Impeachment does NOT require a crime

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by HereWeGoAgain, Jan 20, 2020.

  1. Esperance

    Esperance Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2017
    Messages:
    5,151
    Likes Received:
    4,379
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If you want to garnish over 66 votes in the Senate it has to be a criminal act that doesn't depend on a simple subjective opinion.

    That is exactly why the House Democrats have such a weak case. It is all based on worse case scenario assumptions while at the same time they are ignoring and/or covering for Democrat corruption.

    Yovanovitch admitted that the State Department prepped her on how to skirt the Biden/Burisma issues. That, in and of itself, has been the most compelling smoking gun in the whole House inquiry...but totally ignored by the Dems. I repeat, totally ignored by the Dems !
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
    RodB and ToddWB like this.
  2. Esperance

    Esperance Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2017
    Messages:
    5,151
    Likes Received:
    4,379
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Or.... President Trump asked for help with Crowdstrike and complied with the US-Ukraine Treaty after hearing a Biden interview that provided, "probable cause," to investigate a shakedown.
    Giuliani was establishing additional, "probable cause," prior to Joe even announcing his candidacy. Why? Because Ukraine interfered in the 2016 election.
    And how about the money laundering that went through Latvia and Cyprus from money kicked back from the Koch-Glitsch deal involving Putin?
     
    RodB and ToddWB like this.
  3. Esperance

    Esperance Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2017
    Messages:
    5,151
    Likes Received:
    4,379
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Trump was Impeached simply because the Democrats had more votes. Nothing valid in the Articles to provide any evidence of wrongdoing. Nothing !!
     
    ToddWB likes this.
  4. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,626
    Likes Received:
    63,060
    Trophy Points:
    113
    the House proved enough for Impeachment and Trump was impeached

    not the Senate needs to prove enough for removal

    two separate processes, will the Senate have a fair trial or will they do Trump a favor?
     
  5. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,626
    Likes Received:
    63,060
    Trophy Points:
    113
    can't help if you believe the cult of Trump, Nunes appears to have dealings with Ukraine too, we need to get to the bottom of that
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
  6. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,626
    Likes Received:
    63,060
    Trophy Points:
    113
    the FBI and the DOJ can do the investigating of political rivals, the President doesn't get to ask foreign governments to do it or refuse to give them money or interviews, that is an abuse of power
     
  7. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,626
    Likes Received:
    63,060
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Trump was impeached because he was stupid and tried to bribe a foreign government into announcing an investigation into his political rival, Trump has no one to blame but himself
     
  8. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 14, 2017
    Messages:
    2,814
    Likes Received:
    3,091
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Yep, doesn't require a crime at all - all it requires is a deranged partisan majority in the House. Conviction will be another matter though.
     
    ToddWB likes this.
  9. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,488
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Two ridiculous articles with zero proof. A partisan crap show in the House was a joke.
     
  10. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2017
    Messages:
    45,662
    Likes Received:
    26,746
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    1. Trump empowered Giuliani to employ the help of various members of the US diplomatic contingent to Ukraine, and some who were not part of that contingent, to put pressure on Ukraine to announce an investigation in to Joe Biden. A campaign that began in the spring of 2019. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50492438
    2. Leverage was used, at Trump's direction, as a means to get Ukraine to acquiesce to Trump's requests in the form of the withholding of military aid authorized by Congress.
    "Clear direction from POTUS to continue hold."
    https://www.justsecurity.org/67863/...ts-reveal-extent-of-pentagons-legal-concerns/
    3. Resulting from the WB complaint, a summary of the transcript of the Zelensky call was released revealing Trump speaking to Zelensky about the investigations he wanted Ukraine to announce. A transcript WH officials tried to hide from other members of the government and the public by placing it in a code level secret server typically used for keeping national security matters secret. https://apnews.com/817c0c285bc9485d88608635e0fef3e3
    4. Trump and Sondland were overheard discussing the efforts to get Ukraine to announce an investigation in to Biden.
    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/21/imp...ow-he-overheard-trump-call-with-sondland.html
    5. Officials in the admin and the Pentagon expressed concern the hold was illegal.
    https://publicintegrity.org/nationa...rried-ukraine-aid-halt-violated-spending-law/
    A GAO analysis of the laws pertaining to the hold found it was, in their opinion, illegal.
    6. Ukrainian officials asked about the aid on the day Trump called Zelensky when he said, "I need you to do us a favor though," prior to asking Ukraine to investigate Biden (and the server).
    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/20/ukr...ump-zelenskiy-call-impeachment-testimony.html
    7. Part time, acting Chief-of-Staff Mick Mulvaney publicly acknowledged the quid pro quo.
    https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/17/poli...d-pro-quo-donald-trump-ukraine-aid/index.html
    So did EU ambassador Sondland.
    Sondland acknowledges Ukraine quid pro quo, implicates Trump, Pence, Pompeo and others
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...741e3c-0b92-11ea-8397-a955cd542d00_story.html
    8. US Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch was relieved of her post by Trump as a result of a smear campaign launched against her by Giuliani because she posed on obstacle to carrying out the scheme to extort Ukraine. https://www.politico.com/news/2019/11/15/trump-yovanovitch-impeachment-070988
    Lev Parnas recently stated her removal was directed as a payoff to get a Ukrainian official to produce dirt on Biden. https://slate.com/news-and-politics...risma-biden-dirt-fire-ukraine-ambassador.html
    9. All of the 17 witnesses who testified during the House inquiry corroborate 1-8.
    10. If any of the witnesses or documentary evidence Trump has blocked as part of his obstruction of the investigation can offer a refutation of the evidence above it is his prerogative to present it.
    11. The solicitation of help in a US election from a foreign person or government is illegal.
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campai...s-illegality-of-soliciting-campaign-help-from
     
  11. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2017
    Messages:
    45,662
    Likes Received:
    26,746
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Schiff made a telling observation when he said the Repubs couldn't find a constitutional scholar to defend their position about the necessity of the commission of a crime to justify impeachment. They had to use a defense lawyer for that.............like Crazy Al.........who changed his position.
    https://www.newsweek.com/alan-dersh...not-needed-impeachment-1998-interview-1483025

    Schiff also noted the attorney Repubs brought out to make the ludicrous claim President Skidmark's crimes don't rise to the level of being impeachable, Jonathan Turley, does not agree he can't be impeached for abuse of power cuz............he's a constitutional scholar and knows that argument is absurd.
     
  12. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    22,789
    Likes Received:
    11,805
    Trophy Points:
    113
    On its best day, politics is a really dirty business.
     
  13. James California

    James California Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2019
    Messages:
    11,335
    Likes Received:
    11,470
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    ~ Sadly I think everyone would agree on this .
     
    Eleuthera, ToddWB and jay runner like this.
  14. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2015
    Messages:
    22,450
    Likes Received:
    11,181
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    There is not a single chance in all of hell that the Dems would accept any witness or document that would clear Trump's name. They would charge such witnesses with perjury.
     
    ToddWB likes this.
  15. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2015
    Messages:
    22,450
    Likes Received:
    11,181
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Please direct me to where in the Constitution or anywhere else that states congress can demand or subpoena anything they want from the president of executive branch.
     
    Tim15856 and ToddWB like this.
  16. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    Messages:
    16,455
    Likes Received:
    13,010
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well, I WAS going to lay out a case but I see it would be a wasted effort. You've already determined that your opinion is the only one that is right and anyone else is "lying". Including "any lawyer"...which means that you're going to ignore even those that have studied the law for years or decades more than you have in your armchair.
     
    Crownline, Tim15856 and ToddWB like this.
  17. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2015
    Messages:
    22,450
    Likes Received:
    11,181
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The House did not prove diddlysquat.
     
    Tim15856 and ToddWB like this.
  18. Nemesis

    Nemesis Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2012
    Messages:
    16,586
    Likes Received:
    9,097
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes, they tried to prove diddlysquat, but were only able to establish abuse of office and obstruction of Congress. This is a shame, because Bonespurs would be the first president impeached for diddlysquat.
     
  19. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2015
    Messages:
    22,450
    Likes Received:
    11,181
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Blah, blah, blah. Straight out of the old and tattered Dem playbook. More blah, blah, blah and a little yadda yadda yadda.
     
    Tim15856 and ToddWB like this.
  20. Nemesis

    Nemesis Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2012
    Messages:
    16,586
    Likes Received:
    9,097
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Name such a witness.
     
  21. Nemesis

    Nemesis Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2012
    Messages:
    16,586
    Likes Received:
    9,097
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This reads like the initial WH "brief" in the Senate impeachment trial.
     
  22. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2015
    Messages:
    22,450
    Likes Received:
    11,181
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    There is no such thing in any law as obstruction of congress by the executive branch.
     
    ToddWB likes this.
  23. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2015
    Messages:
    22,450
    Likes Received:
    11,181
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Probably most if not all of the witnesses Schumer and the House Dems are demanding.
     
  24. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2015
    Messages:
    22,450
    Likes Received:
    11,181
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Yeah, the WH statements were also accurate.
     
    roorooroo likes this.
  25. Nemesis

    Nemesis Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2012
    Messages:
    16,586
    Likes Received:
    9,097
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Then why did the WH instruct those witnesses not to appear?
     

Share This Page