Afghanistan Remembered

The deadly lies that have sustained the Bush/Cheney Afghan fiasco since 2001 have been exposed, giving Fake Don a credible pretext to finally do what he has passed gas about for years.

What was Bush’s disastrous war became Obama’s, and what was Obama’s became Trump’s.

Will he suddenly cut and run as he did when he betrayed US allies in Northern Syria, surrendering US bases to Putin [Vlady knows better than to retrogress into the 'Graveyard of Empires', of course] or will he replace the quagmire policy with a limited, vital, dedicated force such as he has decimated in Syria with his phony “bring the troops home” pretext? (They did not come home.)

On Thanksgiving Day, 2019, Trump screeched one of his enduring lies, this one concerning Afghanistan:

“We are winning like we haven’t
won in a long time!”
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“Never invade Afghanistan!” is a repeated, unheeded lesson of history concerning the perennial trap sprung by exaggerated threat and precipitous action that results in inevitable humiliation, purchased at an exorbitant cost in lives and treasure.

Fools rush in where ours-is-not-to-reason-why boots on the ground slog into open pits of super-glue.

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Trump, who earns the consistent and relentless disapproval of most Americans, has an ideal opportunity to transcend the folly of his predecessors and honor his commitment to withdraw.

Rather than whining about being branded with the big "I", finally ending the bloody fiasco would accrue to his credit.

 

Lies kill.

Bring them home.

“We are winning like we haven’t
won in a long time!”
​

 

Still on the pot after all these years of whining.

 

Have you noticed how dramatically the number of US deaths in Afghanistan has gone down? That is a very good thing.

 

20th American Service Member Killed In Deadly Year For U.S. In Afghanistan
December 24, 2019
https://www.npr.org/2019/12/24/7911...n-makes-2019-deadliest-there-in-years-for-u-s
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If some approve of the continued squandering US lives after Trump's raving "Time to come home!" as early as 2012, then that is what they approve of.

 

and when he talks about bringing everyone home, the democrats gripe about leaving a power vacuum. Personally, I believe we should get out of almost all foreign involvements. We rare good warriors, but poor peace keepers.

 

Dude 20 in a year? That's a good weekend in Chicago. Traffick accidents are worse. Another thread dedicated to the fact that no matter what Trump does you will complain of it.

 

Inasmuch as the Constitution states that Congress has the sole power to "declare war", and inasmuch as the AUMF of 2001 was, in effect, a declaration of war, if I were the POTUS, I think I would take this question to Congress. I believe that our Founders intended for Congress to have purview over questions of war and peace, not the President. And so, I would let them debate the question and make a call. And, whatever the outcome of that debate, I would follow. As president, I would follow the path we chose together, according to authority the Constitution vested in Congress, rather than to make this decision on my own.

 

Which is why I posted this response above ...

Inasmuch as the Constitution states that Congress has the sole power to "declare war", and inasmuch as the AUMF of 2001 was, in effect, a declaration of war, if I were the POTUS, I think I would take this question to Congress. I believe that our Founders intended for Congress to have purview over questions of war and peace, not the President. And so, I would let them debate the question and make a call. And, whatever the outcome of that debate, I would follow. As president, I would follow the path we chose together, according to authority the Constitution vested in Congress, rather than to make this decision on my own.

 

AUMF is malignant sophistry, delivered by our elected representatives.

 

Amazing how, within the context of a slander designed to appear as a serious observation, that you see only one side of anything. Not that it is unusual, that is SOP for the left.

You portray leaving Afghanistan as "Cut and run", and portray the options as equally negative. Trump negative- every observation you make is based on that.

The Russians were in Afghanistan for about 10 years before they wised up and walked away. The French were in Vietnam even longer- but we followed both of them as if we could do a better job, and could not.
To a Trump hater- nothing he might do would be the right choice, because it's not about criticism of the subject, be it Afghanistan or the immigration problem- the motive and target is always to smear Trump.
Legitimacy doesn't matter. We are used to that underlying motivation of the left, and it's long since gone past boring, to the point of illustrating that there is no real concern for the subject of a smear at all- that is only the excuse- An excuse to abuse and smear. Lame. Lame to the extreme.

 

If you need to believe that Trump has failed to make good on his repeatedly-stated commitment to leave Afghanistan because he is being intimidated by unspecified "Democrats", that is what you will believe.

Donald J. Trump✔
@realDonaldTrump
We have wasted an enormous amount of blood and treasure in Afghanistan.
Their government has zero appreciation. Let's get out!
2,235
3:06 PM - Nov 21, 2013​

 

But delivered by them nonetheless. They authorized the war in accordance with their constitutional authority. If I were the POTUS, I would ask Congress to debate this and make a call. It is their war, actually. Technically, constitutionally, it is their war, not Bush's, Obama's, or Trump's. They may continue it, or they may end it. That is what I'd tell them.

This is what the Founders intended. Congress makes the decision. In matters of war, the Founders designated the President to be the Commander in Chief of the military only. He was specifically not designated to be the Commander in Chief of decisions to go to war.

If Trump is worried about losing Afghanistan to the taliban on his watch, or if he wants to pull out completely and let the taliban overrun the Afghan government, or if he would like to go the other way and ramp up our forces in Afghanistan and push back against the taliban, or if he just wants to commit enough military resources to provide for a stalemate - then he can tell Congress what he thinks. But one thing he shouldn't worry about is domestic political blowback on this decision, because it isn't his decision. Whatever happens should be what Congress decides, not him.

The Constitution gives him complete political cover on this issue if he would just avail himself of it.

 

See Trump's own verbatim statements above without trying to divert attention elsewhere.

Dispassionately compare them to his continuing Afghan policy.

Note the stark disparity.

 

“Bush lied, people died”

That’s a red flag for a double digit IQ.

 

No matter what Trump does, democrats say he is wrong. If he brings them all home, he is leaving a power vacuum. If he leaves some there, he is not doing it fast enough. What he is doing is a vast improvement over what has happened in the past. I would like to see them all come home from combat areas and that includes Syria and Iraq .

 

Note that he has information at his disposal that you have no idea exists. That he has multiple pressures- such as the hawks demanding the opposite of the doves, which happens in every conflict. Everybody has an opinion, thinks that theirs is the only good one, and those who disagree are idiots. And like you, they all want to tell the leader what he should do....... Because they have no idea what leadership is; they assume it is making them happy. Wrong.

And note on other very important point. Trump is open, you see the various considerations he has, virtually sharing his thinking. NO president has ever done that before- what they have done is follow the polls, the news and the public wind, then have their public relations people distill that and speech-writers tell them what you wish to hear, and figure out how to say something that makes you think you have heard it without committing to a damn thing- the non-denial denials, etc. First president that has not constantly treated the people like they couldn't be trusted with the truth- and you are proving that a lot of them can't.

 

Exactly. The perceived enemy of the left, the one they want vanquished- is Trump. He threatens their objectives of power and control over people, their pursuit of socialism and even crazier things.

 

AUMF is sophistry because it pretends to be meaningful when it is not. That is, POTUS already is C-in-C. He already can do as he pleases with the military, by way of Section II of the document. As FDR put it so well, "I can wage war, but I cannot declare war."

AUMF is the cornerstone of the hoax called GWOT, and all that nonsense is spawn of the staged attacks on 911. It is all repugnant to the Constitution, and no citizen has an obligation to obey acts repugnant to the document, and no citizen has an obligation to pretend the AUMF and GWOT are legitimate.

 

And some Republicans would say he is wrong too no matter what he does. That is why he should just go with the intent of the Constitution and give this decision to Congress - where it should be. He doesn't have to go it alone.

 

It is up to Trump on how to wage war. If he tries to do it with Congress, it will never get anywhere because there will never be any agreement on anything and even if they did agree, it would take too long to implement. You cannot wage war by committee.

 

What FDR said is what I'm saying. The President may conduct a war ("I can wage war"), but he may not, on his own, decide to go to war ("but I cannot declare war").

If I were the POTUS, I would tell Congress to debate our war effort in Afghanistan, make a decision, and then I'd go with it.

 

I agree completely, but as the Afghanistan Papers have detailed, not one of the men holding the office has had the courage to do that.

George started the fraud, Congress abdicated and gave him AUMF, Barack positively loved the Unitary Executive, did not know the difference between right and wrong, soundly ignored his oath of office, while Donald chummed everybody up with lip service and is now protected stolen oil fields in Syria.

The beat goes on. Constitutional governance dies to thunderous applause and record deficits.

 

To clarify, it is the job of the President to wage war - to carry out the nuts and bolts and strategy of actually waging a war. That is not the job of Congress. The constitutional duty of Congress is to decide IF the war is to be conducted.

 

What has congress decided?