Hong Kong riots

Discussion in 'Asia' started by NMNeil, Nov 13, 2019.

  1. gorfias

    gorfias Well-Known Member

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    My buddy loves to go through a litany of places screwed up by the French (ie Haiti and Vietnam) but supposedly, former British in, for instance, Africa, colonies are economically better off than non British colony African states.
     
  2. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    rioter start making napalm, yes that kind Napalm used in Vietnam war and ban by international organization. They also start using arrow and javelin now

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/18/asia/hong-kong-poly-university-protest-police-intl-hnk/index.html
     
  3. HumbledPi

    HumbledPi Well-Known Member

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    I admit that I'm only familiar with the basic facts regarding Hong Kong's history. I'm aware that there has been human rights violations committed by China in Hong Kong. The first thing I look at is the money angle. Hong Kong has their own currency which is pegged to the U.S. dollar. The U.S. dollar is no longer backed by gold (or silver) as it once was, it's just flat money. Most modern paper currencies, including the U.S. dollar, are fiat money, it's not linked to any physical reserves. It's linked to debt. I don't want to stray too far from my point which is that Hong Kong is a financial hub and business center, shopping paradise, and tourist destination, etc. China realizes there's great wealth and influence in Hong Kong.

    Here's my take on Hong Kong. They want to remain a liberal democracy while China wants control as a communist country where democracy doesn't exist. Isn't this struggle only more of the same we're seeing globally? Countries like Ukraine, Republic of Belarus, Armenia, Ethiopia, Angola, and Ecuador show that democracy has enduring appeal as a means of holding leaders accountable and creating the conditions for a better life.

    Unfortunately democracy has been rolled back globally in recent years, moving towards the appeal of populism, and this is dangerous for democracy. Democracy in the U.S. has been severely eroded in the past few years, we have a populist president. Even worse, the U.S. is not doing what this country is supposed to be doing and has been doing for decades, promote and support democracies globally. The U.S. is just not doing this.

    There's been no sign of support from Trump for pro-democracy protesters in Hong Kong. He has said nothing that's critical of China of their treatment of protesters. There's been no encouragement from Trump towards Ukraine to encourage their fledgling democracy. Quite the opposite, he has encouraged corruption in a country that's been fighting against it since they left the Soviet Union in 1991.

    Senators Jim Risch and Marco Rubio, want to pass the “Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act” by unanimous voice vote. This legislation that would place Hong Kong’s special treatment by the United States under extra scrutiny, a sign of support for pro-democracy protesters in the Chinese-ruled city. The legislation would require the secretary of state to certify at least once a year that Hong Kong still retains enough autonomy to warrant the special U.S. trading consideration that bolsters its status as a world financial center. It also would provide sanctions against officials responsible for human rights violations in Hong Kong.

    Trump hasn't made any comments about this bill. Trump doesn't want to aggravate President Xi and China is getting bigger and stronger while the US is getting weaker. The U.S. is not in a position to tell China what to do. If it does pass the Senate, the measure would not be sent immediately to the White House for Trump to sign into law or veto. Lawmakers would first have to iron out differences between the Senate’s legislation and a bill that passed the House of Representatives last month. So we can pretty much see where that bill is going.
     
  4. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    let see Iraq kill about 330 protester since oct, spain catalonia/chile/argentina/Lebanon, list goes on, all had more protester death compare to HK 5 month. also HK human freedom index is #3. in 1967 brit kill about 60 HKonger during the protest, with thousands injury. The reason world hasn't response to HK now is because it become increasingly violent. UK already condem it. if the protest was more peaceful, they should get more support from other countries. violence only create more violence, and now the protester are losing support from HK citizens due to disruption to economy/traffic and everyday lives. in 156 years of brit control of HK, they never give them free election, when 300k HK citizen apply for UK citizenship after handover, UK reject it. even Portugal give Macao citizen Portuguese citizenship

    https://www.cato.org/human-freedom-index-new
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
  5. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you can, then tell us. The only alternative that I see, would be to post guards every half mile to shoot at whoever tries to come in, terrorist or otherwise..
     
  6. HumbledPi

    HumbledPi Well-Known Member

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    This is 2019, not 1920 and technology would be a very effective adjunct to any physical border wall that already exists. Cameras, fixed towers and aerial and underground sensors, would help combat cartels that are already using highly sophisticated technology to cross the border. The old expression 'fight fire with fire' applies here since the drug cartels already use sophisticated technology for transporting the “goods,” but also for other purposes, including communication, surveillance, and defense operations.

    Communication is key to any successful business, and the cartels know it. The Zeta drug cartel created its encrypted cellular network that uses antennas and repeaters installed all over Mexico. The equipment is hidden in remote locations and is connected to solar power, while radio-receiving cell phones and Nextel devices are used for talking. Who configured it all for the drug lords? Kidnapped engineers, of course.

    If the drug cartels are capable of such technology using kidnapped engineers to smuggle drugs into the U.S., then it stands to reason that the U.S. could use paid engineers to develop the technology to detect theirs and disarm them. Placing the appropriate technology in the right places and training and building the skill set of personnel in key agencies would make America safer from drug smugglers and illegals that can tunnel under any border wall. And the cartels and human traffickers have a lot of highly sophisticated tunnels with air circulation, tracks for carts to ride on and solar lighting.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
  7. Shonyman32

    Shonyman32 Well-Known Member

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    https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/...-kong-bill-to-trump-as-china-escalates-threat

    https://amp.scmp.com/news/china/dip...es-hong-kong-rights-bill-sends-measure-donald

    Trump is expected to sign the bill Thursday night says. Trump made an agreement back in early October to keep his mouth shut about hong kong to work on trade and trade talks have slowed so hopefully he hits china where it hurts!
     
  8. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    I think it is for the entire free world to declare.
     
  9. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Personally, I detest tyrants raping the human soul of its liberty—personally, I wish the Hong Hong idealists much success—and personally, I pray that Xi Jinping and the CPC are tortured in hell for eternity plus one day.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
  10. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That’s BS:

    America can condemn the Xi Jinping and CPC for not honoring the Hong Kong treaty. America can offer citizenship to any one from Hong Kong who wishes to immigrate. America can place an embargo on Chinese.

    I’m sure there is much more America can do without going to war, including issuing a resolution condemning China’s policy of violating the principles of justice and liberty.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
  11. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The patience of a dictatorship is moral; the demand for liberty is sin. Excuse me, while I puke.
     
  12. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
  13. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    the election is different than support of violence, those local election are things like school levy, garbage collection etc. most HK want democracy, but they don't support violence like the student did, that's why millions peaceful protester become few thousands rioter later. if students was peaceful they will get more support. There was a survey on that sometime ago on how HK feel about the violence, most against it. remember there is big difference between support of democracy vs support of using violent mean to achieve the cause. most HK prefer the former method.
     
  14. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yeah, you keep telling yourself that.
     
  15. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Now just wait—some CPC propagandist and Xi Jinping water-boy will start blathering about how Hong Kong belongs to China because geography is everything and principles and honor are for fools and malcontents.)
     
  16. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    its the fact or are you saying HK want more violent protest and descent HK into chaos. they already in recession. the vote show they support democracy but doesn't mean support of violent and chaos. I support them, but I don't support ppl burning someone alive because he had different opinion.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
  17. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    its a fact, no doubt about that, every nation recognize HK as special admin region of china. its not about geography or anything, CCP will go to war if HK become independent, and no one want that. its same reason US didn't recognize Taiwan as independent country.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
  18. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don’t. And thank God you weren’t in charge of our revolution
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
  19. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    so you think spain catalonia should be independent too, what if California or texas start want independent or more autonomy too. then there is Scotland and north Ireland. and many other place. don't think any federal government just gonna let those place run away easily.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
  20. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Now, that would depend on the cause and effect of it.

    For example the South didn’t have the right to secede in order to continue slavery, but the North would have had every moral right to secede if the Federal government demanded they be slave states.


    Just as the Palestinians have every right to create a nation based on liberty, self government, and Individual Rights, but have no right or moral justification for creating a theocracy based on Islam.


    I’m sure the British were bitterly psd at losing the colonies, but they lost them because they had no right to keep them in servitude to England.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
  21. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why is more expected of China regarding Hong Kong
    Than Spain, or the U.K. and even :flagus: ?


    Moi
    :oldman:
    Support CalExit


    No-Canada-2.gif
     
  22. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They gave their word when they signed the Hong Kong Treaty—Morality demands all human souls keep their word.
     
  23. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    ill agree with cause and effect, but say for example spain catalonia, do they have right to be independent? what about Scotland or north Ireland if they decide to do so. what happen if California become too liberal and want more autonomy or independent. beside I think most HK is asking for free election NOT independent, there is realistic goal and non-realistic goal.
     
  24. Starjet

    Starjet Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If they are fighting for freedom to live and prosper by reason, and they have a rational plan for victory—Yes. If either condition is missing, no.

    The exception would be a tyranny so pervasive and atrocious, that life under its rule wouldn’t be living, it would be a living death—The story of Hans and Sophie Scholl, and their death at the hands of the nazis comes to mind.



    And that is the fight of the Hong Kong idealists.

    You tell me: Should have Hans and Sophie Scholl never published The White Rose? Should they have willingly surrendered their lives to the Nazis? Or should the have fought to the death for the ideals they believed in—liberty, self-government, and freedom of thought?

    And I ask you? What moral person would demand the Hong Kong idealists surrender their ideals to the threats of tyranny?

    I stand with the Hong Kong idealists.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
  25. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What of "they gave their word" to
    The Republics of California & Texas
    per the 10th Amendment?

    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

    Education is one of those powers!

    Several times someone thought I was :crazy: for supporting CalExit.
    I say, California did a better job of education before the
    Federal's CORE Curriculum and testing.
    And would get total agreement. No further discussion.

    The morality you would enforce on China
    should be universal enough to apply to :flagus: Si?
     
    ArchStanton likes this.

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