UK Conservatives win BIG: Boris Johnson hails 'new dawn' after historic victory

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Talon, Dec 13, 2019.

  1. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,965
    Likes Received:
    3,421
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    The Leave Tories, after the vote, have always wanted a hard Brexit and that is what their backers want. Jonathon Cook understands them

    https://consortiumnews.com/2019/12/16/corbyns-defeat-has-slain-the-lefts-last-illusion/

    and this is interesting information. In ads 88% of the Tories were not accurate and the Lib Dems were not much better. The one party which appears to have attempted to tell the truth is Labour

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-50726500

    No sane country acts as we have. Now we have made our bed......
     
  2. James Knapp

    James Knapp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2018
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    699
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Gender:
    Male
    An awful lot of that is true. I agree with 80% of it BUT that does not excuse Corbyn and how shiz the Labour Party actually are. It sounds a lot like spin to make it look like Corbyn is actually a hero and the right man. Propaganda itself which it claims to call out?
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2019
    allegoricalfact likes this.
  3. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Gender:
    Female
    It isn't our main export market. It is our main import market and there in is our negotiating strength. I expect we will give on products that the EU do buy from us and not where we feel we have a better market outside the EU but their 'level playing field' is not in our interest, is it? I think all Brexiteers would rather a no deal than a rotten one - no matter how tough things might be for a while but from the way I see it it is not the trade deals which are the biggest problems ahead for us but how we shall unravel ourselves from the admin which the EU has insidiously planted into our old systems of governance. I look forward to the beginning of the 10 yrs of repeals ahead and wonder which the first will be. Parliament is going to be exciting for the next few years, that is for sure.

    We already control some goods coming to GB from NI; which has had but a cursory mentioned in all of this, even though we are still in the same group of islands and even within the EU. As Ian Paisley said ' I am British but my cows are Irish'. If we can do it with NI we can surely do it with the EU, just on a larger scale.

    We shall be able to judge, by who Boris choses for negotiations, where he intends to go, won't we? That is all we can do now, wait and see.
     
  4. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Gender:
    Female
    alexa, post: 1071263885,

    By the Leave Tories do you mean the ERG? With a majority of 80 seats they no longer have the power they did. We shall see whether Boris includes any of them in the Cabinet or the negotiations after we leave on 31st Jan. If any are included then we'll know that they intend to be going in for some tough negotiations --- lol the EU won't know what has hit them!..

    Your piece is skewed from a 'lefty' pov, though of course some of it is correct, it doesn't tell the whole story, not at all and certainly not from the pov of the 'left behind people' in the Northern and Welsh Red seats turned Blue but from the intellectual left pov. The working classes are far more intelligent and knowing than your fella gives them credit for. The European Coal and Steel Community ( in the Rome Treaty) closed down the industries - more mines were closed under Labour than the Tories but yes, Thatcher shut down manufacturing - and hating local govs se made things worse than they were from the Local Gov Act 1972. EU Directives have now finished off our once uniquely independent municipalities and forced them to sell public assets - Thatcher allowed council house residence to buy their homes but at the same time brought in 'buy to let' - so that rents went sky high - social housing gone because under the Treaty on the Functioning of the EU we may not build any more - Homelessness, as has not been seen for well over a century, with poor souls sleeping rough cannot be solved because whilst in the EU IF we began to house all vagrants we would have to house anyone who was on the streets from any EU member state which would bring millions here demanding homes.
    In the Midlands and the North immigration levels have, due to Blair's revenge on 'the Right', stretched our, already neglected, infrastructures to the limit - aside from many many social problems that must and have come out of a sudden and massive influx of another culture.
    .
    The BBC was/is anti Brexit and was/is anti Boris.They hate Boris and wanted Labour to win. With Corbyn, a small majority no doubt, but they did not want what we have got now. Blair's slow march through the institutions has not gone unnoticed, I assure you.

    Of Boris, he is a very special character, is he not? He is endearing, no matter how many messes he gets into, people like him and he is fun - his optimism is a breath of fresh air - on a serious note though he has a talent for delegating to the right person - he has surrounded himself with talented people. We are yet to see ................. what sort of a PM that Boris shall become - give him a chance.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2019
  5. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Gender:
    Female
    My daughter is a Corbynista - they are distraught - it is like a cult - a Dustbyn cult! - Oh dear but thank God that is over. I was terrified at the thought of his Trots taking power weren't you?
     
  6. Space_Time

    Space_Time Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2015
    Messages:
    12,422
    Likes Received:
    1,965
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Here's more:

     
  7. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Gender:
    Female
    Media was just memory really - Jeremy did take members of Sinn Fein into Westminster Palace just two weeks after an IRA bomb had killed and or maimed members of the Tory Party in Brighton. He and Mcdonnell did support the IRA during the Troubles and have supported other groups which the gov officially claim to be terrorist enemies of the state. One can sympathise, in some cases, with their stance and that world peace be their aim but those two and others didn't seem to be able to change from having been a protest group for 35 yrs into becoming a credible choice for government. They were going to give us everything free from broadband to child care - have a 4 day working week - nationalise everything that moves, tax us on our gardens - the list become incredible - open door immigration - giving Chequers ( official PMs residences as well as No 10) to the homeless - giving the vote to 16 & 17 yr olds and all EU citizens. The Shadow Home Sec Diane Abbot has obviously got the beginnings of dementia or something and her son bite a Police man just a few days ago - Other members of the shadow front bench insulted their working class electorate, on a daily basis, for voting Leave. Corbyn and Mcdonnell went from being life long Brexiteers to the opposite as was the Party stance - the media didn't have to tell us all of this, Labour told us themselves - Two of the best Labour MPs were Caroline Flint and Kate Hoey - Kate left of her own accord before the election, you can find her easily on google, she was a life long friend of Jeremy'e but her judgement of his shadow gov was damning. Caroline lost her seat -



    The British do not like extremes let alone idiocy.
     
  8. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,965
    Likes Received:
    3,421
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Margaret Hodge called Jeremy Corbyn who has worked all of his life against racism and antisemitism a '****en racist and antisemitist'. Corbyn does not support the US/Israel Colonisation of Israel. The US however even supports the killing of Palestinians for protesting the taking of their land which they have a legal right to be living in. The main form of abuse against Corbyn was to suggest he was an antisemitist. The real situation made more obvious given that left wing Jews who are the main Jews in the Labour Party do not experience this antisemitism. John Bercow - our well known speaker, a Jew, said after he had resigned as Speaker, he had been friends with Corbyn for years and did not believe in any way that he was an antisemite. He said he, and he is a Tory, or was, may have changed now they have moved to the far right - anyway he said he had never experienced antisemitism from the Labour Party but had from another Party but would not say who it was.

    Mike Pence or Trump cannot remember which promised a Jew he would make sure that Corbyn would not get elected PM.

    The Head Chief Rabbi or whatever he is called urged the people of the UK to vote for the hard right Tories and that to vote for the Labour Party was to vote for immorality.

    I heard last night that Melani Phillips has said it is antisemetic to use the word Islamophobia. I haven't checked it but heard it I think on Novara Media.

    We already know that Israel though her embassy has been interfering in the Government/sovereignty of the UK. They certainly seem to have been interfering in our election. People could be forgiven for thinking that non left British Jews won the British election for Israel.

    Jamie Stern-Weiner made a video called 'Smoke without Fire - The Myth of a Labour Antisemitism Crises ' after the Chief Rabbi's intervention in the British Election talking about him doing just that and as I said doing it for Israel. I can't find it but this seems to be similar while giving evidence of the reality of antisemitism in the Labour Party. It is very low and has decreased while Corbyn has been leader.


    Smoke Without Fire: The Myth of a ‘Labour Antisemitism Crisis’


    This is the worst misuse of the word antisemitism.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2019
  9. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Gender:
    Female
    "alexa, post: 1071265934,
    There is a video in the link:

    Though I agree that the word anti-semitism is wrongly used and etc Jewish members of the Labour Party where targeted and felt they had to leave - I think it was 11 MPs who say they were bullied out - a person and a cause are two separate matters, imho. There is no-one more critical of Israel than me - nor of some Jewish practices and so on but ............

    ''Jeremy Corbyn has been told by furious MPs the election defeat was entirely his fault, amid claims that Labour will be damaged “every day” he remains in post.

    During an extraordinary meeting of Labour parliamentarians, Mr Corbyn faced an onslaught of criticism over his personal handling of the election as he addressed his party for the first time since the result.

    It came just hours after he was publicly confronted by Mary Creagh, the former MP for Wakefield who lost her seat to the Conservatives.

    In a 20-minute tirade in full view of politicians and staff in Parliament, Ms Creagh told him that he “needed to stand down” immediately.

    "I said that he needed to stand down as leader and that every day he remained was another day that put the Labour Party back from rebuilding and renewing," she recalled.
    On Tuesday evening at the meeting attended MPs and peers, including former leader Lord Kinnock, Mr Corbyn was told he was “the biggest drag” on Labour’s vote and that his sweeping spending plans had made the party look “economically illiterate”.

    Jess Phillips, a leadership frontrunner, read out a message from defeated Labour MP Melanie Onn saying the leadership did not bother about her northern seat, Great Grimsby.

    Catherine McKinnell, the MP for Newcastle upon Tyne North, also challenged Mr Corbyn over the lack of support provided to colleagues as she listed the traditional northern seats which had fallen to Boris Johnson.
    On Tuesday night a prominent Labour peer claimed that MPs had been “overwhelmingly critical” of Mr Corbyn, whilst another said he had been “cut to ribbons” under the weight of anger from his MPs.

    Summarising the mood, a former minister told reporters the meeting was filled with “fury and despair” but that Mr Corbyn’s top table had seemed in “total denial” and suffering from “corporate amnesia”.

    Others ratcheted up pressure on Mr Corbyn to sack Seumas Milne and Karie Murphy, his two most senior aides.

    One MP described their continued employment whilst dozens of other staff faced being made redundant as a “basic injustice,'' while another questioned the “generous severance packages” they will be paid should be asked to step aside.

    And in a scathing speech on Wednesday, Tony Blair, the former Labour Prime Minister, will warn Jeremy Corbyn that the “period of reflection” he intends to hold before quitting will cause “irreparable damage” to Labour if he and allies attempt to absolve themselves of blame.

    Mr Corbyn told MPs that Brexit had been a major factor in his defeat - whilst also telling them that they should vote against Mr Johnson’s deal when it comes to Parliament.

    Critics said he had failed to learn the lessons of the election. Lord Mann, the former MP for Bassetlaw, said it would show ex-Labour voters who switched to the Conservative that they had “made the right decision”.

    Meanwhile, the race to succeed Mr Corbyn intensified, as allies of frontrunner Sir Keir Starmer hit back at attempts to discredit him as a London-based Remainer.

    Last night Sir Keir confirmed he was "seriously considering" running to be leader, as he admitted that Labour had failed to counter the Tories' pledge to "get Brexit done" or tackle anti-Semitism in its ranks.

    In a thinly veiled swiped at Mr Corbyn, he told the Guardian last night that the party had been damaged by "too much factionalism" and must now return to being a "broad church".

    However, he claimed that the "case for a bold and radical Labour government is as strong now as it was last Thursday," in an apparent attempt to attract pro-Corbyn members who may feel he is not left-wing enough.

    Hitting back at claims from the hard-Left that he is too middle class to win back working class communities, he also pointed out that his father was a tool maker and his mother a nurse.

    Allies of Angela Rayner, the shadow education secretary, also urged her to consider running for leader rather than as deputy to Rebecca Long-Bailey, amid growing speculation that the two flatmates will run on a joint ticket.

    While Ms Long-Bailey, the shadow business secretary, commands the backing of prominent Corbynistas including John McDonnell, Ms Rayner is likely to be backed by more MPs and trade union figures.

    MPs also expressed concern the Labour leadership may try and influence the selection of Mr Corbyn’s successor, as they were told new members signing up to vote would have to be vetted.
    Jennie Formby, the party's general secretary, was heckled as she said new members would need to be in line with "our values".

    Writing in the Daily Telegraph, Labour MP Wes Streeting warns against rigging the leadership process to favour "continuity Corbynism” candidates by “excluding Labour supporters".

    Ms Creagh described Labour’s election campaign as a “disaster”.

    She told the Telegraph: “The manifesto was a joke and all the claims about it being properly costed went out the window the moment they pulled out £60bn for the Waspi women.

    "I said you need to spend less time in London being surrounded by people telling you you’re great like those young people taking selfies with you.”

    She added: "I said that he needed to stand down as leader and that every day he remained was another day that put the Labour Party back from rebuilding and renewing."

    However, Ms Creagh claimed Mr Corbyn attempted to deflect blame onto the media, and when confronted over his handling of anti-Semitism accused her of going “too far” and descending into a “character assassination”.

    Mr Corbyn also faced calls to sack his director of communications Mr Milne and Ms Murphy, his former chief of staff who was seconded to Labour headquarters to run the party’s election campaign.

    Last night one MP said they had presided over a “catalogue of failings”, adding: “Why were shadow cabinet ministers touring constituencies with rock solid majorities whilst seats we lost received barely any attention at all. There has to be accountability.”

    9:12pm
    Thank you for joining us
    It's been a difficult day for Jeremy Corbyn, as he was told he "needed to stand down" by former Wakefield MP Mary Creagh, and attended a hostile meeting of the PLP.

    We'll leave you with Matt's take on Boris Johnson's commitment to ensure no more Brexit delays.

    [​IMG]




    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...s-election-deal-cabinet-boris-johnson-labour/
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2019
  10. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2017
    Messages:
    20,614
    Likes Received:
    8,980
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    We still have a large segment of Americans that hold to that ideal. Should we settle for anything lessor? "My ancestor said "Live free or die" I'll go with that.
     
    Talon likes this.
  11. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,965
    Likes Received:
    3,421
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    No sorry. I have been following this from the beginning. Please give the names so that I can do a proper check. I am guessing those who did the Panorama program which I did not see but heard was out and out lies.

    People of course can be confronted because of what they themselves have done. Margaret's Hodges behaviour was beyond contempt. She has apparently had death threats over that. That of course is totally unacceptable but I could ever respect her and that is because of how she acted.

    I have been following this from the beginning and there is far too much to write but seriously being confronted with information that antisemitism is low in Labour and has become lower you really believe that what you put in says anything.

    It has nothing to do with whether you like Israel or not. It has to do with reality. The Al Jazeera programs which have been investigated by everyone and their dogs were found to be absolutely above board. The showed that all of the Friends of Israel groups in the UK were not inspired by UK people but came out of the Israeli Embassy and were encouraged by Free Holidays to Israel. Many people in Blairite Labour are involved in this. They pretend even now to be wanting a 2 state solution but when asked how they expected to achieve this they accused the person of antisemitism. That is the level at which antisemitism is in the UK at the moment. Now these same programs also showed that people in the Israeli Embassy were working to 'bring down MP's' who felt the Palestinians should have rights. Further they showed how they worked with MP's as their assistants to get them to say things or ask questions which would encourage MP's to act according to the will of Israel. For example prior to Israel's attack on Gaza 2014, one of them worked with an MP (who was ignorant of what was happening) in order to get him to push Cameron so that he agreed that Israel had the right to do anything Israel wanted and the UK would support them due to the kidnapping and murder of 3 Israeli teens. What Israel did was her attack on Gaza killing over 2000 people and injuring for life tens of thousands. Gaza has still not recovered from what was done to her. The UN believes Gaza is no longer suitable for human habitation due to these attacks. Manipulating this was an attack on our sovereignty.

    Apart from that since around 2000, Israel has been trying to change what is antisemitism from what it really is basically hatred, stereotyping and prejudice against a Jew because they are a Jew. Holding a particular image in ones mind of what a Jew is and once one finds out someone is a Jew replace what one previous thought to them to this - to criticism of the Zionist colonial project which is supported by the American Christian Right looking for Armageddon.

    I have got a sick grandson here so cannot spend too much time and I could write a book on this subject.

    Paul Mason descripted the business of the right wing Jews not feeling happy in the Labour party as an argument between Zionist and Bunds Jews in the Labour Party. Many left wing Jews have been thrown out of the Party...generally the first offering was antisemitism though that was generally changed after they knew they would be taken to court.The English courts have so far refused to call antisemetic people's critical views on Israel. So far they have said that as we are a democracy people are free to have their own political position. They tried the courts first. When that didn't work they moved to character assassination and lies from the Corporate media.

    Our country should be free to have whatever position it wants on any country in the world.

    A lot of good people are being destroyed because they believe in things like human rights and are not racist.

    This is just another reason for me wanting Independence. England is no longer a free society.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2019
  12. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Gender:
    Female
    I saw freedom of speech disappear here in the early 1980s. In the end most people now speak in whispers about many many silly, normal, every day affairs for fear of losing their jobs or being ostracised for being un PC. Once we could all say whatever we wished and might be thought a fool for saying it but now!!! I could also write a book on that - but have other things to do. Douglas Murray has written something on it recently, I think.

    On Labour and the Jews ---- mainly coming from the Left ( who cry loudest about abuse) politics today has become hatefully 'toxic', social media doesn't help - 3000 people were arrested last year for the none crime of 'hate speech' which even though not a crime is put on their record forever. Labour has ignored its working class base and instead has been courting the youth vote but more seriously it has courted the Muslim vote ( Muslims vote on bloc for Labour) - therefore they have not been sympathetic to any anti Jewish feelings, be it against Israel or single Jews because they side with the radical Muslim - 'oh yes they do'! It is in Labour areas that the Mirpuri rape gangs have mainly gone on unhindered, raping very young girls, selling them on and selling heroin and openly carrying gun.

    They must do as they please but the call of anti semitism was not the direct reason that they lost this last election and if anything they have made any argument in favour of Palestine all the more difficult by association - of their Marxism. I see it now in negative Lab comments everywhere - they have done irreparable damage to the possibility of any open dialogue by pushing their communist agenda.

    Caroline Flint said it was 11 who left over anti semitism - I remember the 9 leaving together - https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/47277863 - two others left separately but I don't remember their names now.

    Scottish elections are in May - we shall see how they vote then.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2019
  13. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,066
    Likes Received:
    636
    Trophy Points:
    113
    All that was asked for was your evidence, i am interested too. How exactly are British Trade Unions funded or controlled by the European Union. Some incontrovertible evidence is needed or the assumption must be you're making it up for some reason.
    You have already conceded that the postal union did not back off as you said.
     
  14. Space_Time

    Space_Time Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2015
    Messages:
    12,422
    Likes Received:
    1,965
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Here's more:

     
  15. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Gender:
    Female
    It was about open ballots with a 'strong arm' standing over the voter - which wasn't the courts making said strike illegal - the ballot didn't give its members te ability to say no.

    The EU's funding is insidious - via Charities and the like

    This is a PDF but it gives the gist of how they do it

    file:///C:/Users/User/Pictures/Monitoring%20report%20volume%206_version%20finale.pdf

    more:-

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Trade_Union_Confederation

    https://www.eurofound.europa.eu/observatories/eurwork/industrial-relations-dictionary/trade-unions

    https://uk.blastingnews.com/opinion...thousands-of-pounds-in-eu-cash-002151773.html

    I could site many more - this is why I said 'you don't understand the EU' - because nothing is straightforward via the EU - nothing at all.

    The Trade Unions have a huge influence on the Labour Party. For 35 yrs Corbyn and Mcdonnell were ardent Brexiteers and then: -https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1148273296825376768 - they became Remain. Now why would the Unions want us to Remain?

    I don't have time to give you a comprehensive answer - it would take weeks - if not months to put together - but over time I've seen enough of the 'way it is done' - try reading their laws some time.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2019
  16. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,066
    Likes Received:
    636
    Trophy Points:
    113
    A lot of noise but hardly any evidence. What I did notice is that 99% of Union income comes from it's members.
     
  17. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Gender:
    Female
    Bubby, I am not doing the work it would involve for me to find you the proof - I have a lot of EU law to rake through as it is. I've given you a starter if you want to pursue it - I'll tell you it is never very easy to follow the trail - but look into the 'charities'.

    99% which pays for what?
     
  18. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,066
    Likes Received:
    636
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The proof can't be provided because it doesn't exist. Trade unions are not funded by, or under the control of the EU, simple as that.
     
  19. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Gender:
    Female
    I didn't say they were funded by but that the Unions get funding from the EU via work related and 'social' related schemes and via charities.

    No-one said anything about control - funding buys loyalty not obedience.
     
  20. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,066
    Likes Received:
    636
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Help me out here, you didn't say they were funded, then you say funding buys loyalty.
    The EU has funded (in terms of giving back a proportion of the UK initial contribution) all sorts of UK developments, initiatives, regions and projects that touches on all our lives, in the process some Trade Union members might be affected because they live in the UK.
    There is no loyalty or obedience demanded of UK Trade Unions by the EU whatsoever. None.
    It is something somebody somewhere made up.
     
  21. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Gender:
    Female
    We give the EU money - They give some back and tell us what to do with it. Funding goes into many projects via the back door. The EU is insidious in its ways. In the wording of its Treaties, preambles included, and laws there is rarely a straight line in EU law.

    Here you go again - I said nothing about demand. I said that the Unions get funding from the EU, via 'the back door' = a form of corruption wrapped up in 'do gooding' legal paper. Defend the EU all that you like - in the years following our departure the cracks appearing in the righteous causes will show that Brexiteers were right - and that includes the funding as it falls away over time - for now some of it will stay as we shall keep funding those projects ( they are always named projects, eh?) that we are obliged to for many years to come.

    Regions? - Another false EU invention that most people here don't even realise exists. .
     
  22. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,066
    Likes Received:
    636
    Trophy Points:
    113
    In this instance I am not defending the EU particularly. Trade Unions existed before the EU was thought of and your stuff about the getting any specific benefit through the 'back door' is simply wrong. I don't know who has been telling you this stuff, maybe it is a kind of scattergun paranoia, but such a wrong assertion undermines your credibility on anything else.
     
  23. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Gender:
    Female
    I did know a man who worked for a Union for many years but what he has told me, over the years, is anecdotal and I shan't even bother to tell any of it.

    This is how and why the EU had anyone; outside the very young who are only taught, in school, that the EU gave us workers rights - untrue - and Human Rights - again untrue, voting to stay = bribery. The EU in their telling us where to spend our own money has its own agenda - which is not what is necessarily what we need or want. for instance, monies are spent on building homes where no one lives when said money would be better spent elsewhere. Those people and or companies who gain contracts and or jobs by EU mandates will not want things to go back to our govs making the decisions - and that includes the Unions. Any one who lived through the '70s is well aware that the Unions no longer work in the interests of their members --- after Bob Crow's death, he was the last man standing.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2019
  24. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,066
    Likes Received:
    636
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Lengthy reply but on the issue of the Trade Unions being in anyway in thrall to the EU is wrong.
     
  25. allegoricalfact

    allegoricalfact Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Messages:
    3,339
    Likes Received:
    59
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Gender:
    Female
    I disagree :)
     

Share This Page