Germany is Europe's Economic Throttle

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by LafayetteBis, Nov 29, 2019.

  1. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So obviously you think that a government-provided healthcare system does not save lives and expand one's lifespan?

    Or that in this Change of Ages an advanced degree (subsidized by the central government) does not allow one to enter into a higher level of payscale?

    Both of the above have been proven positive time-and-time again by any developed country that employs them. It is a matter of natural-choice that an intelligent people make, or do not make.

    And it is a courageous choice to make as well - instead of wasting government funding in some hell-hole elsewhere on this planet!
    From here:
    Financial cost of the Iraq War - Wikipedia - quote:
    Two and a half trillion dollars gone-up in smoke-'n-death and for what? Kids in body-bags that should have gone on to a higher-level of education (by means of that above mentioned expenditure!) rather than returned for burial by their mothers ... ?
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
  2. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's obviously a separate argument, and I don't see how it has any parallels to what I was trying to argue.

    With more people getting more advanced degrees, the qualifications to get into those higher levels of payscale have been going up.

    You're not grasping the concept in my argument, are you?

    The high paying jobs in these other countries don't exist. That's one of the major reasons those people do not feel it worthwhile to incur the expense of getting an education. The cost to expected benefit ratio doesn't work out so well.

     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019
  3. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Therefore, what you argue above is that there is no net-benefit to National Healthcare and a Tertiary-level education, both of which are financed by a National Budget-Spending in Europe.

    Lifespans are longer in Europe (than the US) a fact mostly attributable to National Healthcare Services - and in Europe one has access to government-funded tertiary-level educational-services.

    Both of which above are the "fundamental national investments" of any advanced national economy.


    Enough of your nonsense ...

    PS: And also another colossal cost--factor is Uncle Sam's Defense Budget to which you prefer not to respond - the fact that the DoD swallows whole 57% of the 2019 National Discretionary Budget (see here) is "just fine" - leaving no room whatsoever for the "truly needed" services of any advanced-nation. (Donald Dork increased Defense-budgets radically so that his "friends" would contribute to his reelection funding.)
     
  4. william kurps

    william kurps Banned

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    Its been debunked numerous times, countries give the World health organization their own data, it's not independently verified.
     
  5. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    As purely an FYI I was reading some data coming out of S&P over the weekend to the effect that Germany (and indeed some other countries in the Eurozone) is/are having an interesting situation whereby company’s margins are being squeezed by increased wages. The gist of it is wages are rising at their highest pace since 2009, and they expect them to moderate next year, but as long as labor markets remain tight, firms will remain under pressure to pay higher wages to retain and attract employees. Meanwhile, the expectation is that eurozone inflation is to remain at 1.2% next year because energy prices are set to remain relatively stable. Companies sensing weaker demand, will likely shy away from steep price increases so they can retain market share, the result being shrinking margins, which is happening quickly in Germany.

    Stronger gains in consumption are unlikely, though, because of low to negative interest rates, people are forced to save more today to achieve a similar standard of living when they retire. This is especially a problem for households that do not own their homes (such as in Germany). Lower homeownership is associated with higher savings.

    Monetary policy is likely to be an interesting balance going forward.
     
  6. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    They have to find a different form of savings, which is as conservative as a savings account.
    The traditional savings account is dead, or the traditional CD. If they look around the market, they will find bonds and CDs which produce quiet nicely. But it is difficult to get people to move past their traditions.
    The industry in Germany sat on their fat margins and they were rather good and built up a huge administrative overhang.
    Now the restructuring starts, again.
     
  7. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I notice you seem to be trying to switch the argument to healthcare, without addressing my argument.
     
  8. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's an interesting perspective (and I don't tell that to people here often). I will have to spend some time thinking about and digesting this. Certainly I think you may have had several insights in there.
     
  9. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Indeed, but let's not forget why the EU "Central Bank" is in Frankfurt. And, given the massive debt that is owed the CB by EU countries, I am sure Madame will be closely watching what Germany does bank-wise. (Beside the fact that she and Angela get along just fine.)

    Once Germany gets a functional government together, that is. The country is heading for yet another public vote for its Legislature, is it not? Because it cannot seem to get a solid majority together?

    A Central Advantage of Europe is that its political system (so far) is not messed about as it is in the US*. There is no One Executive Power as there is in the US presidency.

    Imagine, the US - taking action to impeach a sitting PotUS? What next ... ?

    PS: Whilst in China they cannot contain their joy at the very thought that Donald Dork's days are numbered - and, even if not, his chances of getting reelected have been dramatically reduced. (And with that thought, I am going to celebrate by having a German beer!)

    *With Britain as an exception, due to their Insular Mentality gone very wrong. England still thinks it has a "hold" on Europe. It's since a long time passed that the country needed a bit of wakey-wakey to modern political/economic realities - and especially its aggregation into the EU (which has always been at a distance since the very beginning). The right appellation is obvious there - "Insular Mentality". (Britannia waives the rules!)
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
  10. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    INEQUALITY GINI COEFFICIENT

    Revision: (Donald Dork has increased Defense-budgets radically and reduced even lower (already far too low) upper-income taxation - so that his "friends" would contribute to his reelection funding. (Which they have happily done because the money-saved goes right back into his Reelection Funding kitty.)

    Americans should think twice come next November about whether they want this scoundrel to keep/increase Income Disparity in America - which is already the worst of any developed nation.

    Don't care to believe that accusation? Then, see the OECD-chart here ... !

    PS: What is meant by the inequality of Income/Wealth? Try this explanatory infographic on for size (with the UK as an example): Inequality Gini Coefficient
    PPS: And note especially Item 7 on the list.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
  11. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    At the present I would say Germany has a functional Government, despite the problems within the SPD.
    One thing I learned about Merkel, never, ever count her out. She has never been a loud mouth, she is at her very best, when it comes to twisting arms and wringing necks, behind close doors.
    Even that she is at the end of her Chancellor ship, with that ability, I would not count her out till she retires.
    She is fighting for her legacy.
    Just take a look at the new President of the EU commission, that is one of Merkel's girls.

    Look at the new leader ship of the SPD, they were voted in to end the coalition with the CDU. They are already down tuning, because most of the points of the coalition contract have been accomplished or are in the work.
    It is very hard to find fault if the country rakes in an other surplus, 40 billion and the predicted recession did not happen and the outlook for 2020 is not to bad.
     
  12. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    NEUTER THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE!

    She is a scientist by training. Which German politicians could never understand. They do now, however. Which means what? That is instead of knee-jerk reactions, she THINKS.

    Surprise, surprise, Germany! A woman who thinks! And she's a politician! (Will wonders never cease?)


    Precisely! And IT'S ABOUT TIME!

    And what did we do in America, where a female presidency was (3 years ago) way "past its time". Nada!

    We let a woman who won a significant plurality of the popular-vote LOOSE THE VOTE IN THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE - which is nothing more than an election-device that is antiquated and should be put to its well-deserved neutering.

    Yes and let's be grateful where gratefulness is pertinent. Which is the fact that a considerable amount of that German Monetary Surplus goes to an office in Frankfurt (of the ECB) now being managed by - ye Gods! - yet another woman!

    What ever has become of this tidy European-male* political-world of ours? Oh, WOW!

    Dear me, dear me, dear me ... ! :confusion:

    *And my hat's off to Junker for having promoted the "sex-change" at the top. It was about time, and unlike Uncle Sam's Land, Europe did it without manipulative-voting procedures like the Electoral College and Gerrymandering.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2019
  13. Caligula

    Caligula Well-Known Member

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    Germany has a functioning government, has a solid majority and is not heading for a public vote. Where does this assumption come from?
    The junior partner of the current coalition, the SPD, has been dealing with internal debates regarding its political course, but that's what every party goes through. The SPD has been losing votes for roughly a decade now, is rather slow at getting their act together and internal differences are often publicly debated - which is never a good idea. Premature elections due to lack of a functioning government are very rare in Germany.
     
  14. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Germany's history, I suggest, has bearing. Nobody, but nobody, in Germany wants to repeat what happened after WW1. That is, the events and mentality that brought Hitler to power. And, yes, that cannot happen again - but why?

    Because Germany is part of something larger, and that "something" is a Economic Harness that ties all of the EU into a "common economic fate".

    At present that fate is recuperating from an event that no-one ever expected - the last US recession* (2007/2013). (See here.) The US unemployment rate is down to around four percent, but Total Employment is nowhere near where it was before 2008*. It is 2.3% less.

    The Employment-to-population Ratio is a fine indicator of what is happening to nationwide-employment historically, and it is more poignant than just the unemployment rate (which actually determines its course).

    If I mention the above it is to contrast The Two Principal Western Economies (the US and EU) that are the major Consumer Economies. Yes, China is coming along very fast - but it is utterly dependent upon selling-stuff to both the US and the EU.

    *Which I measure to mean in regard to the ability of the country to create-net-new-jobs. See infographic here showing E-to-p Ratio period from Oct. 2007 through to Oct. 2013 when the US economy was destroying and then not creating any net "new-jobs". And, why? Because a Replicant HofR - as of taking control of the HofR in 2009 - refused Obama the money to kick-start the economy! (See HofR majority-party historical graphic from the Economist here.)
     
  15. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    West Germany and France decided, working to gather is far better than war. War is a stupid, extremely expensive affaire and leaves just destruction. Hence the coal and steel pact. That was the start of the EU. The 2 agonist started it. Shortly other central European countries joined the pact and they than founded the mother of the EU. Those 6 countries have been the battle field of Europe for hundreds of years.
    It is no accident that those were the founders. It is not just about economics, it is about history, ending the century old cycle of war.
    Its about historical DNA
    Economics are important and today a driving factor, but one can not neglect the history which binds central Europe to gather.
    Todays Germany is the off spring of West Germany and its constitution. That constitution has the EU written into it.
    I actually do not care if a woman or a man runs the show, I care about the job they do. I like women, because they their job with less show, men have to show that they have the balls. But than that macho can be very good, saying things that nobody would, trying to push the goal post with statements, as long as they are intelligent.
    Take Macron, I like him, I think he is good for Europe, bolt ideas, it needs more of those.
    The EU has to find a identity.

    No, Germanies surpluses do not go to the ECB, they go into the debt and investment into the country and into Europe.

    Interesting times.
     
  16. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, "interesting times" because the further-on one goes, and with sufficient historical prospective inculcated in the classroom, the students who become voters understand better that social- and economic-harmony are far more important throughout and not just individually by state. The mentalities that started the first world-war were hand-me-downs from the 19th century, which was still largely un-democratic in nature. The second world-war was pure circumstance - that is, Hitler's bent for a "super-Germany".

    After WW1 Britain and England wanted to punish Germany and exacted compensation, which greatly affected the lifestyle of most Germans. So, when Hitler came along and said "enough is enough", they cheered him along.He stopped the payments, and neither France nor England said a word.

    I'm not sure that at first the Germans understood the Jewish manslaughter that Hitler tried to keep a secret from them. (Of course, in the large cities trucking Jews away was clearly evident to the public. But neither did they ask any questions.)

    It was postwar that the massive numbers of deaths was finally made known to them. And, of course, it was nothing about which to be proud.

    But neither was America's poor treatment by the whites of Indians and Blacks ...
     

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