Supreme Court will hear case that could change how presidents are chosen

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by grapeape, Jan 17, 2020.

  1. grapeape

    grapeape Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/su...ourt-will-hear-case-could-change-how-n1113051

    OK, so if you didn’t think we need to rethink the EC, then your not paying attention.

    The Supreme Court is getting ready to decide if the EC members actually have to vote for who they are supposed to vote for. The ramifications of this are beyond huge. And lets be very clear here, if the SCOTUS decides that they don't have to vote based on the laws of the states, your votes will be worth even less than they are today because we are literally moving to allow 538 people to decide who is president.

    That isn’t an exaggeration, or some conspiracy theory, it will actually become the law of the land. ANYONE in the EC will become unbound to votes or party, and can literally do what they want.
     
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  2. StarFox

    StarFox Banned

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    It aint gunna happen. They will rule that the electors are bound by their states vote of the people.
     
  3. Thirty6BelowZero

    Thirty6BelowZero Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Can you imagine how unconstitutional this would have turned out if Hillary had won and the majority of SC Judges were liberal?

    We've dodged too many bullets that were too close for comfort, thank goodness we elected Trump.

    I can't figure out how the left is sworn to uphold the constitution in their oath, yet turn around and piss on it with zero repercussions.
     
  4. ModCon

    ModCon Well-Known Member

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    What if a state is split near 50-50 between the D and R candidate?
     
  5. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    The EC members could always vote however they wanted. The Founders expected them to vote their conscience and for what was best for the country. The People were never meant to vote for the President.
     
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  6. Labouroflove

    Labouroflove Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm paying attention. I think the Supreme Court will leave it up to the states.
     
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  7. Cubed

    Cubed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Then what the heck is the point of having a vote to begin with?
     
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  8. Thirty6BelowZero

    Thirty6BelowZero Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Then you get a recount until it's not 50/50. Florida 2000 is a good example.
     
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  9. grapeape

    grapeape Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    WTF are you on about ?

    How did they “piss on the constitution” ?
     
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  10. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    Makes people feel like they have control of the Presidency. But plain fact of the matter is that The People were only supposed to vote on the HoR, State Senates voted for the Senate, and the State Senates also chose the EC voters who chose the President. It wasn't until, iirc, our 3rd President where the States started to let people vote for the President. Anyways here's the relevant parts of the Constitution which shows this...

    For the HoR:

    Article 1 Section 2
    1: The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second Year by the People of the several States, and the Electors in each State shall have the Qualifications requisite for Electors of the most numerous Branch of the State Legislature.

    For the Senate:

    Article 1 Section 3
    1: The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, chosen by the Legislature thereof for six Years; and each Senator shall have one Vote.

    Article 2 Section 1
    2: Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.

    3: The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons, of whom one at least shall not be an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately chuse by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner chuse the President. But in chusing the President, the Votes shall be taken by States, the Representation from each State having one Vote; A quorum for this Purpose shall consist of a Member or Members from two thirds of the States, and a Majority of all the States shall be necessary to a Choice. In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal Votes, the Senate shall 8

    It was the individual States that started to allow The People to vote for the President. No where in the Constitution does it say that The People shall vote for the President.
     
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  11. grapeape

    grapeape Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You would be wrong. The original EC votes were based on popular vote(i.e. if 60 % of the vote wont to the R’s, they got 60% of the EC votes), but over time each state went to a “winner take all” rule for their state, which fundamentally changed the EC.
     
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  12. grapeape

    grapeape Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Today it doesnt matter. Every state moved to a winner take all EC. So one vote essentially decides all the electors

    The case in the OP is to basically invalidate any state law that makes them vote for any specific candidate. This case would allow them to vote for whomever they want, no matter what the popular vote is, or any law in their state
     
  13. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    No, actually I'm not wrong.

    United States Presidential Election

    As you can see it was a gradual thing where The People got to Vote for the President. As shown in my previous post the Constitution does not mention anything about The People voting for the President, that was left up to the States respectively.
     
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  14. opion8d

    opion8d Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Good references to the Constitution. I believe (WARNING! I am not on the Supreme Court) this will be something for the Supreme Court of the United States of America to chew on. Things change a little after 200+ years. Like...... a) three times bigger geographically, b) no longer an agrarian population, c) we have the telegraph, etc., d) we have a few more people now, d) we have more states with their several individual rights, etc.
     
  15. grapeape

    grapeape Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, your wrong.

    What you posted is in how the electors are chosen, not on how they have to vote ;)

    We have ALWAYS had public elections, and each state DID decide who the electors would vote for. The Supreme Court is now deciding if states have the right to govern how they vote
     
  16. Cubed

    Cubed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thanks for that info. Much appreciated.
     
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  17. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Dems cheer when a rogue EC voter in a red state votes for a Democrat. But they’ll squeal when a rogue EC voter from NY or CA votes for a Republican.
     
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  18. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Any state that split their EC votes would become completely irrelevant.
     
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  19. grapeape

    grapeape Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No. I squeal because if the SCOTUS actually allows the EC appointed electors autonomy over their vote, we literally have 538 individuals who decide on the executive branch of the United States.

    Do you honestly think that that is a good system ?
     
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  20. BaghdadBob

    BaghdadBob Well-Known Member

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    The Supremes will rule that electors are bound by their respective state laws.
     
  21. Yulee

    Yulee Well-Known Member

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    Which has never happened.
     
  22. smalltime

    smalltime Active Member

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    I'm callin' bullschtick on that one^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     
  23. guavaball

    guavaball Well-Known Member

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    Heck they got gay marriage and imminent domain through without a shred of evidence in the Constitution for either.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
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  24. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, I don’t think having 538 people choose our president is a good thing. They can’t be allowed to vote for whoever they want to. This may be the first issue where I agree with you.
     
  25. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

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    Feel free to show me where in the Constitution it says that the Electors are beholden to what their State legislatures say. :shrug: Or are you contesting that The People were never meant to vote for the President? If that is the case then feel free to show me where in Article 2 does it state that it is The People that vote for the President like it does for the HoR in Article 1.
     

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