More than 200 rockets fired into Israel from Gaza after Islamic Jihad leader killed

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Thedimon, Nov 12, 2019.

  1. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    "Acted upon"? Source, please? And no, a picture of the soldier Oron Shaul, killed in Gaza in 2014, paraded in certain circles as an alleged Israeli colonel caught while helping ISIS, does not qualify as a source.

    Israel never acted against Assad, only against Iranian interests in Syria (Hezbollah included).

    No matter what you think about Israel and Zionists, even you have to admit we couldn't have survived this long if we didn't understand the ins and outs of the Middle East. Supporting an extreme Muslim Brotherhood offshoot like ISIS - when we're already the target of Muslim Brotherhood's hateful ideology for decades on our own territory - is unthinkable.

    When using a not so trustworthy source, one's post loses edge and credibility.

    This is common knowledge.

    You missed my point. Independent is quite biased against Israel. If they had even the shadow of o corner of proof that Israel had somehow supported Isis, they would have said so. But they mentioned Israel didn't support ISIS, which means there's really nothing to prove otherwise.

    Yes, it's possible to find some truths even in the most biased sources, if you know how to look and what to look for.

    The real story of the Sons of Iraq, written by the real director of the aforementioned think tank:
    https://www.meforum.org/2788/sons-of-iraq

    I'd suggest Clarion Project for a more balanced approach to the Assad-ISIS-Turkey-Iran interactions, if you can overlook their own biases. Wouldn't hurt to know both sides of the story, would it?
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
  2. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Isn't Jerusalem still an "international city" ?
    Aren't the Jews forbidden from worshiping ON THEIR OWN TEMPLE MOUNT?
     
  3. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I didn't click on the link. As I see it, if you don't like what someone is
    about to say you don't turn up for the talk.
    It's left-wing theatrics - coming from student who can't defend their
    own positions and wouldn't want live under Hamas rule, even if it
    ruled all of Palestine.
     
  4. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Justification is in the eye of the justifyer. I just can't support who consider my beliefs a crime.
     
  5. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So, Iran says Israel is a "one bomb country."
    But this one bomb will spare the Jews and kill the regime.
    You are not being honest.

    How many big cities are there in Iran? If Israel is like USA,
    China and Russia, it will have targeting coordinates for the
    nations who it sees as threats.

    Everyone relies upon Israeli goodwill, even the Arabs. Odd.
    So Arabs can attack the Jews but sue for peace if it doesn't
    work out. But if the Arabs win they will slit the throat of every
    Jew - they say that. So tomorrow Arab nations will be nuclear
    and they will boast of wiping out the Jews - somehow the idea
    of the Jews wiping them out doesn't have traction. Oddly, the
    Jews aren't that kind of people - they are Westernize, liberal
    democratic types who bleat about peace and security all the
    time.

    If I was Israeli PM I would take the time to show the Iranians
    the nuclear targeting data, and the estimated Iranian casualties
    which will happen should Iran go to war with Israel. Get if over
    and done with I say.
     
  6. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    No, I can't provide a link. This is something I know from books I've read. Jews from Europe might have been the majority right after WWII for a short while.

    As far as I know, Zionists never called themselves Colonialists. Do you have a source for this?

    "The struggle between Jews and Zionists"? Seriously? This is an extremely biased title.

    I can't read the article as I'm not willing to subscribe to that site.
     
  7. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Check this:
    "On December 6, 2017, US President Donald Trump announced the United States recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel[1] and ordered the planning of the relocation of the U.S. Embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.[2][3] Benjamin Netanyahu, the Prime Minister of Israel, welcomed the decision and praised the announcement."

    BUT continue reading here

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_recognition_of_Jerusalem_as_capital_of_Israel

    As to worshiping on the Temple Mount read here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Mount_entry_restrictions#1967_to_the_present

    You are right, Jews are not allowed to pray there, but they guard and control the site.
     
  8. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    I already alluded to this: the sources with actual knowledge of what I am referring to, would be from places Israel's considers its enemies and hardly ones you will consider credible. These would be folks involved in fighting ISIS on the ground.
    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/269399
    Rouhani: Israel supports ISIS

    You are now alluding to Israel actions after Assad had already basically won the Syrian civil war, namely what Israel has been doing (with Russian acquiescence and even cooperation) the past couple of years.

    But Israel was involved in the plans to oust Assad from power from the beginning, viewing Assad's regime and its ties with Iran and Hezbollah as the reason for seeing Assad removed. That is, if Assad refused to sever his ties to Iran and the axis of resistance -- something which Assad did refuse despite several rounds of negotiations led by various foreign leaders in the years leading up to the Syrian civil war.

    If you want, I will try to cover and open up that part of the story for you at length, with all the sources you will need.

    I absolutely don't agree with this. In my opinion, Israel is clueless about the region, mainly because the groups and individuals who give it a view of the region are themselves clueless about it too. Israel has survived this long only because of what the "Zionists" have been good at, namely how to work within the institutions of various European powers and now the US, to give it whatever it has needed. And that has shielded Israel from the consequences of its foolishness but it won't be able to save Israel forever.
    The "lesser of two 'evils' [sic]" argument was behind Israel's actions. Israel's role in cahoots with the neocons in the overall policy of empowering Sunni jihadist movements as a way to counter Iran is clear as day to me and the genesis of it was well covered by Seymour Hersh in his article "the Redirection" in the New Yorker published in 2007 (which has withstood the test of time quite well). That said, I don't want to overstate the case either. There were others, in particular many of the Sunni Arab states in the region, which had the operation lead when it came to a actually financing and arming and supporting these groups. Israel's role was critical in terms of the overall blueprint agreed between the Saudis, the US, and Israel (long before the Saudi-Israeli cooperation came out in the open), but marginal operationally.

    What is common knowledge, in that case, totally negates what you had said earlier! These groups the Israelis were supporting (the dozen rebel groups) included clearly (and without doubt) Sunni jihadist groups of the same ilk you imagine Israel would never work with. They just had a rival leadership and weren't pledging allegiance to Baghdadi, which meant they had a different label than ISIS.

    Actually, as long as you apply what you suggested, namely trying to extract the truth from biased sources, the one you have cited below would be helpful to form the picture you need to form. Read it carefully -- and consider what I had outlined for you earlier when it came to the Sons of Iraq (and overall agenda from the Redirection) and its connections to the rise of ISIS. Then form your own conclusions, trying to be guided by true understanding and enlightenment as opposed to the narrative you feel best advances some cause.
     
  9. TheKeefer

    TheKeefer Active Member

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    There never was a independent state of Arab Palestine.

    There never was a Arab Palestinian culture.

    The land of Palestine was synonymous with the The land of the Jews as renamed by the Romans.

    There never was a Arab Palestinian political entity or Arab Palestinian gov't.

    There was never anything Arab called Palestine.

    The Romans ran off the remaining Jew's in the year 135 to extinguish any remaining Jewish bond with the land for all time. They also renamed all parts the land. Look up "Plishtim"

    There were no Arab Muslim's in any of the biblical texts of Christianity or Judaism....right? That is because Islam didn't come along until almost 600 years after the Jew's were driven from their lands.





     
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  10. TheKeefer

    TheKeefer Active Member

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  11. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Well-Known Member

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    Not just Israel, but even the US, have told Iran through their channels all of what you are trying to say in terms of brandishing their nuclear cards. They don't need to do it more publicly than they have already, simply because that would then undercut the fraud that is the basis for the entire NPT. That is one of several reasons Israel even gets away with some of what it does.

    The thing you don't realize, however, is this: the damage Israel can do to Iran even with nukes is matched more or less by what Iran could do to Israel even without nukes. That produces the MAD environment we live in the ME right now, albeit one where one side (US/Israel) is working desperately to reduce Iran's deterrent capabilities to improve their room for maneuver and mischief in the region.

    In the meantime, this is an educational video about aspects of Iran's missile program, including those missiles which have been provided by Iran to the forces of "resistance" (Hezbollah and Palestinian groups). It is based on what was aired recently on Iran's state television, translated by MEMRI.

     
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  12. Jazz

    Jazz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    All this has been discussed and debunked eons before. I'm not going to engage myself further with Hasbara nonsense. You Hasbarats are not here to debate, you just want to dump your prescripted BS, so you get paid.
     
  13. TheKeefer

    TheKeefer Active Member

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    You come on here spouting off about Israel, and you can't even speak the truth about the historical aspects of the people and the land.

    Iran never gave a **** about the land of Israel until their Arab lunatic friend named "Arafat" started flooding "so called" Palestinians into Israel from Jordan and Syria to incite Arab violence on the Jews. "Them mullah's loved them some Arafat"
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2019
  14. TheKeefer

    TheKeefer Active Member

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    It never has been debunked by other than anti Semites.
     
  15. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The RELIGIOUS MEN in Iran, the ones who attacked Arabia, support Yemen, back the
    Taliban, set up drone and missile bases in Syria, sneak missiles in Lebanon, threaten
    shipping, undermine Iraq and sponsor terrorism around the world, play a dangerous game.
    These RELIGIOUS MEN play the game of asymmetric warfare. I am not sure what they
    plan on using a nuclear weapon for - but they are not like the French, English, Russians
    and Chinese who already have nuclear weapons.

    You speak of American "mischief." Ever seen those videos of Iranian speed boats playing
    chicken with the US Navy? Why do they do it? Because they know precisely the American
    rules of engagement. If president I wouldn't have such rules - if an American destroyer
    thought it was under attack - that's good enough reason to blow them out of the water.

    The tragedy for Lebanon would be the firing of Iranian missiles at Israel. It would lead to
    the total destruction of her infrastructure. No more roads, bridges, hospitals, power stations,
    airports, sea ports -- the works. Lebanon isn't worth the life of a single Israeli soldier. This will
    be done using conventional weapons. But the sooner nuclear weapons can be normalized
    the better I say. The longer it takes for nukes to be used on a routine basis the greater number
    of nations will be nuclear.
     
  16. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Pathetic gibberish .. anyone who disagree's with you is automatically labeled "anti Semite" wake up and get an argument that does not consist of logical fallacy.
     
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  17. TheKeefer

    TheKeefer Active Member

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    You offered your opinion in your initial comment to me............not facts.

    History is on Israel's side of the argument.

    There never has been a Palestinian anything.
     
  18. free man

    free man Well-Known Member

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    Ye, ye, ye...
    The only thing that matters is that in 1970s Iran's gdp per capita got as high as 10,000$ while today it is half.
    Your revolution got Iran's citizen to be poor and helpless, the only thing that makes them happy is crying "death to America".
    You lost 50 years of development.
    Just a comparison, Israel's went from 15,000 to 35,000, Korea went from 4,000 to 25,000. Even Iraq went from 2,000 to almost 6,000.
    50 years of loss, why lose another 50 ?
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2019
  19. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    @WillReadmore, no, there's no war being raged against Israel is there! Where would anyone get that ridiculous idea from? :roflol:
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2019
  20. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You called a poster "anti Semite" simply for disagreeing with your opinion.

    What History is on Israel's side of what argument ?

    The above above is obviously false. The word Palestine is derived from the Philistine peoples who had a presence there over 3000 years ago. Today there are a people who call themselves the Palestinians and they occupy a region in Palestine.
     
  21. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    America wouldn't make such a deal, so I'm really confused about why you think Palestinians should.

    Plus, let's remember that Israel has been stealing Palestinian land for DECADES now.

    Israel even demanded the right to continue stealing more land as a prerequisite for negotiations on borders!!!! Seriously!!
     
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  22. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I can see why you didn't cite my post!!!

    People will recognize your form of discussion.
     
  23. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, I believe Israel handed back some land to Jordan.
    And as part of final status negotiations Israel offers not
    only the equivalent in land at the 1967 borders had, but
    even right of return - but the Arabs have to do something
    in return and that's to finally acknowledge the Jewish
    right to land as well as being the original inhabitants -
    that they will not do.
    Israel holds onto the Golan. Syria was offered this back
    in return for Israel's final security but the offer was
    soundly rejected. So fine, says Israel, you want to kill
    us all then we keep the strategic piece of land you need
    to control to kill us all.
    Gaza was offered Negev land - and a seaport, airport,
    industrial parks, economic partnerships -- everything.
    It could have been the hub of the Levant. But Gazans,
    like the West Bankers, just want the Jews gone. These
    Arabs didn't riot when Egypt ran Gaza, or when the West
    Bank was ruled by Jordan or even Turkey. There's a
    strong element of racism in all this - how do you negotiate
    with people who want you dead, who call you the sons
    of pigs and monkeys?
    So too with those Harvard students last week. Just
    racists underneath.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 16, 2019
  24. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Palestinians have done recognized the Jewish right to exist - right to the land - right to statehood.


    The above is a simplistic - and sometimes nonsensical - one sided perspective of a 80 year Blood Feud.
     
  25. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Really, the Arabs of the Palestine "recognized" Israel's right to exist?
    Odd that Arafat said his signing of the Oslo would have been the signing of his death warrant.
    And odd that Hamas rejected Oslo too - something about four Palestinians being killed in a
    car accident.
    Maybe you mean the Jews living in an Arab Palestine, under Muslim rule - and subject to the
    same issues Jews faced for 2,000 years after being driven out of their homeland.
    I would like people who speak to the "poor" Arabs of Palestine mention the 480,0000 Jewish
    refugees from seven Arab nations after 1948.

    ps the Syrians (or what is Syria today) have been Israel's bitter enemy, not for 80 years but
    about 3,000 years.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2019

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