Avoiding a question and feigning ignorance is what is stupid. Tell me about Jahannam - and what happens to people there.
I have yet to enter the metaphysical realm of thought-images (at least not to such an extent), because that’s pretty much what the hereafter is. What else is it but the accumulation of particular thought-images?
The production of the Bible was a similar process involving additions, deletions, distortions, and mistranslations. Same motive: control the status quo, but the Koran also obsesses with degrading the competitors. Apparently it's a bit more pervasive and blatant in much of the Koran, more so as the scriptures were extended beyond the oldest sources.
Bull****. The Quran did not in any shape or form go through such a “similar process.” It is the very same text that the Prophet Muhammad recited by mouth.
Agreed! So Islam borrowed from both. Great point! Makes sense given Islam worships the same god. Although the conception of Allah and the Father is different. What we know of the birth of Islam , like Christianity is mostly tradition and not documentation . One of the earliest koran was found to contain only rules for living the proper life that pleases God. Historians are still puzzled as how Islam spread so fast after the death in 622 of their prophet . Given no known source of finances .
Nope; caliph Uthman has built the Quran from the traditions of Muhammad's speeches. He is the real author of the madness called Islam.
"Islamic origins" same as Christians, both originated from Judaism... and Judaism originated from the religions before it - the new is often built on top of the old
Balderdash. The Qur'an was memorized by many (as it is by millions today), and was transcribed thus. It wasn’t added to or subtracted from in the process of compiling all the verses into one book, and there’s no evidence whatsoever to prove otherwise. This is all just Western projection.
Yes - If you go back and read my original post - I was talking about Christianity - and then extended the conversation to Islam.
Nonsense, I’m telling it to you like it is. Once again, as far as Islam is concerned, one’s place in the afterlife is wholly dependent on one’s general state of being in the material life.
How movements form and spread is often a mystery. The conception of the God of Abraham (EL -Enlil) is different from the conception of YHWH. The conception of the God of Jesus is a different thing again. It is quite an interesting study - on which modern scholarship has shed much light. "El Shaddai" - God of the Mountain - the "Most High" - and various other epithets given to this God - "The Father" "Creator" and so on. ...Scholars are able to associate who the God was by the epithets- and/or who the God was related to - how it arose and so on. El Shaddai was also one of the Canaanite Gods. Regardless - Abe was from Ur - The Chief God of the Pantheon in Ur (1800-2000 BC) - a God that was more in the background than in Sumerian times (2100- way far back) - was Enlil - El ( El is sometimes used as the word Lord ... Lord Shaddai) the derivation of the word of course being the original El. El would have been the Chief God to Terah - Abe's father - a dude who made idols for a living. These are the stories on which Abe was raised. Now according to the Bible - Abe comes some 300 years after the flood. - dating the flood to 2100-2300 (which makes the story all the more preposterous but that is another story) Now remember that Noah and Shem are still alive - and in fact all the people surrounding Abe are rather close relatives - Separated at most by 300 years - when the boat landed - they all have a shared history - shared customs - and very similar religious ideas. Ideas such as what ? - Well - They all know that Noah is their great great ..... grandfather - as is Shem one step removed. Now Shem's kid was Arphaxad - this would be the first generation not to have been born prior to the flood .. not too many people around. So lets start with Shalah's kid Eber. So to Eber - Arphaxad is grandpa - and Shem is Great Grandpa - and Noah is Great Great Grandpa - all are still alive and there are very few people ... so a very close nit community. Safe to say that the beliefs of Eber were the beliefs of Noah .. in fact does not pass the giggle test to think otherwise. Now Eber's great grandchild .. who sat on his knee and was told by Eber the stories of old - his relationship to Noah and Shem - and all the others who all still happen to be alive - was Peleg Reu Serug There are more people now - but they all have this same story back to Shem - when you meet someone you do not know - eventually in conversation - how you are related comes up. You can all trace your lineage back to Shem - and have sat on the knee of great gradpa - and heard the stories of Old. They must have had festivals in honor of Noah and Shem - perhaps on their respective Birthdays... not sure how they fit that many candles on the cake .. but both are still alive .. living Gods at this point one would think. (this would be a good Ancient Alien theorists would suggest - segway - but I digress) Just trying to get picture of the world in which Abe lived - if we take the Bible liberally. I think we can say the above with fair confidence with respect to Serug's world - but what about Abe ? Well - one thing we know - is that the fellow who was Abe's great grandfather - the one who's knee Abe sat on - and heard the stories of old .. was Sarug. (Nahor Terah Abe) There are more people - many more - but everyone you meet still knows their lineage back to Shem - or perhaps some of the other sons at this point - but Sumeria is the land of Shem. The stories told to Abe by Sarug - were the same stories told to Arphaxad by Shem - same God (s) - And that is what Abraham would have believed - at least when he was young. Now of we go to known history of this time - 1800-2000 BC - everyone believes in a Pantheon - as do the people in 2300 BC - latest date of the flood.. and throughout this period. So all these people - with lineage back to Noah - believe in a divine Pantheon .. with El at the top. "the most high" "the Father" the "Creator" and so on. Many references to El and the divine Council were whitewashed out of the Bible over time - some however still remain ... such as Psalm 82 - where El is presiding over a Divine council - to which YHWH is addressing his comments.. - direct to you from the Journal of Hebrew Scriptures http://www.jhsonline.org/Articles/article_144.pdf or Deut 32:8 and Deut 32:43 http://www.thedivinecouncil.com/DT32BibSac.pdf The first passage talks about how YHWH is one of El's many sons - and the land is divided into portions among the son's of El (Ugaritic Texts cites 70) The land and its people apportioned to YHWH are the sons of Israel. The next verse is even more interesting - 3 different verses from 3 different Bibles are compared 2 from before the common era and the Masoretic Text (MT) 700-900AD - posted side by side on Page 7. LXX and 4DeutQ are the older texts .. both these passages retain reference to other divinities. Have a look - I will leave it there - you can see how this has been whitewashed out of the Bible - Go to a modern bible and even more changes have been made... nothing left of the original text. In Summary - the conception of God(s) back in Abe's time - and Israelite's that came later - was of a divine pantheon. While this was not strict monotheism - it is not polytheism either .. It is belief in other God's - but you are only supposed to worship one. The high God of Noah was El - and that was the High God of Abe - the God he chose to worship.
Lots of info there that one would not be aware of without study...that you seem to have done. Good job! You must really be interested in this. My interests mostly stopped when I discovered the flood myth was borrowed from the older Sumerian myth that is too similar to ignore And of course our beautiful rainbows would not exist if god had not flooded the earth killing off man and animals except for what man was able to save in a big boat! For as a sign of promise from god he created the reoccurring rainbow to remind man of His promise . So the next time god has a temper tantrum we wont be drowned but roasted on the spit. Yep he is gonna burn our sinful arses up! We know from the OT the smell of burning meat pleases the god of the jews so He will be besides Himself when billions of us roast and fry and that smell wafts its way to heaven! I think I would prefer the drowning! Far less pain I would think.
No you did not- I asked you to give citations from the Qu'ran on a specific topic - and you avoided this task. Go - and be happy.
I would do that if I was a Christian. http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_teachings_of_jesus/on_giving/mt05_41.html four pictures. Ask the Pope, he is supposed to be a Christian.
Please do not defame Jesus by referring to the head of the church of the anti-christ - as a Christian.
and that is when the conversation gets really interesting. Consider what would offend you the most - would you be God. 1) "I hate You God" 2) *******n it 3) I don't believe you exist 4) Pretending to speak for God - putting words in God's mouth - and please qualify your answer.
Remember the story about Elisha and the bears? 2 Kings 2:24 (CEV) = Elisha turned around and stared at the boys. Then he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Right away two bears ran out of the woods and ripped to pieces forty-two of the boys. That story illustrates Exodus 22:28 (TLB) = “You shall not blaspheme God, nor curse government officials—your judges and your rulers." Isn't the Pope supposed to represent the Jesus character? So , when you swear at the Pope you are swearing at Jesus and the bears will eat you. Isn't that nice?
You veered off somewhat - and did not answer the question directly - and you are referring only to the God YHWH in your example - which could be covered by 4 in any case. If YOU were God .... what would piss you off. My suggestion is that someone accusing you of things you did not do would be high on the list - or claiming "God says this" - when you said no such thing or "God thinks this" when you think no such thing. In this case - we are talking Jesus - the Logos = emissary between man and God - the one who speaks God's word directly through the Holy Spirit. The Popes declared themselves "Pontifex Maximus" = the one who speaks for God = usurping the position of Jesus. 2) These popes then went out and orchestrated mass murder on the basis of these claims - acting against the teachings of Jesus in almost every way imaginable - the antithesis to Jesus - the anti- Christ.
