U.S. Army Tries New Recruiting Tactics

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by Lil Mike, Sep 17, 2019.

  1. Creasy Tvedt

    Creasy Tvedt Well-Known Member

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    Simple, just let the Dems win in 2020. They'll tank the economy quick, and you'll have people lined up and begging to put on a uniform and collect a paycheck from Uncle Sugar.
     
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  2. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That user makes a lot of claims.
     
  3. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Ha I hear you. The Army took our flight suits years ago because "we didn't look like everybody else" and they didn't like that. I am nearly 100% convinced that most of the policies regarding Army aviators are pushed by disgruntled senior Enlisted and Officers who applied to become pilots and were rejected years ago and have a chip on their shoulder. Seriously, many of the policies regarding aviation seem flat out based on resentment and little else. I'm not a young guy, been doing this a while, I get the "big picture", but I would love to sit down and have a discussion with key leaders who make some of these policies and genuinely ask them why. And see if an explanation can be given that doesn't include the words "fairness" or "equality". The Army is a ground warfare branch, it's focus is strictly on that with aviation being an afterthought and the redheaded bastard stepchild that the rest of the Army envies and despises. Every ground force commander begs us to tag along with his men and be overhead when they call, yet we are treated like second class citizens by high command.

    Back when I was Enlisted my Squad Leader told me something that made all of the sense in the world. "Treat people special and they will act special, treat them as disposable and they will act disposable". That's a very fine line in the Army, and the military as a whole. The Army doesn't want you to get it in your head that you aren't expendable because it doesn't want you trying to buck the system. The needs of the Army will ALWAYS come first (as it sort of should) and they can't afford to give folks the leverage they want to negotiate things. So the Army beats it into your head that "you" don't matter as much as you think you do and the most commonly used phrased in my line of work is "Flight school starts every 2 weeks", meaning stop bitching, we can replace you. The problem is that the Army has been trying to call the bluff, so to speak, of Aviation for years now, and they are losing. Folks have been threatening to walk for years and the Army has refused to budge, not wanting to give Aviation what basically amounts of Union type power in the Army to negotiate for better lives. So when folks threatened to resign in droves the Army stood fast, then realized that folks weren't joking.

    Now we've hit a critical point. The Army knows what's wrong, in spite of what many lower level troops think you don't actually make it to General Officer levels of authority by being an idiot. The willful ignorance being displayed is just that, it's a desperation attempt to try ANYTHING else besides having to give in to the "demands" of aviators. Bonus money, revamping the way HRC PCS's folks, etc, they've tried it all, it's not working. They simply do not want to swallow the hard truth that they know is the core problem because that goes directly against the status quo. We don't want to be Soldiers, we want to be Pilots. In spite of what the Army wants, it doesn't get to have both, and they will kick and scream for as long as they possibly can before ever caving in to that.
     
  4. Up On the Governor

    Up On the Governor Well-Known Member

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    That’s really interesting that we have such similar issues. I assumed it was mostly because we act like more of a corporate entity than a military branch, and I’ve heard similar gripes from my friends in the Navy. It’s amazing that between all branches, leadership can’t sit down and figure out what the issue is. “I micromanage the hell out of my people and can’t figure out why they don’t respect me!”

    We get to retain the flight suit because of our ejection seats, which I’m sure is going to cause more resentment from non-ejection seat crew as soon as the OCPs (some dumb new uniform because someone needed a promotion) are mandatory. Don’t get me wrong, there are some issues that absolutely need to be resolved and the youngest generation in the military can help fix them. Watching the DoD handle gender issues is like watching an old drunk guy fumble around with quantum computing. Which makes my next point: we’re handling it all wrong and focusing on really dumb s**t.
     
  5. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Seeing how the problem is universal throughout the branches I come back to my original point of what I think the underlying problem is. The War on Terror. This is the super controversial opinion that I hold that many on the outside disagree with but I think that is the number 1 cause of these issues. To put it flat out, the DoD is simply asking too much as I said before. From reading the various articles in the Air Force Times it has been stated numerous times that AF pilots have gripes about the amount of deployments they are expected to do. It's listed as a leading contributing factor. I'm unsure about the gripes of the Navy and Marines but I can state with 100% fact that it's the same problem in the Army and it's probably the same for the others as well.

    I bid farewell to a young Soldier a few months ago who was headed to Afghanistan to fight a war that began before the kid was born. Literally. Go to any Army dress ball and the amount of combat stripes on everyone's sleeves is ridiculous. And we do LONG deployments because the Army always has to be different than everyone else. First it was 18 months, then 15 months, then 12 months, now we finally "settled" on 9 months. 2 deployments ago we had a JTAC attached to us. He showed up with us, redeployed home, did whatever he does in garrison, deployed back, and we were STILL THERE to greet him when the helo landed to drop him off. The amount of time taken away from folks lives is just too much. I understand it's our job, we fight wars, it's what we signed up for, etc. However, we are human beings, and there is only so much of one's life that we can REASONABLY expect them to give up for something. And the DoD has cashed that check years ago and is still asking for more. That takes a toll on lives and families.

    The only reason I am still around is because I have nothing else to do at this point. Not trying to gain sympathy points or anything but I lost my family years ago due to this optempo. One holiday morning they got on a plane and I never saw them again. It was the classic example of knowing what I do for a living and believing they could handle the chaotic lifestyle and realizing after a few years that it was just too much to handle. It wasn't a "family" in her eyes, it was merely "them" and a guy who popped in every once and awhile and was gone for years at a time who wasn't even "home" when he was home. And I am by no means alone in that boat, the amount of people I know with similar stories is alarming. Luckily for me it was a peaceful separation, unlike so many others who find out via drained bank account and plane tickets on the credit card while sitting in a tent in Iraq. So at this point I'm like screw it, I know this job and I do it well, I don't really want to start over, and it pays decent enough especially for a single guy. But for those left who still have families they are trying to hold together this is simply too much. We are in garrison right now, we are not deployed, there is no excuse why we have worked the past 5 weekends in a row. This is the sort of thing that the Big Army just doesn't want to address because they know it's a hard pill to swallow.

    From reading various articles throughout the years there is one common denominator that sticks out regardless of which branches' paper it comes from. Folks are tired of always being gone. As I said, people want their lives back. Figure it out or folks will keep walking out the door.
     
  6. Up On the Governor

    Up On the Governor Well-Known Member

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    You hit the nail on the head. 9 month deployments now? Is it 9 on, 12 off or something remotely acceptable? Right now we’re running exercises to be able to deploy within 48 hours. So instead of having the time to prepare your family, especially if you have kids, you’re going to have 2 days to get everything squared away. It’s ridiculous.

    And I’m in the same situation as you. I have a pretty niche job now that allows me to fly a lot, but I went through something similar. I came back from a deployment and my husband wasn’t on the flight line. I thought maybe he’s throwing a surprise party at home, but I walk in and no one is anywhere to be found. Just some paperwork I had to sign for the divorce, LOL. Threw my dog in a kennel instead of having one of my buddies watch it which is what actually pissed me off.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2019
  7. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    It's 9 on 12 off for many units. It all varies, and it's a roll of the dice if you'll end up in a unit like that. Some places do the legit 9 on 12 "off" rotation and have been doing it since 2001 non stop. Others deploy every 2 or 3 years, some places rarely ever deploy at all. And of course the Army doesn't do the whole "You've been in rapid deploy all over the world units for your entire career so we'll station you at a non deployable unit for a while" thing. When it comes PCS time they simply look to see if you've had the required dwell time (12 months) off. If you have then it's more than likely you're off to the next unit who is about to jump on a plane to go play in the desert or mountains. Or Europe now which has become the new void to fill for these rapid deploy always gone units because God forbid you sit your ass in the United States for very long. Thousands of Soldiers bounce around from rapid deploy base to rapid deploy base throughout their entire careers, they are the ones with 6, 7, 8+ combat stripes on their dress blues.

    And while "home" we do things like work 5 weekends in a row. Know you're about to head out for a 6 week long exercise? Want to get the last weekend off to spend with your family? Naw screw that, we'll SCHEDULE the damn thing to start on Friday. Oh and that work week leading up to it is a full work week too. "Why don't we start it on Monday so we can spend time with our families beforehand?" Someone stood up in the briefing room and asked that question directly. The response was a canned military style answer consisting of time management and making the best use of the time we allocated to maximize training value. In other words, we have no idea we just scheduled it like that because. We figured they would do it that one time then realize that was stupid and not schedule it like that again. Nope, fast forward a few weeks and they schedule another field training exercise to start on a Saturday here in a few weeks LOL.

    I swear so much of this stuff is done to deliberately force you to understand that you are not in a 9-5 job. Which I completely understand, sometimes things pop up and we have to work a weekend or two to catch up. But when they SCHEDULE things to start on weekends, TWICE, that goes beyond "**** happens we have to work this weekend to catch up". That's more like a deliberate middle finger to you for the sake of giving you the middle finger. People don't really mind having to be flexible in the military, we know it's not a normal job and things change and last minute stuff pops up all the time. But when the Army does things like purposefully schedule crap to start on your days off then that's when people get pissed off.

    And before anyone says it, yeah I am fully aware that the bad guys aren't going to decide to attack and start a war "when it's convenience for us during our scheduled work days". That is nowhere near a viable excuse for the Army to deliberately schedule stuff to start on a Friday that could be started on a Monday. That's not preparing troops to "expect the unexpected", that's simply pissing people off.
     
  8. Up On the Governor

    Up On the Governor Well-Known Member

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    That’s really f**king dumb but impressive in a way. Try getting the majority of the Air Force to do something on the weekend other than flyovers. Or after 4:00pm. Or Tuesdays, Thursdays and Fridays for finance.
     
  9. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Which is one of the main reasons why we always look at you AF folks with envious eyes, whether it's warranted or not. I was at my local bar a few weeks ago and I met a young AF mechanic who had just arrived here to the AF base nearby. We talked for awhile and I just sat back and laughed as I listened to this E-3 explain to me how much better his quality of life is than mine as an Officer in a different branch. Pretty much everything I said he was like "Our pilots never do anything like that...." Yeah no kidding guy.

    Even the so called "we are very badass" Marine pilot's don't get treated anywhere near as poorly as the Army treats their "Soldiers who fly".

    We just got the word that we will be conducting a field exercise in the coming weeks. We are not bringing the helo's though. A senior ranking aviator stood up in the brief and said "Um..we are AVIATION, what are we going out there for then?" To which the response from our senior E-8's and E-9's proudly exclaimed "To exercise our basic warrior tasks as Soldiers".

    "That's not our ****ing job!" shouts another senior ranking aviator. Arguing ensued and the all concluded with basically we're going stop complaining. And as directed from the senior Enlisted, no card games or anything like that will be allowed, all time will be spent training basic Soldier skills.

    So this will turn into another standard FTX with pilots throwing bean bags and watching movies and grilling (because we don't entertain "rules" that say we aren't allowed to do things like that) and dragging our civilian camp gear out (because we don't play the whole be uncomfortable for the sake of being uncomfortable because 1SG's said so nonsense). All of which will result in a massive waste of our time, we are aviators, we fly, if we aren't even bringing helo's out then we'll just be goofing off.

    It's a constant battle in the Army and has been for decades. Army vs Army Pilots. Ask any Senior Enlisted person in Aviation or Commander and ask who are the most frustrating people to deal with and they will all say the damn pilots. They don't listen, they don't follow rules, they do whatever they want, and they bitch all the time. That is largely correct, and the REASON is because Army pilots are not treated with the respect they deserve. So in return Army pilots give their middle finger to Army rules and regulations and since the Army needs pilots they basically just put up with it.

    The solution is simple, treat them appropriately and they will act appropriately. Treat your aviators with the same level of respect as you treat E-4s and they will act like 19 year old E-4s on purpose, only difference is we have the rank to actually get away with it because we outrank everybody who hates us. Improve the quality of life of pilots and they will improve their attitude and professionalism and likely stop walking out the door. Keep trying to make pilots be Soldiers and they will continue to toss "Army field stuff" out of the back of the truck to make room from the grill and the coolers when you make them go live in the freezing mud for no reason.
     
  10. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Army's new recruiting ads focus less on combat roles

    The Army's glitzy new recruiting campaign that kicked off on Veterans Day focuses less attention on combat roles and highlights lesser-known jobs like cyber warriors and scientists.

    The ads are intended to "surprise" the 17-to-24-year-olds of "Generation Z" and raise awareness of less-popularized roles in the Army at a time when a strong economy is making it difficult to find new recruits.

    I'm not sure how this helps. Gen Z probably doesn't have a lot of scientists or people who are trainable enough to be cyber warriors.
     
  11. Up On the Governor

    Up On the Governor Well-Known Member

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    It’s a good push considering the military is a great starting platform for people wanting to work in cyber and intel in the civilian world. This gives them the opportunity to get experience without having to take an unpaid internship out of college, which is what most people have to do now to work in alphabet soup.

    I also think the Army has pretty solid research programs in chemical and biological fields. I’m way outside my area of expertise with that but I’ve heard a good deal about it. Marketing these jobs is more likely to pique the interest of the younger generations than the “COME DRIVE A MOTHERF’IN TANK” stuff they had going.
     
  12. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    It's a good recruiting move in my opinion. Even today when the term "Army" is used a lot of folks still immediately envision Infantry or Tanks and the whole running and gunning lifestyle. It's off putting to a lot of people who don't want to do those things so it's good to shed more light on the lesser known roles and let folks realize that the Army is way more than grunts.

    The military will never be able to compete with the civilian market in any field but one thing the Army has going for it is the lack of prior experience required. The largest valid complaint that Millennials and Gen Z complain about is the difficulty in applying for jobs after college. The civilian market often has ridiculous entry level requirements that are virtually impossible for these kids to actual meet. The Army would likely take them with their degree only and will take those without degrees and train them in the cyber field.

    You'd be surprised at how tech savvy a lot of young folks are today even having never had any formal training. A few of the kids running around at my job are great with computers and are the go to folks for whenever someone has computer issues. They basically run a Geek Squad sort of thing out of their barracks room during their free time. Just read a few articles about companies being hacked and whatnot. It's usually not some professional coder doing that it's some teenager in his room. The other day I read an article about some kid in Europe who cracked a government sanctioned porn site age verification system thing in like 10 minutes. They put up an even more complex one after that and the same kid cracked that one and disabled it like 20 mins later lol.

    This cyber warfare stuff is the perfect career for them.
     
  13. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yea. A lot of these generational kids are perfect for offensive and defensive hacking. Many know proxie tricks that aren't taught in a school. It's like an underground training center for kids.
     
  14. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    It's a good career choice and a good way to gain some vital experience to meet the requirements for transitioning into the civilian market afterwards. Civilian entry level requirements are often hilarious and I certainly understand the frustration that comes from the Gen Z kids who are trying to apply for jobs. At least this way they will be able to check the block that says they have some experience in the field.

    Plus we really need this sort of thing in the military. Cyber and tech warfare is a very real thing and will only become more prevalent as time moves on. Our military runs on technology and computers nowadays and hacking us could do way more damage than attacking physically.

    We play around with this sort of stuff too. We did it back in Desert Storm. Our flyboys punched right through Saddam's air defense network with ease because a group of military nerds disabled the Iraqi radar sites by, as famously said in Independence Day, "giving them a cold".
     
  15. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yea. There's a new Cyber unit that popped up in VA. It's a reserve unit. Many of which are rumored to be 19 year olds that got their GED while spending their time hacking into smart phones.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
  16. Farnsworth

    Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    The U.S. had a population base of around 132 million in 1940. We mass produced all kinds of materiel, for allies as well, and fought and won on multiple fronts as well. We have a population of some 340 million now, with maybe 30 million criminal illegal aliens extra, almost 3 times 1940's population, and many of those 1940's base were not in the best of shape after a Depression, either. For all the noise about a 'boom', incomes haven't been rising much, and in any case won't rise enough to account for previous high inflation rates.
     
  17. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    I tried to enlist in 2008 at 27 years old, they would not take me. Someone recently said, If id'a tried again in 2010, I could have. I'm much to old, now.
     
  18. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In 2008, the max age limit was 31 years old (Age Waivers were also given as well for folks older- depending upon the area of enlistment).

    What was their reasoning?
     
  19. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    To further elaborate, I believe you the max age was 31 prior to shipping to BCT. So you could be on the verge of 32 without a waiver.
     
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  20. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    I was a bad boy when younger.
     
  21. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yea but in 2008 enlistment standards were very low. I enlisted in 07 and in my OSUT (basic training) unit we had felons.
     
  22. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    I think that if you would have tried again the next year they would have taken you. This was during the surge years where they just needed pure bodies and were taking damn near anybody with a pulse. During that era we had an NCO, being sick of going to war all the time, literally do cocaine and tell the brass about it. They drug tested him and he popped hot and instead of kicking him out they stripped a few stripes and said get your ass on the plane to Afghanistan next week lol.

    We also had a few "bad kids" with some very questionable history. They were waivering everything back then.
     
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  23. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yea. Nowadays if you're discharged and want to re-enlist, it's a huge hassle. Back then, I re-enlisted and it took like 14 days and I was at AIT lol.
     
  24. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    I also have many visible tatts, a large one covering my hand, no neck or face though, I was a very bad boy up until I was 25.
     
  25. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Our sniper was a good buddy of mine who had full tattooed sleeves including both hands and fingers. They really didn't care back then. The majority of the disqualifying stuff that you hear about today seriously didn't apply during that time. DUI's, drugs, assault, etc they just slapped you on the wrist and put you on a plane.

    Hell our platoon got into a legit drunken street brawl with a local gang that was so big it made the local newspapers. Brass fussed at us in order to appease PR and ended up hanging the paper in the office lol.

    I'm pretty sure anything less than a murder charge would get waivered back then lol. I can't confirm 100% but I am almost positive that a handful of our Privates that showed up were prior felons. The way they acted and talked about their history I'm positive they were some level of convicts.
     

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