Supreme Court to decide whether EC voters have a right to differ from state popular vote

Discussion in 'Law & Justice' started by US Conservative, Jan 17, 2020.

  1. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    I think the easy solution is to fix the points. Every State is worth 1 point, that scales the vote to even for everybody. He or she who wins the most States becomes President. Simple, plain cut and dry.
     
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  2. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yeah, simple, but I don't think that is going to happen... But credit for thinking outside the box...

    Why don't we just go with a coin toss and save the effort of setting up polling places and people driving out in bad weather...

    2 out of 3?

    3 out of 5?
     
  3. Egoboy

    Egoboy Well-Known Member Donor

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    As opposed to today, where there are 20-25 states where neither candidate focuses on because they are locks?

    I would argue the opposite. If all states did proportional state EC vote, almost all elections will be closer than they are today, so the chance to flip a 5/5 state to a 6/4 state could be huge.

    Proportional state vote would make deciding where candidates campaign even more of a nightmare... and maybe discourage some of it, which some might see as a good thing overall...
     
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  4. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    For every elector in Texas who decides to switch their vote to the Democrat, there will be an elector in California who switches his/her vote to the Republican.

    That would be chaos. It would give the electors an extreme amount of power. The election would be decided by the opinions of just 538 people.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2020
  5. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    What is done in the event of a tie vote?
     
  6. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    In the event of a tie, maybe we should have one of the candidates become President, and the other becomes VP. The idea of mixed tickets has never been seen, but arguably we could use that right now. Not a quote unquote "team of rivals", but a "team of brothers" is needed to unify the country.
     
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  7. bx4

    bx4 Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Electors should be bound to vote as per the rules of the state they come from.

    I’m surprised that US Conservative thinks that states should not be able to bind electors.

    My post was mostly about pointing out that it would not be unconstitutional for a state to do something other than the “winner takes all” approach that most states currently use.
     
  8. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They used to have the winner become President and the first-runner up become Vice President. They stopped doing that with the 12th Amendment in 1804 after a contentious election between Thomas Jefferson and Aaron Burr. That was the same election where the "Hamilton Electors" (faithless electors) ended up swaying the outcome to Jefferson.

    We don't need to recreate all the thinking that the Founders did for us to put together a functioning Representative Republic (not a Democracy). The system works just fine as is, and is certainly better than any alternative system of government in the world.

    The Supreme Court should make the call that the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact is unconstitutional, and leave the rest alone (open to the digression of the state legislatures).
     
    US Conservative likes this.
  9. Labouroflove

    Labouroflove Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Dual?

    [​IMG]

    Thunderdome?

    [​IMG]

    Colosseum?

    [​IMG]

    Jousting?

    [​IMG]
     
  10. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree with US Conservative. Half the country was pushing a campaign in favor of faithless electors to stop Trump, which was ineffective. If AOC were to become the frontrunner for POTUS when she's old enough with Ilhan Omar as VP, then a lot of conservatives will be advertising and praying for faithless electors to stop her from taking the Executive Office.

    People only think about "today", but change opinions when the other party is the subject.
     
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  11. bx4

    bx4 Well-Known Member

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    So you would be happy for states NOT to be able to bind electors?
    You realise that could result in Trump winning the EC, but faithless electors switching to Biden mean that Biden gets into the Oval Office?
    And that when your nightmare of AOC winning happens, there are no faithless electors and she goes to the WH anyway?

    That would make a mockery of presidential elections. Western democracies are based on the premise that the outcomes of elections are respected. I am generally shocked that anyone - particularly self-professed conservatives - argue in favor of election results being ignored.
     
  12. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why? The Founders installed the Electoral College as a buffer between the (potentially ignorant, mob rule) voters and the Executive Office.

    I agree that the Founders left electors with free will in order to prevent a complete tyrant from becoming President.

    While I do disagree with all these Liberal Hollywood types (below) who tried to have electors vote against Trump, the potential for America to need them to make "a better decision" some day in the future does exist.

    Again, though, I believe today that it is highly unlikely that the electoral college would ever "rebel" to such an extent that the majority would vote against their promise to vote for the candidate chosen by the voters. That candidate would have to be so extremely egregious that even the dumbest voter would hopefully recognize it and not vote for them.

     
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  13. clovisIII

    clovisIII Well-Known Member

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    :eyepopping::eyepopping::eyepopping:
    Are you kidding me? If Texas decided to split it's EC vote you can bet your bottom dollar that any democratic candidate would rush down there to collect those 10-15 EC votes that would be up for grabs. As the system exists today dems are weary of campaigning in a state that they are pretty much sure will yield exactly 0 EC votes. The inverse would obviously be true for Republicans and NY.
    The OP is not about EC vote splitting however. That is another matter.
    Note that one of the only two states that does split it's vote, Maine, got a lot of last minute campaigning from Trump, obviously that 1 extra Extra EC vote did seem crucial to the Trump campaign
     
  14. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    quote the specific portion of the constitution you are referring to
     
  15. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Will be interesting. There is no requirement there be a popular vote for them the state legislature could just appoint them. The Constitution says the state legislature decides how the electors will be chosen. How far does the "how" extend? Can it include a pledge attached to it?
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2020
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  16. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Or reinforce it is up to the state legislature. If the manner in which it wants to chose the electors includes a faithful pledge then so be it.
     
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  17. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Good point.
     
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  18. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I do. Does not mean its a hasty attempt to bypass the EC.

    But alas, lefties were furious after they lost the election.
     
  19. ArchStanton

    ArchStanton Banned

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    Article 4 Section 4. Any more brain busters? NEXT
     
  20. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Well, let’s look.........
    Nope. Nothing there about sealed borders. Try again.
     
  21. Blaster3

    Blaster3 Well-Known Member

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    the issue is the pact between these states, where they decided that the upcoming election they will hold their ec's until after the final tally of the nation and then force all their electors to vote for whomever won the popular vote, even if their state was 100% for the other candidate...

    that's a huge 'screw you' to their own citizens/electorate... yep, i'll also say it's completely unconstitutional & illegal...
     
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  22. bx4

    bx4 Well-Known Member

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    Except that already happened in 2016. If there was ever a year where the electors needed to protect the public from the consequences of their decision, it was 2016.
     
  23. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The govt can not compel an individual elector to vote in a particular way.

    The way its been for hundreds of years, is the way it will remain-no lefty schemes needed.
     
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  24. ArchStanton

    ArchStanton Banned

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    If you can't understand what it means then no amount of hand-holding your liberal thinking will matter. Do you think 30 million illegal aliens are here for a ****ing picnic? The founders wouldn't put up with that ****.
     
  25. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think it depends on the state.
     

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