When assessing Trump’s guilt or innocence...

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by robini123, Nov 7, 2019.

  1. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Ad hominem.
     
  2. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    I never claimed that he is guilty of a crime.
     
  3. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Since when does being a candidate for office make you exempt from an investigation into corrupt practices on your part. The available all but screams that family Biden at the very least violated the emoluments clause
     
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  4. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    I never claimed that Biden is exempt from an investigation. I claim that it is unethical for Trump to set it up or play a part in it as Biden may be running against Trump come the next election. There is no requirement for Trump to play any part in the investigation. It Trump were a democrat investigating a republican then the right would be singing a very different tune. One set of rules for the "in" group and another for the "out" group. Same applies to the left. The left and right are biased to the core.
     
  5. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    You can't really impeach him without Treason Bribery or another High Crime. If they don't have a statutory crime, why the election year push to impeach rather than simply leaving him to The Voters?
     
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  6. Esperance

    Esperance Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    "Tribalism," is a PC term that has nothing to do with the Clausewitz triad.

    Trump's policies are simply not driven from the top down like the ideological driven Progressive policies that we have become used to over the past decade.

    The new, "Movement," is snatching a variety of former identity aligned Democrat voters.

    Many of those who have seen the light are not affiliated with #Walkaway or Turning Point USA, but they are starting to change their voting preference in larger numbers.
     
  7. Esperance

    Esperance Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your question poses a few possibilities, but the results all play out to the reality that Trump will not be removed from office in spite of a few RINOs that might go along with the hype.

    My personal impression is that the whole ploy is an attempt to leverage the attention away from all of the corruption that will be revealed by the Horowitz report and the added Durham indictments that will follow.

    Looking at the big picture, Trump seemed willing to let the dirty deeds of the Dems flow under the bridge and out of sight upon taking office.
    It is therefore kind of ironic that the never ending tactics and attacks of the Dems have served to expose way more corruption than most people would have even dreamed was possible.
     
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  8. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    He isn't and doesn't. The last was never part of the deal and wasn't necessary that it be.
     
  9. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Dems do not deserve any consideration for their coup attempts. Nothing they have done is legitimate so far. Even giving them the benefit of the doubt at this point is dangerous. They have proven themselves to be deceitful and power hungry.
     
  10. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Some claim there was "Treason Bribery or another High Crime" and it is predictable that Trump supporters will say there is no crime yet they would be singing a different tune if a democrat were president and investigating a prominent republican who they may run against in the next election. It is also predictable that democrats say that "Treason Bribery or another High Crime" were committed, yet if a democrat were president then they would have never began an impeachment. Tribalism makes partisans predictable.

    I argue that any who have a vested interest in the outcome of an investigation should not have any part in said investigation. To do otherwise is to openly invite bias and is thus unethical.
     
  11. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    Are you saying political parties should not have a bias? :roflol:

    Highly respected Republican rep Peter King from New York has quit. He gave the usual B.S.about wanting to spend more time with his family.

    The 75-year-old Republican says he intends to still be politically active. So, why is he quitting? By resigning his post, he will have no impact on politics. There is only one possible explanation as to why the moderate Republican is quitting, and his name is Trump.

    King is the 23rd House Republican who has quit or will quit in terms of the 2020 election. They join over 40 Republicans who quit before the 2018 election, providing the reason why Democrats took control of the House.

    Politico reports, "Five sitting Republican senators have already announced their retirements."
     
  12. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    No, simply referring to the arguments already made in this thread. You are unable to maintain a logical consistency that equality applies to the other side if roles were reversed; exactly the situation you were trying to pin on the right.
     
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  13. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Tribalism is a social science term and demonstrably true that predates the Trump presidency. I can back the claim up with sources if you like.
     
  14. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Election rigging is a hallmark of the DP.
     
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  15. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Trump supporters are not at all fond of Republican politicians.
    In fact, Democrats are a critical part of Trump's core base of support - ditto, anti-establishment Independents.
     
  16. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    I am saying that investigations should be objective no matter if it is an investigation into Biden or Trump. I have listened to the right for years rightly criticize the left for their bias yet then give Trump and republicans a pass on their own bias. Tribalism where there is one set of rules for the "in" group and another for the "out" group.
     
  17. stone6

    stone6 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Impeachment is a political process...but ALL politics is not partisan. We are a nation under law, not political parties. I would say the Biden portion of the quid pro quo is basically a partisan issue; whether or not the Russians interfered in our 2016 election is a national security issue, which should be bi-partisan. But, in either case, the law will determine the outcome.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019
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  18. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Trump's supporters like to see establishment Republicans and Democrats slither out of the DC Swamp.
     
  19. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    And the whole tribalism argument misses the fact that Trump's base includes the anti-establishment "right" and "left".
     
  20. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Political loyalty has already predetermined that Trump is innocent. Right now the democrats and republicans are just going through the motions when we all know how the Senate will vote. That is not justice, that is an object example of tribalism in that party loyalty trumps loyalty to country.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019
  21. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    Neocons have figured out that their screwing Republicans is done the collapse of the Weekly Standard was the beginning of the end. They won't have and can't have much impact any more. There inability to win more people to there odd views meant their days were always numbered.
     
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  22. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    "Party loyalty" has nothing to do with Trump's political success or his innocence.
    The inability of our corrupt political class to figure that out gives Trump a significant advantage.
     
  23. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    I argue that political loyalty is what leads to political corruption. Placing party before country is evidence of corruption within the party. Loyalists confuse loyalty to party as being loyal to country.
     
  24. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Our corrupt bipartisan ruling political class and its minions in the Deep State is united in its hatred for DJT.
    The "party loyalty" act is, for the most part, just a fund raising tool.

    “In his Washington Post column, Dana Milbank (a friend!) wrote that “if Washington's political culture gets any more incestuous, our children are going to be born with extra fingers’.” Mark Leibovich, This Town, Penguin Books, 2013, p. 213.
     
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  25. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In legal circles this is what's called an open and shut case.

    "Federal law prohibits a foreign national from directly or indirectly making a “contribution or donation of money or other thing of value” in connection with a U.S. election, and prohibits a person from soliciting, accepting or receiving such a contribution or donation from a foreign national. Federal law defines “contribution” to include “any gift … of money or anything of value made by any person for the purpose of influencing any election for Federal office.” And the FEC by regulation defines “solicit” to mean “to ask, request, or recommend, explicitly or implicitly, that another person make a contribution, donation, transfer of funds, or otherwise provide anything of value.”
    https://www.justsecurity.org/66277/the-quid-is-a-crime-no-need-to-prove-pro-quo-in-ukrainegate/

    The irony here is Mueller declined to prosecute Donnie J for his solicitation of foreign assistance from a foreign national due to the difficulty in accessing the value of the dirt on Hillary he sought and due to ignorance..........................................................................................................................................of the law.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019

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