To impeach or not to impeach, that is the question

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Sandy Shanks, Oct 24, 2019.

  1. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    I know that. I would love to discuss the issue with him.

    I got an idea. Why don't you provide his arguments and we will discuss the matter? I would love to have somebody, anybody, defend Trump.
     
  2. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Did you modify this post because you knew it was reported?
    Why yes, yes you did.
    Too late, though.
     
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  3. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    I've tried to link to the PDF of his testimony but I'm unable to. At any rate it is easily locatable online.

    It is 53 pages long. I'm reluctant to summarize it as Turley's legal knowledge far, far exceeds mine (and most other peoples).
     
  4. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Bazinga! Another report!
    of the un-modified post, of course.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  5. Jestsayin

    Jestsayin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Understand it is just a cry for attention. Every time this thread gets stale which was a very long time ago, the OP resurrects it just to get to the top of the list.
    Your democrat party is now up to their fetlocks in the impeachment process. Time to create a new thread or join the 25 or so already running.
     
  6. stone6

    stone6 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Turley didn't exactly take the Republican position. He argued basically two points: 1) the evidence so far did call for further investigation , but did not yet amount to an impeachable offense and 2) Congress should wait for important pending court cases. There was certainly no exoneration of the President. He basically took the "powerful Judicial branch" position, which is contrary to other opinion and, probably original intent, insomuch as the Courts had little of the power they hold today, at the time of the ratification of the Constitution. Today's primary Supreme Court power comes from Marbury v.Madison (1803), which established the principle of judicial review. The Court does, on occasion, decide disputes between the branches, but that is hardly their principal purpose. Turley basically over-rates the judicial process ON THIS POINT.
    Impeachment is a political process with a relatively low bar in the House, coupled to a relatively high bar in the Senate. It was that 2/3rds majority in the Senate (the same Senate vote necessary to overcome a Presidential veto), that was the "conservative bias" also shown, at the time, elsewhere in the Constitution, such as in the original election of the Senate by State Legislatures and the Electoral College itself. Both the leftward drift and power of the House has grown with our wealth and influence, coupled to the principle of universal suffrage. But, be that as it may, Trump challenges a fundamental power of Congress, upon which our foundation as a democratic republic rests, the power of the purse.
     
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  7. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    I am as open minded as you say you want me to be, but I'm probably as lost trying to understand your thinking as you describe. Since you understand me & other liberals so well, please help me (& other liberal readers in this forum) to understand how your thinking differs from ours & why. I sincerely appreciate it.
     
  8. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    I have no idea what you are talking about. Do you?
     
  9. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Sure. Let's start with this. This is false:

    I've expressed it often enough on this forum, but I'll state it again. As a conservative, I can understand why a liberal would vote for a Hillary, Bernie, or a multitude of other Democratic candidates because living in a world where liberals control the government (the permanent part) the media, entertainment, academia, and news, I know your worldview, how you think, and what you think. The post above of yours that I copied is wrong in almost every particular. You don't have a clue as to what motivates people on the right and/or Trump supporters, so it's fairly easy to just accept the news media narrative. You are told what to think and you obey with little question. And why shouldn't you? You never hear a dissent, and if you read one here, you don't accept it because it contradicts what MSNBC, The New York Times, your university, or your favorite politicians tell you.

    So although I've no doubt that you think you are open minded, because that's what you are told liberals are; open minded, your "open mindedness" is along a very narrow range of accepted opinions. I've been on this forum long enough to know that no one's mind is really changed here, but I've no reason to think you are really open because you seem to be wedded to some ideas (in the aforementioned post) that are just plain wrong. I doubt you'll be changing them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  10. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    In response to the bold portion of your post above, wouldn't what you say there be applicable in equal measure to yourself, but from a conservative perspective?

    In spite of your criticism, I do feel I am open minded. Being open minded means I'm willing to listen & consider alternative points of view. It also means I'm willing & even anxious to understand alternative points of view & what they are based on. I would be happy if someone on this forum--a conservative--would explain to me how they arrive at the "conservative" viewpoint & feel comfortable there. I'd be happy to share the same from my own life experience. I am not interested in an argument or a debate for points. I'm interested in a real life, open, sharing, learning experience. Let me know if you (or any other reader) are interested.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
  11. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    USA Today reports, "House Speaker Nancy Pelosi announced Thursday that the House would draw up articles of impeachment against President Donald Trump, setting up a historic clash between the two branches of government that could lead to only the third presidential impeachment in history."

    "Our democracy is what is at stake," said Pelosi, D-Calif., because the alleged misconduct involved interference with the 2020 election. "The president leaves us no choice but to act, because he is trying to corrupt, once again, the election for his own benefit."

    Uh-oh, I can't help but think the Democrats are making a mistake. Failure to remove Trump by way of impeachment can only hurt them. The Senate will exonerate him, and, since their defense strategy worked, that is all the average American voter will remember come November.

    On the other hand, possibly the Republicans will come to regret that they exonerated a President who asked for foreign interference in our elections for his personal convenience and used extortion on a foreign leader as incentive. They have already lost a number of elections in 2018 and 2019 because of Trump.
     
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  12. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    Here we go again. Two Trump fans trying to hide the issues of this thread.
     
  13. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    I hope you didn't mean me. I'm NOT a Trump fan.
     
  14. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    Just how dumb is Trump? He wants to call leading Democrats in the impeachment proceedings as his witnesses. Don't believe me? Read this.

    "If you are going to impeach me, do it now, fast, so we can have a fair trial in the Senate, and so that our Country can get back to business," Trump tweeted Thursday morning as he awaited Pelosi's remarks. "We will have Schiff, the Bidens, Pelosi and many more testify, and will reveal, for the first time, how corrupt our system really is." https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/05/politics/donald-trump-impeachment-strategy/index.html

    Incredible.

    There was no mention of Mulvaney, Pence, Perry, Bolton, and Giuliani -- all key figures in the impeachment probe and close associates to Trump -- as witnesses in the Senate trial. However, there is this from NPR.

    The argument of whether to call witnesses goes to a central debate among Senate Republicans on how long a trial could take and what it could look like. Some Republicans, including Sen. Lindsey Graham, a key Trump ally, have warned that calling witnesses could force an impeachment trial to drag on. https://www.npr.org/2019/12/05/7848...icans-huddle-with-white-house-on-senate-trial

    And Trump and Republicans call the House impeachment inquiry a sham. Do they have to make it so obvious that the verdict is already in?

    Putin got what he wanted. The Trump government is a sham.
     
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  15. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    By attempting to derail the thread, you seem like one. You are doing exactly what the Trump fan wants you to do. If you want to talk philosophically, start your own thread. I started this one with a purpose in mind.
     
  16. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    More cross-post trolling? 4 topics?
    Tsk.
     
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  17. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    No I don't think it applies in "in equal measure" to me, since I already live in your world, as I described in my last post. However I'll say this, the idea that you've realized that "I am not interested in an argument or a debate for points. I'm interested in a real life, open, sharing, learning experience," is encouraging since debate and argument, as fun as they can be at times, have really gotten us no where. Maybe just an open sharing of experiences is the way to go and just let the chips fall where they may.
     
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  18. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    Now how did I know that you were going to bow out?

    I can't get any Trump fan to defend Trump. Why is that? The Republicans are providing an abundance of material. However, unlike television, on PF Trump's critics can answer back, and even Trump's fans know their arguments are weak and vulnerable. Trump's fans are even smart enough not to use Trump's pathetic and false arguments.
     
  19. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    You're not wanting a debate Sandy. You want some strawmen to knock down.
     
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  20. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    He doesn't need it .
    Duh.
     
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  21. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    See what I mean?
     
  22. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Defending Trump from your ridiculous rants devoid of both facts and reason would be like spitting into the wind.
     
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  23. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Yes. We see you believe your cross-posted nonsense.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2019
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  24. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    It like a channel playing nothing but the same reruns, you have seen 7 times before

    upload_2019-12-5_23-11-53.jpeg
     
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  25. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    My apologies. It wasn't my intention. :(
     

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