speaking to reporters as he left the White House on Friday morning. "I guess they want that to be produced also. ... I understand they'd like it, and I have no problem giving it to them."

He is desperately trying to get people's attention, but nobody is listening to him. No one is interested in the earlier call, and House investigators clearly are not interested.

"I guess they want that to be produced also. ... I understand they'd like it." No one has any idea what he is talking about.

Trump also said he was interesting in visiting Russia next year during the height of the election campaign.

 

Sure they are. Our representatives are doing their best to remove a President who committed impeachable offenses. You would know that if you read them, but you avoid the evidence like the plaque and concentrate on B.S.

 

Republicans submitted their witness list, and it reflects the position that Trump is guilty as hell, and they simply want to change the subject.

The Times reports, "Rather than shy away from conspiracies that Mr. Trump’s own government has repeatedly disavowed or played down, the Republicans’ requests suggest their willingness to conduct a scorched-earth strategy as they respond to nearly a month of blockbuster revelations about pressure campaigns involving military aid, diplomatic shakedowns and rogue actions by the president’s personal lawyer."

 

Whatever you say. I didn't say that.

[/quote]In your view, Trump should remain President despite the fact that he requested foreign interference in our Presidential election for his political benefit and used extortion to obtain the desired results.[/quote]

You think it was for his political benefit but you haven't proved it. I give him the benefit of the doubt. You claim there is no doubt. We talk past each other as usual..

None of this is proven.

[cquote]But, in your book, that is okay because about 25% of Americans voted for Trump, although he was outvoted by nearly three million votes.

That is your opinion and you are welcome to it.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. I usually do side with the constitution.

 

It's going to happen. The House impeaches pretty much along a party line vote. The senate acquits along the same almost party line vote. I see 2 democratic senators voting to acquit and 4-5 GOP senators voting to impeach and remove.

As for impeachment helping Trump win reelection, it would if only impeachment is seen as a partisan political vendetta or revenge against Trump for winning an election. I see it as a wash or even hurting Trump, again depending on how independents, the non-affiliated, swing voters view the proceedings. The country is split down the middle now. 85% of Democrats on average want Trump impeached and removed, 85% of Republican do not. Even independents, the swing voters are split, polls show an average of 35% for removal, 35% against impeachment and removal, 30% in the don't know, not sure or plain don't care column.

Those 30% of independents that are undecided make up roughly 12% of the electorate. The rest, 88% are decided on Trump already. It's how those 12% view the entire impeachment process and evidence both for and against that will decide the 2020 election. Whether impeachment and the trial, foregone conclusions on both, will either help or hurt Trump or as I see it, basically a wash.

Now if the democrats come up with a candidate that is attractive to the independent voter, as Hillary wasn't. Impeachment won't matter. The Republican Party is still the smaller of the two major parties, Trump and the GOP must win the independent vote or lose the election. Trump is president today because independents voted for him over Hillary. Perhaps instead of the Democrats putting all their emphasis on impeachment, they should be concentrating on which candidates is the most attractive to independents. That in my opinion is the best way to defeat Trump.

 

Obtaining dirt on his likely opponent in the election is not to Trump's political benefit. It has to be proven. Read the transcript.

"Ukraine is an important ally fighting Russian aggression and a Russian invasion of their land."

You are trying to waste my time.

 

The Hill writes, "Republican lawmakers stepped up pressure Sunday on House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff to allow them to call Vice President Joe Biden's son, Hunter Biden, to testify in the impeachment inquiry of President Donald Trump.

"The GOP lawmakers said if the Intelligence Committee's Democrats block the committee's minority choices of witnesses, it would cast further doubt on the fairness of the inquiry's process."

Schiff should allow Hunter to testify. He has done nothing wrong. So what if he was placed on the board of Burisma Holdings because of his father? That has been going on since the Roman empire. Trump has two senior advisors that are family. One is his daughter, the other his son-in-law. Republicans are now going to argue this is somehow wrong. I wonder how Trump will feel about that.

 

What you mean is that we are an important ally for Ukraine.

Yes proof is only important if the subject of an investigation is a liberal.

 

As usual Trump get it wrong or is just plain lying. One is just as bad as the other.



Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump

Corrupt politician Adam Schiff wants people from the White House to testify in his and Pelosi’s disgraceful Witch Hunt, yet he will not allow a White House lawyer, nor will he allow ANY of our requested witnesses. This is a first in due process and Congressional history!

10:58 AM - Nov 10, 2019

So something is wrong because Schiff wants people from the White House to testify? Really? What does that say about Trump's guilt and incompetence?

Schiff won't allow a White House lawyer to testify? What is Trump talking about? He is the one preventing witnesses to testify, witnesses like Mulvaney and Bolton. What White House lawyer?

Actually, Schiff has not made any determination yet on the Republican witness list. So, once again, his entire tweet is a lie.

Is anyone surprised?

Trump continues to incriminate himself. He is too stupid to learn to keep his mouth shut.

 

Excellent analysis, although the above quote should have said "partisan political vendetta against Trump." No one is thinking about the last election. They are thinking about the impeachment charges and Trump's total incompetence. Please see http://politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/america-can-no-longer-be-trusted.564050/

 

Dems have been hollering impeachment from day one. Anyone with a brain can't take them seriously.

 

When it comes to current issues, apparently you are uninformed. I will not become your news source, and I will not explain the obvious. Sorry about that.

 

Facing Trump's obvious guilt, the White House is tearing itself apart. The messy skirmish could be on full display this week.

The Post reports, "Acting Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney has urged aides not to comply with the inquiry and blocked any cooperation with congressional Democrats. Top political aides at the Office of Management and Budget, which Mulvaney once led, have fallen in line with his defiant stance, the officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity to talk freely about the behind the scenes developments.

"Mulvaney’s office blames White House counsel Pat Cipollone for not doing more to block other government officials from participating in the impeachment inquiry, as a number of State Department officials, diplomats, and an aide to Vice President Pence, have given sworn testimony to Congress.

"Cipollone, meanwhile, has fumed that Mulvaney has only made matters worse with his Oct. 17 news conference, when he publicly acknowledged a quid pro quo, essentially confirming Democrats’ accusations in front of television cameras and reporters, and Cipollone did not want Mulvaney to hold the news conference."

The Times writes, "Mulvaney, the acting White House chief of staff, on Monday abruptly withdrew his effort to join a lawsuit over impeachment testimony after a sharp collision with his colleague, John R. Bolton, the former national security adviser.

"Mulvaney’s retreat came hours after a lawyer for Mr. Bolton argued in court papers that the acting chief of staff should not be allowed to jump into the existing lawsuit as a plaintiff because his interests are significantly different. The legal schism underscored a broader rift between Mulvaney, who facilitated Trump’s effort to pressure Ukraine, and Mr. Bolton, who tried to resist it."

Trump and his Republican defenders are feuding. Current and former state department officials will testify on camera this week, relaying their firsthand accounts claiming Trump withheld military aid to get Ukraine to investigate the Bidens. Trump's own chief of staff confirmed that fact. On Twitter Trump warned his party that they should not “be led into the fools trap of saying it was not perfect, but is not impeachable.” Trump insists the call was "perfect."

Trump refuses to face reality. He incriminated himself as is proven in the transcript provided by the White House. The President cannot face that reality.

 

Right now the nation is divided pretty much 44-44 on impeachment and removal. I don't see that moving much unless there is a bomb shell explosions brought forth. What those favoring impeachment is trying to do is to get that 12% that are in the not sure, undecided column or just plain don't give a darn to come off their fence. The Trump side is trying to do the same.

Regardless, I don't see how the democrats gain, gather enough Republican senators, they need 20 if all Democrats vote for removal which isn't going to happen. It is very possible the Democrats have two defections. Jones, Alabama where Trump's approval is at 60% and Manchin, West Virginia where Trump has a 61% approval. That means 22 GOP senators would be needed to vote for removal. I'd say 4-5 is probable.

I think the Democratic House impeaching Trump will energize Trump's supporters, the senate acquitting Trump will energize the Democrats. Being the Democratic party is still the larger of the two major party, the bottom line is this may actually help the Democrats. Too early to tell. With 30% of all independents, independents make up 40% plus of the electorate, the non-affiliated still on the fence, how they view impeachment is huge when it comes to November 2020.

 

I didn't ask you to do anything. You invented that.

 

There’s a Surprisingly Plausible Path to Removing Trump From Office
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/11/12/path-to-removing-donald-trump-from-office-229911

It would take just three Republican senators to turn the impeachment vote into a secret ballot. It’s not hard to imagine what would happen then.
..................................................................................................................................
If the vote were held in secret would it be unanimous for impeachment?

 

Highly respected Republican rep Peter King from New York has quit. He gave the usual B.S.about wanting to spend more time with his family.

The 75-year-old Republican says he intends to still be politically active. So, why is he quitting? By resigning his post, he will have no impact on politics. There is only one possible explanation as to why the moderate Republican is quitting, and his name is Trump.

King is the 23rd House Republican who has quit or will quit in terms of the 2020 election. They join over 40 Republicans who quit before the 2018 election, providing the reason why Democrats took control of the House.

 

Politico reports, "Five sitting Republican senators have already announced their retirements."