Musings on the AR15

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by TOG 6, Dec 13, 2019.

  1. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    It is impossible to find a firearm in common use for traditionally lawful purposes that is more useful in the service of the well-regulated militia than the AR15 - how, then, does the 2nd Amendment of the US constitution not protect the right of the people to own and use an AR15?

    Doesn't the well-regulated militia - require - the use firearms approprotare of use in war?
     
  2. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They're about to find out in VA.

    And yes, the point of being armed is to be able to engage in warfare...particularly against a similarly armed opponent.

    To be able to effectively resist a standing army, a militia would need weapons suitable to that task.
     
  3. Jestsayin

    Jestsayin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Statistically, you are more likely to be killed by Hillary Clinton than an AR15
     
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  4. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    I wonder how many bought ARs after hearing her talk about he thoughts on gun control in the run up to 2016. The only greater sales person for the industry was Obama.
     
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  5. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

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    In my humble opinion, 572,000 lives lost in USA 1999-2016 is more then enough.
     
  6. Jestsayin

    Jestsayin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I know a guy who built two really nice ones about that time with his two grandsons, justsayin'
     
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  7. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    Your opinion is wrong.
     
  8. william kurps

    william kurps Banned

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    Low caliber/ high velocity what's not to love
     
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  9. Richard The Last

    Richard The Last Well-Known Member

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    I agree. What are we going to do to stop it?
     
  10. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Your number is wrong, and you post is off-topic trolling.
    Reported.
     
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  11. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    My recommendation would be to have an Ar at home and cc with training.

    If the numbers are gonna be high, make sure they are filled with bad guys.
     
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  12. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    An AR is not defined by the round it consumes any more than a Winchester lever gun is defined by the round it any particular one is chambered in. The .458 SOCUM chambered upper I have would not fit your description.
     
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  13. william kurps

    william kurps Banned

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    Where did I say anything about the the round?

    Once again it's a low caliber/ high velocity

    It tears organs apart into hamburger, no surgeon can repair those wounds
     
  14. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    So, the .458 SOCUM round is ‘low caliber/high velocity’? What standard of measurement are you using?
     
  15. william kurps

    william kurps Banned

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    What now you want to talk about the AK 47?
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
  16. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    I don’t own one thus cannot speak from direct experience and experimentation. While I did have one I acquired And used for a bit in Guatemala in the early 80’s, I wasn’t in a position where I could experiment. I have had a lot of gun chambered in a wide variety of rounds (including wildcat you probably haven’t encountered) that I can credibly discuss from my years of reloading and experimentation, many of their niches in my battery replaced by a single AR lower and three different uppers with different chamberings.
     
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  17. william kurps

    william kurps Banned

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    So in your gun expertise, do you agree a AR15 is low caliber/high velocity

    ?

    Just curious
     
  18. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    Depends on the chambering. A .223 round is suited for small game, not what I depend on against dangerous game regardless of the load specifics. There are a few chamberings, that, depending on the load, I would.
    But, If I could find that preverbal magic round...
     
  19. william kurps

    william kurps Banned

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    That's what a was curious about not really a gun guy (only had a 9 mm glock and 38 revolver)

    The reports I read a little .233 was high velocity in a AR 15 and I never really got how it could do so much damage to internal organs

    Ps..


    Just want to learn something from a poster who has experience
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
  20. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    Again, the terminal performance of the .223 round depended on several factors, the specifics of the load , barrel length, barrel twist, distance of a shot. There are quite a number of good sources available that can help someone get an understanding of the variables involved, including those reported by militaries in the early history of the round’s use when they were predominantly issuing M16’s with 20” barrels, with a 1:12 twist, launching jacketed .55 gr bullets. Lots changed since then.
    BTW, just a safety consideration; many ARs chambered in 5.56 can safely shoot .223 rounds, not the reverse isn’t necessarily true because of slight tolerance differences and differences in chamber pressure.
     
  21. Richard The Last

    Richard The Last Well-Known Member

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    The "AR Platform" is chambered for many different cartridges. Here is a list from Wikipedia:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AR_platform_calibers
    As you can see it would depend on which cartridge a person was shooting as to whether or not it was "low caliber/ high velocity"
    @An Taibhse has much wisdom to impart. Absorb what is in his posts

    AR-15 calibers
    Rimfire calibers
    .17 Mach 2
    .17 HMR[1]
    .17 Winchester Super Magnum[1]
    .22 Long Rifle[2]
    .22 Winchester Magnum Rimfire[1]
    Centerfire calibers imperial measurement
    .17 Mach IV
    .17 Remington Fireball
    .17 Remington[1]
    .17-223[3]
    .20 Practical[4]
    .204 Ruger[1]
    .222 Remington
    .223 Remington - Original AR-15 caliber: .223 cartridges may function in a 5.56×45mm rifle, however 5.56×45mm cartridges can produce excessive pressure in a .223 rifle. On the other hand, a .223 Wylde chamber is used on .223 caliber rifle barrels to allow them to safely fire either .223 Remington or 5.56x45mm NATO ammunition.[5]
    .22 PPC
    .22 Nosler
    .224 Valkyrie
    .224 Kritzeck (Shortened .223 remington neck)[6]
    .223 Winchester Super Short Magnum[5]
    .243 LBC[3]
    .243 Winchester Super Short Magnum[5]
    .25 Winchester Super Short Magnum[5]
    .25-45 Sharps
    .277 Wolverine (6.8×39mm)
    .30 Carbine[1]
    .30 Remington AR[7]
    30 American[8]
    300 OSSM[5]
    300 AAC Blackout (7.62×35mm)[7]
    .300 Whisper[7]
    .350 Legend[9]
    300 HAM'R - Wilson Combat[10]
    358 Yeti - Wildcat[11]
    375 SOCOM
    .40 S&W[12]
    .45 ACP[13]
    .450 Bushmaster[1]
    .458 SOCOM[14]
    .50 Action Express
    .50 Beowulf[15]
    Centerfire calibers metric measurement
    5.45×39mm[1]
    5.56×45mm NATO - Original AR-15A2 caliber: can also safely fire .223 Remington[1]
    FN 5.7×28mm
    6×45mm
    6.5mm Grendel[1]
    6.8×39mm (.277 Wolverine)[16][17]
    6.8mm Remington SPC[7]
    7.62×37mm Musang
    7.62×39mm[7]
    7.62×40mm Wilson Tactical[7]
    7.92x33mm Kurz
    9×19mm Parabellum[2]
    10mm Auto[13]
    9x39mm[18]
    Calibers which will not feed but which are used in rifles where the receiver functions only as a trigger group
    .338 Lapua Magnum
    .408 CheyTac
    .50 BMG

    AR-10 calibers
    .220 Swift
    .22-250 Remington
    6mm-250
    .243 Winchester - same bolt as 7.62×51 (worn-down barrels can be re-bored to take 6.5 Creedmoor or 7.62×51)[5]
    6mm Remington
    6mm Creedmoor
    .257 Roberts
    6.5×47mm Lapua
    6.5mm Creedmoor - same bolt as 7.62×51, and can be formed from 7.62×51 brass
    6.5 WSM
    .260 Remington - same bolt as 7.62×51, and can be formed from 7.62×51 brass
    .270 Winchester Short Magnum
    7mm-08 Remington - same bolt as 7.62×51, and can be formed from 7.62×51 brass
    7.62×51mm NATO - Original AR-10 caliber
    7MM Winchester Short Magnum
    7MM Remington Short action Ultra Magnum
    .308 Winchester - considered interchangeable with 7.62×51mm NATO according to SAAMI.
    .300 Winchester Short Magnum
    .300 Remington Short action Ultra Magnum[19]
    .325 Winchester Short Magnum
    .338 Federal - same bolt as 7.62×51, and can be formed from 7.62×51 brass
    .338 Winchester Short Magnum
    .358 Winchester - same bolt as 7.62×51, and can be formed from 7.62×51 brass
    .358 Winchester Short Magnum
    .375 Raptor - same bolt as 7.62×51, and can be formed from 7.62×51 brass
    .375 Winchester Short Magnum
    .416 Winchester Short Magnum
    .450 Marlin
    .45 RAPTOR
    .458 Winchester Short Magnum
    .458 SOCOM
    475 Bishop Short Magnum
    .500 Auto Max
    .50 Krater
    .510 Winchester Short Magnum

    Other AR pattern rifles
    Some companies have created AR pattern rifles that depart from the standard AR-15 and AR-10 dimensions in order to accommodate other types of ammunition that would not fit into the those standards.
    Examples include:


    .300 Winchester Magnum[20][21][22]
    .30-06 Springfield[23]
    6.5×55mm[24][25][26]
    7.5×55mm Swiss[24][26][27]
    7mm Remington Magnum[28]
    .270 Winchester[29]
    .25-06 Remington[29]
    .338 Lapua Magnum[30]
    .458 Winchester Magnum[31]

    Other AR pattern firearms
    A variety of manufacturers have introduced semiautomatic shotguns whose overall designs are heavily influenced by the AR pattern rifle.

    12 Gauge
    20 Gauge
    .410 bore[32]
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
  22. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    you are referring to a musket?

    of course neither a musket nor an ar would be particularly useful in a nuke war
     
  23. Richard The Last

    Richard The Last Well-Known Member

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    I believe the reference would be to modern arms being the "firearms appropriate for use in war". In the 21st century we would not be fighting 18th century battles so would not need 18th century muskets.

    No arms, musket, AR, or other, would have any use in a nuclear war.
     
  24. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, that is my point.
    Would the USA ever in a million years agree to totally disarm ... except for reliance on a militia armed with ar15s? Of course not. Because it I s ludicrous to suggest that citizens armed with ar15 Present a significant defensive deterrent.

    the reality is that our national defensive situation is roughly the same whether all citizens have ar15, or no citizens have ar15 ... this statement would not have been true with muskets in the colonial era.... although, even then, the fact is that that Washington’s army required significant help from the French including cannons, troops, and the French fleet.... it was not just the minutemen that defeated the redcoats
     
  25. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    prefer AK. but i've never really been a racecar guy either
     

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