Iraq’s prime minister told the US to start making plans to withdraw its troops from the country

https://www.businessinsider.sg/iraq-pm-tells-america-withdraw-troops-2020-1/

This is yet another in a long list of Nations that have been giving the US the middle finger due to infringements on sovereignty.

Trump has been going around trying to club the nations of the world into submission - compliance with his unilateral sanctions on Iran - by using the so called "Nuclear Option" - blocking that nations banks and corporations out of the international system of payments.

This had caused a huge backlash - with nations firing back with the strongest language "You are messing with our sovereignty" - not in private - but on the public stage.

There are few things that get a population more riled up than another nation messing with its sovereignty. Imagine if some nation did this to the US - the backlash of the public would be fierce - which then results in almost forced action by politicians.

It is no different in other nations. Our economic security is suffering - Imagine if there was a competitive bid for some contract - and one of the companies in the bid was from the offending nation - good luck getting the contract.

In decades of modern US History - we have never seen so many nations basically give us the middle finger - at the same time.

Germany is going ahead with Nordstream - despite massive protestation
Italy is going ahead with the belt and road initiative - against US protest
India/Turkey are buying the S-400 - despite threats and massive protest.
Even Britain (our lapdog) declined our request to hold the Iranian ship - a small example but noteworthy considering it was the Brit's.

The above are just a few examples.

While Trump is going around trying to club other nations into submission and messing with their sovereignty. China and Russia are going around doing deals.

 

The US is no longer into even the pretense of respecting sovereignty or the choice of the people in other countries, etc. Trump proudly boasts that US troops in Syria are now re-positioned to take "Syria's oil". In the meantime, on this issue and in reaction to Iraq's request:

 

From October 2019 -
Pentagon chief says American troops leaving Syria will conduct anti-ISIS operations from Iraq
https://www.militarytimes.com/flash...erican-troops-leaving-syria-for-western-iraq/

Perhaps not ..

 

I like how this statement starts out with a "necessary illusion". "America is a force for Good in the Middle East" .

This is preposterously false - in almost every respect. How was arming, supplying and supporting a radical Islamist proxy army in Syria acting as a force for good. On the contrary - we were a force for evil.

We are already being investigated for complicity in war crimes/crimes against humanity for our actions in Yemen. Our responsibility for the atrocity in Syria is far greater than the complicity in Yemen.

 

Old hotness: We can't abandon the Kurds!

New hotness: We have to abandon the Kurds!

 

The US abandoned the Kurds in Syria, handed them over to their enemy the Turks.
The Kurds in Syria did the heavy lifting against ISIS and than got discarded by the US.
What a great ally the US is.

 

the fact that Trump abandoned are allies in the fight again terrorists, is why we will have a harder time in the future getting allies to help us fight terrorists

right now Iraq would like to stand up against Iran, but they know when the USA leaves, they still have to deal with Iran

working with the kurds took very little military support, abandoning them was stupid

 

I support President Trump's actions with regard to Iran in the past couple of weeks, but if the Iraqi government wants us out, I'm fine with that.

 

We worked with the Kurds to defeat ISIS. I don't see where that commits us to stay in Syria forever.

 

Merkel and her Secretary of State were in Moscow. Talking with Putin about Iran and the Middle East and naturally Nord Stream.
Putin declared he will make Nord Stream a Russian project, finishing it. Which it will be finished.
Russia and Germany declared they will stand behind the deal with Iran.
Putin urged the EU to finalize their special payment method to continue trade with Iran and bypass US sanction.

The power balance is shifting, away from the US.

Turk Stream was just opened. Nice photo op for Putin and Erdogan. There to the power balance is shifting, away from the US and the US dominated NATO.

 

There is something so very funny about a supporter of Iran complaining about any other nation not respecting national sovereignty.

As for Iraq, the PM there resigned months ago as a result of protests against his government & its close ties to Iran. Iranian backed militias murdered over 400 protesters in a spectacular display of respect for national sovereignty. So, he is in caretaker mode and can't make big decisions like throwing out US forces.

Iraq's Parliament needs to do that by passing legislation to revoke the previous request for US assistance. It has not done that. Iranian-backed Shia parties passed a non-binding resolution on US forces leaving. Most non-Shia members were not present and do not support US troops leaving. They don't want Iraq becoming an Iranian puppet state.

There is no guarantee the Parliament will revoke the legislation authorising US troops, but if it does US troops will respect the wished of Iraqis & leave. No one believes Iran will do anything similar, despite ongoing anti-Iran protests.

 

You do not discard your allies, once they have done the job for you and hand them over to their worst enemy.
Their is a moral connection between allies, loyalty and if you break that without proper reason, for selfish reasons, than you become what ?
Outcast with whom nobody wants to partner, that is what is happening.

 

we were not there in a fighting mode, we were there as a sign that we would protect our allies, pretty simple really and the honorable thing to do, but Trump is not honorable

 

Our mission was the defeat of ISIS. Anything beyond that is called "mission creep". You two would have us stay in Syria forever because the Turks, Kurds, Alawites, Shiites, and Sunnis will always and forever have their problems. They have all lived in the area for centuries, and they will continue to. Babysitting these ethno/religious sects is not our business in Syria.

Many of us in the U.S. do not want to be the world's policeman.

 

Soleimani was working with the Kurds against ISIS. The US murdered him. The US is just totally ****ed up in its imperialism out there. You are friends with those who created/supported ISIS and kill those who fight ISIS...and on another level you went to war in Iraq having been told there were no WMD's and no extremist Muslims but that the very thing which would get them there would be an attack on Iraq which of course it did and which presumably your government wanted to cause failed states in the ME.

America should pack up and go home. She has done way more damage than any country should.

 

when our ally does most of the fighting for us, at least we could do is stand behind them, I get that many on the right do not get this - good luck getting future allies to risk their lives for us

 

While some in Iraq want distance from Iran I don't think it is anywhere near as much as you put above and not only did the US killing unite Iran, they also killed several Shia who used to be in the special Iran armies fighting ISIS but who are now part of the Iraqi army - in reality the US was killing Iraqi soldiers and that was not appreciated and I heard united the people of Iraq with Iran. Then you have the reality that according to the Iraq PM Soleimani was coming to Iraq to speak to the Sauds about de-escalation. I understand Trump was invited or something. This was presumably how they knew where he was and instead of allowing something moving to peace acted to escalate the situation. (The Saud's have apparently been acting on de-escalating the situation since the attack on their oil fields) If this is true and most people who speak of it seem to believe it is then the US in killing Soleimani not only murdered someone belonging to the state apparatus of another country but did so when they had been told he was coming to be involved in moves towards peace. It really is the lowest of the low and without question shows that the US does not want peace there.

Basically this is all about Israel, the Saud's and from the US, the Christian Zionists. If the US gets out of the way, they can sort out things for themselves. Do you remember when it was a strong belief that even if you did not agree with what they were doing you let countries sort out things for themselves?

 

I don't know if you have any left despite Boris seeming to be willing though not to commit war crimes. There are already people in the UK wanting to be assured he will not get us involved and ...apparently an ex military spoke to one of our Politicians and warned them not to think Trump would ever give anything reciprocal to the UK. He would promise everything, take what he wanted and give nothing back.

Oh I guess you still have Australia and possibly Canada but the US is really losing Europe. Trump was demanding after the killing that Europe renege on JCPOA. They are not and I thought to suggest Europe do that as if it was the right thing to do when he had destroyed it and by that created a situation which was near war was beyond crazy.

 

Do you remember how they discarded them after the first gulf war. Called on them to rise up and when they did left them to be massacred. That on its own was one reason they did not get the welcome the soldiers had been told they would.

 

Then you would have us stay in Syria forever. Got it.

 

Right/left has nothing to do with it. Let me ask you a hard question. If you give me a straight, unambiguous answer, I'll buy you a beer.

If you had a son in the military, and he was killed during this prolonged presence in Syria and Iraq, would you think it was worth it?

I have had a son in combat in both Iraq and Afghanistan. He was wounded once and almost died. I attended the funerals of his battle buddies during his deployments.

These experiences color my thinking. And so now the question I asked you is my litmus test for military involvement.

 

I did not mention the US system of international payments but, that is perhaps more concerning than all the other things combined.

We were allowed to have this status by the other nations - and these other nations can rescind this status. This is why Trump threatening to block nations out of the SWIFT system is called "the Nuclear Option" - as it breaks the trust that was given us.

Nations had been moving slowly towards a competitor for years - and certainly since the 2008 crash - but very slowly. Now they have ramped up efforts to hasten the creation of one.

The History books will record the day that viable competitor exists - as the defacto end of the US economic Empire.

 

We worked with the Kurds to defeat ISIS in Raqqa - the last stronghold that ISIS had after Russia/Iran/Syrian Army had wiped them out of every other city.

Prior to that we had been allied with ISIS - arming, supplying and supporting them.

 

I don't think we should have been in Syria to begin with. Initially our mission in Syria was to arm, supply, and support a radical Islamist proxy army - to destabilize the nation. This army was led by Al Qaeda and ISIS.

 

Who is helping right now?