A Question for Republicans: Who Is Donald Trump?

Yeah Democrat.

 

Until Trump came along conservatives in the US were go along to get along with the Dems and inexplicably caved to some of the most outrageous bullshit any political party has ever perpetrated against America. Now we know why. The Dems knew before the election that Trump was never going to play ball with them so they began and endless campaign of propaganda, intrigues and lies. When they failed to torpedo the election they ratcheted up their game by weaponizing the FBI and the CIA. They embarked on the most malicious, traitorous seditious, and criminal scheme in our nation's history. A hundred years from now this one act will be seen as one of the most vile acts ever in our history. Everyone involved in this conspiracy deserves a bullet in the head and in any other place but America that would have already happened. I'm absolutely sure that when this last action fails they will try to kill Trump. This is the filthy scum that you support. We didn't blow up conservatism but the houseboys in the Republican party got a wake up call. There will never be another lopsided "bipartisan" deal in our government ever again, chew on that. Who is Donald Trump and who are we? About now I'd say we are your worst nightmare.

 

Noam Trotsky? C'mon.

 

So the alternative would be let Hillary be president and start more wars? Jesus christ her hands was all over the war in Libya

 

uh who are you talking to? If it's me you're preaching to the choir and I don't get why.

 

And, that's the problem. You don't know your History. You don't even know where "Conservative" values come from, how they got into the so-called "Modern Republican Platform" nor do you understand the History that forged those principles into the Traditional Conservative Movement that was mainstream long before you were born and that stood on values that did not separate the country, but that attempted to unify the country. You problem is that you are part of the Walking Ignorant who does not understand extant Documented United States History. Ergo, trying to address your points is useless because they do not have a reality in real History.

Your statement is not in alignment with actual extant United States History with respect to how the Conservative Movement began. I will now take you to school. I will teach you what Real Conservatism looks like and you will know after this that your brand of Ultra Right Wing Nuttery does not equate to the underlying principles of Genuine Conservatism. I will use extant History to demonstrate and re-educate you. To truly re-educate and re-orient you to Genuine Conservatism would take many hours of Re-Programing your brain and deconstructing the bad programming you've had for most of your life, no doubt. But, I don't have hours to deal with this subject here. So, I will hit you with a short summary starting in the 18th Century about the source and origin of True Conservatism in this country.

Going back to before 1740, for a very long time this country had been dealing with the issue of Parliamentary taxation and the meaning of Sovereignty relative to the Colonies. The American Revolution, by 1775 (or 1765 depending on whether you include the Stamp Act) was not necessarily about money. However, it was more about the ability of the Colonists to retain their own wealth and wealth creation processes without paying homage to the royal crown. The British, after paying for the expense of the "7 Years War," then turned to the Colonists to help foot the bill. To pay for this war, the British Parliament taxed the Colonists in the areas of Official Documents or the production of Official Papers. From that act of Parliament came a tax revolt and the belief that there should be no central government taxation without representation. Of course, the Colonies had no vote in the British Parliament and thus had no say in such matters as external taxation flowing back to the British government. After much back and forth, the British Government eventually repealed that tax and Around 1767, the Stamp Act faded away. However, Parliament left a small tax on tea to remain levied upon the colonies that extended beyond 1772.

At this same time the British had always stationed troops inside the Colonies allegedly for the defense of the country despite the fact that the French had already been driven out. The Colonists were never satisfied with this forced mandate from across the Atlantic as they preferred to rely on the Voluntary Militia and did not appreciate the forced occupancy "Red Coats" living among them. The feeling the British were being too intrusive into the lives of the Colonists continued to grow. Ironically, the "Tea Tax" itself from an economic standpoint (contrary to the way historians talk about it today) was very small. Because British East-Indian Tea was being smuggled into the Colonies, undercutting the British tea monopoly, the tax having been collected in Great Britain had been repealed which mean that ships coming into GB no longer had to pay tax on the tea. But, there was a bigger idea at play here as far as the Colonists were concerned.

Though the revenues generated from the tea tax was a relatively small amount of money by comparison to flows in other areas of international trade, Great Britain was also using that money to pay Colonial Governors and the Colonists decried that fact. The Colonists increasingly wanted to control their own destiny with respect to Local Government. So, the real issue here was the Political concern the Colonists' had and not so much the force or weight of the tax itself. The Tea Tax in the Colonies levied by Parliament in Great Britain was largely symbolic.

In November of 1773, a Colonial Resistance began in Boston Harbor. Tea was tossed overboard, the "Intolerable Acts" began growing and the Boston Harbor was eventually shut down. The Resistance continued growing and eventually the legend and fable of Paul Revere riding on a horse declaring "the British were coming!" became a part of American History (when in fact, Paul Revere never said those words). The rest was history, but this was the crux of what would eventually give birth to a Conservative Movement on domestic issues in the Colonies at a later time. This began in earnest what I like to call the beginning of the end of the 'Rights Battles' leading up to the Revolutionary War. The Rights of Colonists -vs- The Rights of Englishmen are what in particular a member of the British Parliament made clear as his beliefs about what "Conservatism" meant. His name was Edmund Burke.

Edmund Burke, was the Parliamentarian in Great Britain who believed in traditional liberties and who agreed that the Colonists had the right to exercise their rights. Burke, represented those initial values that became the genesis of what would later be known as Traditional Conservative Values in early U.S. History. However, after the Treaty of 1783, politics here shifted to the domestic side having successfully broken away from the royal crown in Great Britain. Even though the British were defeated here, the battle over who gets to tax and how much the tax should be, became a sovereign issue that Alexander Hamilton and others wrote about in documents like the Federalists Papers. He stated that the Federal Government had the 'right' to tax the individual without regard for the States. This had not been legal previously under the Articles of Confederation. So, in stark real terms, the Federal Government simply replaced what the British Parliament had done previously to the Colonists. How ironic. History does indeed repeat itself.

Even more ironically, maybe, is the fact that all of this came out of the French Revolution, first. When we think of Traditional Conservatism, we can't help but look at Burke and his ideas on the French Revolution and their attempt to establish Parliamentary Monarchy. Burke, believed that you needed intermediary ranks in society including constructs around Personal Property and a foundation for individual respect for Authority. In other words, through Burke, you can see the origins of Conservatism as it eventually played out in the States at a later time. The Founders knew of Burke and his writers and no doubt were influenced by his writings whether admittedly so or not. Burke, also understood that which I talk about a lot on this forum - that Liberty is always preconditioned upon Personal Responsibility. You can't have a fully functional, healthy and growing Republic without those coupled ideas. Therefore, Burke, defended Authority in the context of its necessity to maintain a cohesive whole within the confines of Authority given by Popular Consent. Here again, before the founding of this country, we see the notions and ideas of Burke, at work. Burke, did not believe in Tradition at all costs, however. He believed that Tradition was important to protect Individual Rights and therefore Tradition would be conditional and restrained or focused (maybe a better term) on the Individual Rights.

The so-called "Conservatism" you practice today (or that is being passed off today as "real" and "genuine") is nothing more than sequestered, schizophrenic, myopic, selfish, self-centered, ideologically unsustainable and hopelessly nationalistic along lines of separatism. This is NOT the truth of Historical Conservative Values that went into the development of the foundation of this Republic my dear friend. You are missing some very key phases, moments and epochs in real World History that provided the foundations for what you now 'think' (all to often incorrectly) is American History.

Your mission (should you choose to accept it) is to go study everything you can about Edmund Burke and then come back here and tell me that the "Republican Party" you know and love so much today, resembles anything of Genuine Traditional Conservative values. When you are done getting yourself up to speed, then we can talk shop. Until then, you are not prepared to have this conversation with me on any grounds deeper than your own bath tub.

 

My response was unlike all of the other responses, and thus cannot be given the same reply as those responses. If you want to reply to what I said, then feel free to do so.....If not, then do not bother responding.

If you support a form of Conservatism that has not been practiced in this country in 117 years, then indeed, you ARE way outside the norm of mainstream Conservative thought. My analysis was therefore 100% correct. Trump has nothing to do with the calculation. It is all about you. Additionally, you will not find many Conservatives that voted for Obama as you did. The further that I dig, the more that my analysis is confirmed. Why do you have a problem with that analysis? If the shoe fits...wear it. You advocate an entirely brand new governmental structure for chrissakes!....yeesh.

 

That's fascinating, but what does have to do in the year 2019? Once again the only way to beat Hillary was run a candidate as evil as her, to do the opposite would only mean she won

 

No. I'm looking at Trump, from the standpoint of Genuine Conservative Values and the History and Origin of those values which I've just summarized above using extant Historical evidence and context. Nothing I write on this forum (when not intentionally with tongue-in-cheek) will ever be without Historical Accuracy, unsearchable for Historical Content or absent Historical Validity. Others are free to post that kind of stuff, but when/if I make an Historical Claim, you can rest assured I've already done my homework and I know very well what I'm posting about.

Genuine Conservative Values have not been practiced in this country for at LEAST 117 years. At the very least. You are probably going to have to back further than that to hit pay dirt on genuine (Traditional and Historical) Conservative content in the political, cultural or social realms in this country.

I expect and accept (100%) flaming Liberals to be clueless about the Historicity of Conservative values in this country. What I cannot tolerate are wannabe blowhards who talk about "Conservative Values" and give lip service to "Conservative Values" when all they do is spew up rank Nationalism and Racism cloaked in a warm blanket of delusional mythology - never once being capable of clearly articulating what it means to be a Real Conservative. I am PROUD to be a Conservative because I understand the History behind the Concept. It ain't perfect. But, it is a far cry away from the toxic and corrosive Liberal Mandate that leads eventually to Tyranny in the form of Rank Socialism, and a far cry better than the Fake Nationalism pretending to be Conservative Values.

At the core of Conservatism is a true, genuine caring about the sustainability of our Republic, its Independence, Individual Freedoms, Individual Rights and Individual Responsibilities (Duty) to ensure its longevity. Anything less than that is bull, corrosive and ultimately destructive to said Republic. Donald Trump, behaves like someone completely in opposition to this.

 

So much so, that he's willing to knowingly take and elicit help from Russia, in order to win an election. And, he loves his country so much, that he's willing to elicit a foreign government to investigate a political adversary here at home just before an election. So much so, that he's willing to exact tariff wars costing US Citizens an increase in consumer prices and thus exacting a Reverse Tax on those same people. Rather than truly "making America great" by developing more Trading Partners through improving US manufacturing such that the rest of the world desires to have their good made here, he'd rather Back Door Tax the American People, all because he loves America so much while he extols the real virtues of being a real Conservative.

And, I've got about 20 acres of land south of Tijuana, Mexico, to sell you to. Cheap, dirt cheap.

 

So you wanted Hillary to win, I comprehend that now.

 

I don’t know about real conservative or not, but trade wars are about jobs and more favorable terms that protect US citizens.
Illegal immigration is also out of control and someone had to take it on.

One nice thing about Trump is that he is immune from social justice warriors.

 

It is that question that explains precisely what this has to do with 2019 and beyond.

My gawd. What's wrong with this country.

No. No. No. A thousand times No!

That was not the only way to beat her. You could have easily beat her on ideas! Conservative ideas that hearken to a time of Conservative Values that speak to the truth about what it means to be a member of this country. About how the Individual needs to remain free to participate in the enhancement and progress of the Republic. About how the Individual has the Duty and Responsibility to do their part in rebuilding American Pride for the purpose of unifying our Republic. About how each Individual has a role to play in bringing forth the Innovation in Technology that will renew the country's role as a strong economic player world without the need for damaging and regressive tariffs, but through stronger manufacturing foundations, competitive prices and innovative technology patents.

About the strategic importance that the United States remains strong Militarily, but unwilling to allow itself to be the world's police or the proxy for those who would use and spoil out blood and treasure to fight wars they don't have the courage or the guts to fight themselves. About how the United States Constitution remains the de facto poster child for a truly Free and Independent Nation and how its People, remain Free and Independent Members of that Nation. About the how the Constitution is the bedrock of our Republic and that no attempt to thwart its principles or truncate its declarations will be tolerate under any circumstances, whatsoever. About how valiant Men and Women of the United States of America fought, who shed their blood and died to protect the Values contained within the United States Constitution, shall never be forgotten and will never be disgraced by attempts to remove any portion therefore from ANY Citizen of this Republic.

About how our country, while no doubt a safe haven for those seeking to flee political persecution in their own country (and should remain as such for those select few), should never be used as a doormat for those who would cheat the system, cut the line and invalidate the work and waiting of others who followed the legal process to one day become valued, trusted and productive members of our country. About how it is vitally important for the future survival of our Republic, that we require those seeking to call the United States of America their new home, that when they come onto our shores, that they do so with respect, humility and a sense of pride to now be an Citizen of our great country.

About how all Citizens of this country have a moral duty and moral obligation to do their part in coming together to Keep America Great and to keep the Republic thriving for all its Citizens.

There are a million different ways that Conservatives could have put forth a candidate who differentiated himself or herself from one Hillary Clinton and Socialism as usual.

 

You understand that if the democrats do gain control a few votes is all that is needed to destroy your court stacking, right?

It’s refreshing to have someone finally admit ramming through as many partisan ideologues as possible was the end goal though.

Thankfully, judges can be removed.

 

Yet, he's nothing to prevent illegal immigration and tariffs have done nothing long-term to increase jobs beyond that increase which was already well underway two full years before he came into office as a direct result of stimulus hitting the fan and bank re-involvement in the US economy. This economy expanded despite Donald Trump, given the enormous build-up of off-shore capital that was already on its way back to the United States, if you go study U.S. Net Long Term Tic Flows prior to the 2016 election. Trump, did absolutely zero to foster the economic boom you've been witnessing since 2012-2014.

I'm in the international currency markets every single day. I know what moves our economy and it was not Trump's policies that did it.

 

How is he overturning the separation of power. The president nominates judges and the Senate votes up or down.

 

Have you not been paying attention lately? Judges are being used all the time to block everything Trump tries to do, hell he can even get a executive order through changing something that was put in place by executive order. And nothing can be changed until it appears befor the court.

 

Your response was indicative of someone who did not understand the underlying premise of what you were responding to. However, sorry to say, in this regard your response it not uncommon, not unique and very much in-line with "Republicans" now living in denial and I don't mean on the banks of a river flowing through Egypt. Clearly, you have not read the OP, nor have you read the source and origins of Conservatism in the United States as I have written it herein.

There is no "comeback" statement anyone having a shred of understanding about our History could make with respect to what I have written. What I have written is extant History. It actually happened. So, arguing against real World History, might be a ploy that works out on the Trump Campaign Trail, but it does not work here with me.

If you think Conservatism is about "Branding" then it is safe to say that this is indeed part of the real problem here. Trump, is all about "Branding" and "Commercializing" and "Selling" and "Marketing" and "Moonshot Hype." He's not about Ethics, Character, Integrity, Morals, Principles, Priorities or Leading in Conservative ways. He's been all about his own Identity. We have a name for that when people flock to Identity Makers. We call that Identity Politics and it is the woefully disgusting stepchild of Dictator, sooner or later.

Now, in Virginia, they are about to undergo a California/New York transformation in the 2nd Amendment at the hands of none other than one Donald J. Trump. That sucks. That really does suck. Virginians, are about to lose Constitutional Protections all because of Donald Trump. On his watch and by his hand. How do you feel about that Historical Fact?

I'm talking History here. I'm trying (desperately) to get through to you here on the merits of what's extant History. Yet, you "Modern Republicans" - you Ultra Right Wing types keep tossing Donald Trump's Identity in my face as if you are Tone Deaf in both ears and Blind in both eyes. I don't get it. I don't understand you guys. You are destroying Conservatism and you don't seem to give a damn. What the hell is wrong with you guys? Can't you just recognize you made a huge error, dump this @!#%#@ on his ear and go develop a genuine Conservative Candidate?

What the hell is wrong with doing that? Why not just do the right thing? He's clearly not the right Man for the job! Why can't you see that and go get another true Conservative Man or Woman?

In the meantime, as a Black Man, I'm sitting over here stuck as hell. I can't support Putin Jr. dressed up to look like Donald J. Trump and I damn sure cannot stomach a Baby Killing Liberal sitting in the White House. So, where the hell does someone like me go, huh? What the hell does someone like me do? What does a Real Conservative do under these extreme conditions?

@%$#@%$! People like me, real Conservatives are screwed. Simply, screwed.

 

You had only two choices for president. Liberal and the unknown Trump. Can honestly say I was not excited to vote for him but I sure the hell did not hilda beast. I can now say I am excited as a fat kid in a candy store waiting for the next election to for Trump.

 

Trump is a narcissistic republican Christian man with a very fragile ego, that was born with everything, but never feels he has enough, has a shallow soul and feels empty inside , probably daddy issues

 

At at what cost. Every time the Supreme Court makes a bad decision, and they will, the country is going to reminded how McConnell cheated the system, forever tarnishing any ruling Gorsuch will make. Same with crybaby Kavanaugh. He will forever be known as the Justice who spent his early years drunk and acting inappropriate towards young women. Began his career sniffing around to find where Bill Clinton’s penis had been. For this he was rewarded with a judgeship. When the truth came out in his confirmation hearing, he cried like a baby.

 

And the president cannot make the back boneless Republicans pass a bill for him to sign. The blame there falls on the wussy senators and representatives.

 

Outstanding analysis. I, too, am a conservative and a card-carrying Republican. The damage Trump voters did to the GOP is enormous.

So huge, in fact, there is a school of thought they did it on purpose. Anarchists, evangelicals, and bigots came together to destroy the Republican Party. That would explain a lot.

One poster claimed they won, meaning the Supreme Court. How stupid is that? Any one of the other 16 (?) candidates would have accomplished the same objective.

 

The trouble is that the so-called Real Conservatives haven't conserved a damn thing.

They are utter failures and Conservatism being "blown up" is no big deal. It was a nullity.

 

What you fail to understand is what you think is a bad decision, I will think it is a good decision.