WHEN?

WHEN AMERICA?

After watching the hearings today, I can't think of a more appropriate question: When do Citizens of the United States of America grow the hell up and start behaving like Adults long enough to simply do the right thing because the right thing is the right thing to do?

We have so many Manchildren and Womanchildren wandering the streets of our nation pretending to be grown up. Having adult bodies but the mind of a 7 year old underneath. When? Some of us live in a world of complete denial of truth, yet profess to be part of a nation that extols the virtues of truth and justice. When? Pretending that $22 Trillion in debt is normal and ok, while coddling a tyrant as President. When? A Congress completely inept in every single way, a politicized Court System and an Executive Branch gone completely rogue. When? A Media Establishment that literally engages in Socialist Propaganda and the Social Engineering of a morally corrupt nation of people too dumbed down to know they are being literally programmed for failure. When? No trust, care or maintenance of the United States Constitution, a hell bent march towards making the Citizens of this country less safe and unable to protect themselves, abortions into the Millions and a Public Educational System that has become an abomination of desolation. When?

When do you the American People get sick and tired of being sick and tired. When?

I can't take anymore of this. I am disgusted by the willful neglect of common sense and better judgement that We The People put no display for the entire world to scoff and mock at every single day of the week. I am sickened to the core of my being. When does Common Sense have its day in America? I loathe watching the real-time decay of our Republic into a morass (emphasis on the suffix "a-s-s") of weakened posterity no more emblematic or resembling of that which the founders originally intended for our Republic, than the movie 300 accurately resembles anything having actually taken place at Thermopylae. When?

When do you the American People decide collectively (Left, Right and Center) that you have had enough of having enough up to your eyeballs. When? How much longer can this Republic tolerate the universal strain that it places on credulity? How do we wake up each morning, look ourselves in the mirror and collectively agree to breathe a sigh of relief that we are somehow headed in the right direction, doing the right thing, making forward progress and designing a future worthy of our yet unborn children's children?

You are allowing the System to rule you in every way imaginable and in ways that you have yet to figure out or to fully understand. Please stop doing that before we lose everything worth fighting for - meaning - before we lose the Republic in its entirety.

Renewing the health of the Republic and sustaining it into the future is all that matters now. When will you grow up long enough to admit and act on that solitary fact. When will you cease the adolescent politicization of every gad damn thing your minds can fathom. When?

You are literally in the act of throwing it all away and you can't even see it for what it is. Why?

 

Sounds like you're ready to get out there and burn some Flags.

Go get em tiger!

 

I think we should all march on Washington and kick out every politician and career bureaucrat in sight. Burning flags is a bit too cliche at this point in our nation's history. Our government is destroying our Republic, bankrupting your unborn children's children and making us the laughing stock of the entire known Universe. At this point, there must be Aliens on other planets now laughing at our rank silliness. When do we decide we've had enough to permanently alter the course of Washington and by doing so, renew the Republic for which it used to stand - one nation indivisible and justice for all.

It seems to me that many have become accustomed to living (wandering) in total denial about just how Reprobate we've become with respect to the true health of our own Republic. When does that denial end and what will it take to end it? Do we need a new Civil War? I used to be anti-civil war. I don't know anymore. Maybe that's what we need before we all wake the hell up and go about the business of restoring our Republic.

We have a totally divided country, a completely broken an dysfunctional government, a national debt that will never be repaid, we are technically and for all practical purposes bankrupt as a nation and yet, we believe ourselves to be what - Winning? That's beautiful. That's just beautiful. How delusional must we be to continue enduring this nightmare.

Mark my words. Our felt collapse will be far, far, far worse than that of the United Kingdom. We need to get a grip on ourselves and we need to get a grip now - before it is too late.

 

Well said, and this is a proper question for all to ask. The nation is not a separate entity, it is the combined body of it's people- all the people. IF we were all individually responsible for ourselves and held ourselves to values and conduct that earned our own respect- we would have a nation with the same quality. It is up to us, whether we build and improve, or whether we tear down and degrade the country. I can only do my part, you can only do yours. But if we all did, the nation would come together in a way that brings great benefits to each and every one of us.

 

Agreed. We need a Zero Party System. We need to rip "Political Party" from the entire fabric of Government. We need a Management focused government hell bent on accuracy, transparency, efficiency and optimized function at all levels. A government that adheres to the United States Constitution in its entirety and one that is never allowed to bankrupt the American People, ever again. This means radical change in both Fiscal and Monetary policy across the board and the proper control of spending in every facet of government. Political Parties would be outlawed in government, if I had my druthers. They are outdated constructs having become warped and useless for the purpose for which they were originally created.

Start with dismantling that mindset in Americans and we'll have a fighting chance.

 

The British example would work.

Platforms, (Labor, Conservative) then dozens of parties vying for the vote to the platform, (primaries) then the General Election.

 

I agree. This is the crux of the matter.

At the core we are rotten. Therefore, our nation suffers the same disposition. Getting through to a sufficient number of People, such a message, is the core problem. Brainwashing by way of Social Engineering is the primary reason behind this. People don't know what they don't know. Therefore, People can't solve what they cannot perceive as a problem when they've been programmed to consider that which is abnormal as normal. Therefore, getting people to the event horizon of truth is the first step. Getting them to take the plunge into black hole of truth, so they can emerge on the other side whole and intact is a scary thing for most when all they've ever known are a lies, distortion, misinformation, disinformation and corruption as that which is presented to them as "normal." In such a case, the truth really does look like a scary black hole and traversing the event horizon seems not only unnecessary but outright foolish.

So, as a direct result, we now have a society in the aggregate that believes it to be foolish and scary to dismantle a government that has placed it more than $22 Trillion in debt. If it were not so morbidly sad, it would actually be funny. This is why real change is so hard and why the inertial effect of the "now moment" is so difficult to bring to light as being a false path leading to only our ultimate destruction as a healthy, functioning Republic. Ergo, the Social Psychology of real change becomes extremely difficult to alter.

I believe it can be done. However, it would take generations and most probably some kind of bloodshed on American soil whereby the combatants are Americans themselves. It is sad that people have to suffer such calamity before awakening to the necessary alternative that truly sets them free.

 

I think what would ultimately happen is that Platform would replace Party. Right now, we have Party first, Platform second - and it still does not work for the benefit of all. The "labeling" of governmental function is what I think needs to be removed. The pitting of one faction against another sits at the core of conflict of interest whether Platform or Party oriented. I think we need more radical change than that.

I call for a Total Management Structure form of Government at the National level. This would set aside all factions and focus only on the Management Functions of a Central Government. What government does on behalf of the country would be determined via National Independent Vote (NIV). It would be a real Independent Democracy at the national level. Congress would be transformed into the nation's Management Body. National Managers, not Congressmen or Congresswomen, would be hired merely to perform the perfunctory roles established via National Independent Votes. That is, these National Managers would be Constitutionally required to do nothing more than manage the affairs of the country according to the NIV vote tally on every single issue The People, decide to bring up for a vote.

Now, this is scary to many because it requires (demands) that every Citizen take personal responsibility for participating in every single NIV. And, this is also the problem with such a system. We have produced so many people in this country who now abdicate their personal civic duty that converting to a system that requires the Individual to participate at the highest levels of Government is a scary thing. They would rather "abdicate" and "defer" to an Elected Official or Elected Representative to make decisions on their behalf. This is also the proverbial Catch 22.

This comes down to two words: True Freedom.

We are living proof that we don't want True Freedom. We want some facsimile thereof, but not the real thing. The real thing requires the participation of every single Citizen and we just don't have that level of core personal responsibility running deep enough in our veins to make that happen right now. This goes back to the brainwashing, programming and social engineering efforts of those who maintain the status quo. So, like so many sheep we are led to the slaughter - Fiscal Year after Fiscal Year.

 

I have been an American for a very long time. I have worn its uniform, paid its taxes and watched America dumbing down for a couple decades. The historian Jon Meacham coined a new phrase, "The post-literate age." Meacham argues the "art" of reading, writing, and searching for facts is nearly dead in America. Many Americans want their news and facts spoon fed to them so the pain of learning is avoided. Will Hurd (R-TX) is leaving Congress because, in his words, 'half the guys (in Congress) are surprisingly dumb.' After watching today's hearings, I have to agree.

Adam Schiff did a masterful job of keeping things moving and on track. The Democratic Counsel was short and relevant. And that is about where the story ends. The Republicans took every opportunity to move off topic and endlessly attempt to detract from witness testimony. But, but Obama, Hillary, the 2016 election, young Biden, the whistleblower. That's what happens when you become a brain dead ideologue and drink too much cool aid. The Democrats seem unable to ask coherent questions and were mostly an embarrassment. Collectively, these guys wouldn't last six months in a real job. My reaction -- jeezus who voted these people in? The problem was that the witnesses were taking these people to school and they couldn't handle it.

I will take a wild guess and estimate half the Congressmen/women have great difficulty getting ready for work. Most of these people give the impression that they have never read more than a cocktail napkin; certainly not The Constitution. When a nation allows itself to grab every conspiracy theory and and their AM radios, the end is near. Then there is their fearless leader. When a minority of Americans voted for Trump they would have done less damage if they set off a hydrogen bomb over the Super Bowl. Surrendering America's leadership on the word stage is a criminal act. It's like taking a bucket of urine to Arlington National Cemetery and tossing it on the graves of our fallen.

America has gone through tough times before -- Civil War, WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam. Each of these created major social and economic upheavals from which Americans recovered. I'm reminded today of of an ancient proverb that 'You can win a war with an army of asses lead by a lion, but not the reverse.' That may not be so easy to rectify.

 

Obviously you didn't bother to read all that tripe.

He's bitching about everything (kinda like a confused child trying to understand the world). He's a nihilist

But what's funny is that he's also (among everything else) bitching about your Orange Hero and the compliant GOP Congress as well as the politicized Judiciary that your Orange Hero and Moscow Mitch have engineered.

Too funny

 

Here, I'll finish the sentence for you: "...of Treason." And, we did it to ourselves.

Indeed, it is that and so painful to watch.

I think the proverbial cat has 9 lives. I honestly believe we have exceeded the limit of the Universe's continual get out of jail cards. We have negative economic, monetary and fiscal policy scale today that dwarfs any period in our nation's history. Couple that with the Dumbing Down Effect that's taken place over the past many decades (now systemic) and we have a recipe for an unrecoverable flat spin leading to (potentially) 3rd world status or 2nd world at best. I don't think we have the same moral core in the aggregate as the generations who secured previous peace and posterity for the nation. We have a different breed of "American" on our hands today. Selfish, self-centered, arrogant, brash, haughty, unlearned, unwilling to admit error and seemingly incapable of choosing right over wrong - in far too many cases. Not all, but far too many like that make up the Electorate today.

Where we go from here is a scary proposition. I don't like what I see on the horizon. I see some real pain and suffering on American soil and that bothers me a great deal. I see things getting a lot worse before they get better and that could very well be sufficient to finally snap the camel's back. I hope I'm wrong. There is so much damage done to the national psyche of unity that the pathology of disunity and discontinuity is the new norm.

Who drives the narrative of extant ideological differentiation? This is where the fault resides. In fact, in truth, I don't even know if differential ideological riffs are what's causing the meltdown anymore. I think there is something even more toxic underneath it all. There is a genuine anti-social order inculcating the lives of many people right now in this country (or, disorder). The level of fracture and faction taking place in this country is astounding. But, it is more than that. There is a genuine lack of solidarity around the notion of what it means to be a US Citizen - what it means to be an American.

I think that would be a good starting point. What does it mean to be a United States Citizen anymore? I think I lot of people don't even contemplate that question anymore. It is almost as if there is this free for all mentality that has abducted the soul of America at this point. We need a National Goal we can all believe in. Something to pull people together instead of always something to pull people apart. When was the last time the United States of America was truly "United?"

 

The question I think you're asking is: how do we get regular folks who don't want power into power?

If I knew, I would've done it already.

 

We're more divided now, due to our politicians, than at the time of the civil war.
I'm saying, nothing is going to get better, without scrapping the entire system and starting over.

That's not hyperbole.

 

There's a line in "The Men in Black" movie- "The person is smart; but people are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it." That is the difference between people thinking for themselves independently- and people buying into the fears and bias of group-think. It takes strong people to be independent people- and weak ones to de dependent and easily manipulated. Human nature does not automatically make us strong- we have to develop that as we grow.... and in recent decades, the role models of parenting have failed to raise strong children, who then fail to raise strong children. True leadership knows this, and sets an example of strength, responsibility and reason. Not of perfection, but certainly not of the kind that promotes feeding off others and giving away your freedom for empty promises by unscrupulous politicians.
We have had a serious shortfall in both the environment we provided for our children, and the examples set by those in positions of leadership.

What has to be done must be done carefully and wisely. I fear we have too many idiots is congress for that to happen.

 

What's funny is the shortfall of your perception and the distortion of what you do see through your bias. That is a total cred shred.

 

Obviously, you can't read - at least not in context and not on the merits (either replied to or understood). Clearly, anyone failing to understand the "Houston, we have a serious problem" is also one failing themselves and the country as a whole.

Our nation's problems are vastly larger than Donald Trump's obtuse behavior and clearly vastly more complex than your obtuse theories about what I'm bitching about. Mine is a multi-dimensional look at what the hell ails the United States of America the Republic. Anyone believing the answer is a pure Left response, or a pure Right response is indeed part of the gad damn problem. This is my much broader point. Party Politics is literally, not figuratively, killing our Republic. The fact that anyone living here on a daily basis calling themselves an "American" who does not understand this for the face value that it offers *IS* the problem.

I'll give us 75 years. That's it. We got less than 75 years from today to get our collective s-h-i-t together or we will pay the piper through the nose of our arrogant neglect. Yeah, I'm bitching. I'm bitching because I give a damn. I care about the Republic that I and others like me have sacrificed dearly to maintain. That there are selfish and self absorbed people living in this country who refuse to admit that we have a Party Politic problem in this country is disgusting to me. That someone would rather hold on to some ideological dogma they can't even articulate rather than do the hard work of figuring out a way to heal the nation, is an abomination to common sense and better judgement.

You will rue the day that you failed to listen to wisdom when it came your way, if you don't change course of the nation right NOW. We are headed over the edge of a very steep cliff. Either admit wrong headed decision making got us into this mess now, or regret never having done so in the not so distant future. You will listen to the voice of reason someday. Right now, you think its a joke. Guess what? The joke is on those who think this too will pass. It wont. Things are dramatically today in the fabric of the nation. You have MILLIONS living here now who shed no tear when a Soldier falls, when a Hurricane wipes out an entire town, or when a Flood washes away the lives of thousands. It is that core of disconcerting lack of concern that is growing with a level and degree of intensity I've never witnessed before.

When you have a completely rogue Government, incompetent to the hilt, governing over a society such as that - then you my dear friend are headed for a nightmarish wake up call. It could easily come in the next economic crash - which because of the core and fundamentally warped mechanics of our current economy - will be far worse than the Great Depression of 29'.

I would strongly suggest that people educate themselves as to the principle and core reasons why we are failing to get out of debt as a nation. Why we are failing to unite as a nation. Why we continually grow further and further apart socially, politically and culturally as a nation. And, why we continually tolerate an inept Government that bankrupts us as a nation. If that's not something to bitch about, then delivery of that child who cannot figure out what's going on or why has already taken place in your life.

Your head is in the Lion's mouth and you are too blind to know it. Soon, you will have no head and your body will recount with fond memory just how silly the notion was that you were somehow in control of the situation as it falls to ground dead and lifeless. THAT is the current state of our Republic - whether you know it or not.

 

Nah God created the USA, just for this reason. He wants to see what we will do because the world is watching .

This tit for tat must come to an end

 

Interesting theory.

 

This gets to my question on the table: What does it really mean to be a United States Citizen?

My belief is that if one can't, won't or for some reason refuses to take Personal Responsibility to get involved and engage the process of Self Governance, then one should seriously consider leaving the United States of America. Either we collectively want real Freedom or we don't. Freedom means engagement in the process at every level. This means we cannot blame an Elected Official for $22 Trillion in debt. If the truth be told, it is a lot close to $200 Trillion but that's a different thread.

I'm saying that we cannot continue walking the path of abdicating our duty to maintain our Republic. We cannot rest on the notion that Big Daddy Government will take care of things for us. If Big Papa plays that role then Big Papa will want something in return - our Freedoms. We see this happening each legislative session here in California, at the State level. This is a microcosm of what will eventually take place at the National level. We've heard it said before, as California goes, so goes the rest of the country at some point. Here in California, Government is all consuming all the time and everywhere you look.

How did we allow "government" to get that big and that intrusive? The founders did not intend this - they wrote about that for those who care to read. They were suspicious of large scaling governmental bodies usurping the rights and doling out privileges of The People. The founders never agreed with the notion of a Central Bank controlled by Private hands. That was anathema to them - yet that is our daily existence in this country and it is draining (truncating) the wealth creation process of our Citizens.

People don't know what they don't know and what they don't know is hurting them - they just don't know they are being hurt as a direct result of what they don't know.

How do we get them involved? Hell, either war or famine. I'm sorry, but I just don't see any other way. At this point, we need drastic solutions for dyer problems that will be fatal to our Republic, if we don't do something now to prevent what is coming. And, it is coming. Oh, it is coming. Yep. And, it is coming more than likely through Total Economic Collapse caused by eons of piss poor Monetary and Fiscal policies. Eons of bad political policy now coming home to roost and BOTH political parties in this country are to blame. There is no one with clean hands in Washington. No one.

We need Total and Complete Reform. Absolute and unyielding Reform.

 

Man your post blows me away I read it like 8 times, trying to give a intelligent reply and a answer.

It cant be done unless I am 500 years old worth of wisdom

 

Make govt smaller.

 

Then we will have 20 million people out of work and we will have to pay for there welfare.

(Its a joke , but I wonder how many people really?)

 

They pay into unemployment like the rest of us. They'll find new jobs.

They might have to compete more, but I believe in them.

 

I'd happily feed them all feet first into a wood chipper while whistling Zippity Do Dah!