What is a PROPER wage? Based on your output being worth 100$ per hour.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Guyzilla, Feb 26, 2019.

  1. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree. You are right, there are far too many factors involved for such a simple question as in the OP.

    My point was to point out just one of those factors. It is easy for an employee to say "Geez, they get $100 for every hour I work and they only give me X". It's a simplistic perspective.
     
  2. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that CAN be an overly simplistic perspective. But, it might be totally appropriate, too.

    And, the issues around minimum wage don't really depend on that perspective.
     
  3. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So its exceedingly complex with many variables and factors, but it can be an appropriate argument? I disagree.

    The biggest issues that I have with the perspectives of the OP are:

    1. It fails to recognize the risk involved by the employer and appropriate compensation for that risk
    2. It fails to consider all costs outside of direct labor which impacts margins
    3. Employees often want to share in the profits when times are good, but feel they have no obligation to invest in the company (or work for free) when times are bad.


    Too many employees approach the conversation of "fair" wages from a very one sided perspective.
     
  4. Turin

    Turin Well-Known Member

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    Not just fast food.

    Its estimated that as many as 50% of EVERY SINGLE JOB IN AMERICA, can be automated in the next 20 years. I work in the field, dealing with AI and technology, I think they are right, although I think it will be a bit less than 40%. maybe 30-35%

    Thats a really bad equation. Population keeps going up, number of good jobs keeps going down. Something has to give.
     
  5. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Capitalism doesn't promise anyone any return for risk. A new business may need to struggle for years before turing a profit. Look at Amazon's history.

    I pointed out #2 - yes, there are costs of an eployee beyond that employee's compensation package.

    Your #3, profit sharing, is just one possible component of a compensation package. A busiess may be able to sell an employee on taking lower healthcare or wages if profit sharing is included. That's similar to the kind of bargaining we did with teachers. Politicians offered teachers good retirement and other long term benefits, which is great for politicians who won't even be around when the costs come due! And, when they DO come due, politicians claim teachers are getting too big of a benefit - using that as justification for taking back their promises after teachers have worked for years, expecting to be treated honestly!

    Anyway, there is a market for labor.

    And, since the government has a role in subsidizing that labor market through social safety net features, it's more than fair that government has limits on what is offered with those limits being tied to cost of living.
     
  6. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    Whose revenue are you talking about?
     
  7. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The company.

    Companies are not always making revenue, but labor cost doesn't disappear.
     
  8. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Rent doesn't disappear, either. Nor does the cost of raw materials or stock that must be carried or heat/utilities.

    I'm not sure what direction you're headed in here by singling out labor.
     
  9. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    It's only bad if you don't do anything about it.

    And yes, something does have to give. People need to plan how they'll adapt to that change.
     
  10. Turin

    Turin Well-Known Member

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    But what CAN one do about it. We will never submit to population control, and automation will continue to eat away at jobs. I see no solution here that will be acceptable by the majority.
     
  11. Longshot

    Longshot Well-Known Member

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    Firms will pay labor what they need to in order to attract the employees they need.
     
  12. AKS

    AKS Banned

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    One thing has absolutely nothing to do with the other. A business could not run without electricity. Is the utility company due a percentage of a companies profits?
     
  13. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Well there’s one very simple and obvious place to start. It’s in the news a lot. Maybe you can figure it out...
     
  14. AKS

    AKS Banned

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    We need to get back to that here. Enough with the never-ending barriers to entry. They are only a tool for industry to artificially raise prices under the guise of public safety.
     
  15. AKS

    AKS Banned

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    What a ridiculous post. Who the hell are you to say how much an owner should make?
     
    Longshot likes this.
  16. AKS

    AKS Banned

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    We've been automating work for more than a century and the number of jobs has yet to go down.
     
  17. Turin

    Turin Well-Known Member

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    No, but the jobs that we are loosing are the middle class paying jobs. Almost all new job creation now is in low income service markets.

    Its not just the number of new jobs we have to look at , but the quality of those jobs. Which tends to be very low.
     
  18. AKS

    AKS Banned

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    Really? Do you have a link or is this your gut talking?
     
  19. Turin

    Turin Well-Known Member

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  20. Belch

    Belch Well-Known Member

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    Fire somebody and it certainly does.
     
  21. jcarlilesiu

    jcarlilesiu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And then spend twice as much re-hiring and re-training.
     

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