Educated vs "Non-Educated"

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Kal'Stang, Dec 22, 2019.

  1. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Only the management of the program, not the benefits.
    Wrong. For instance, farmer cooperatives are collectives.
    Thanks to people like you?
     
    557 likes this.
  2. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    No, I'm afraid you just don't "get it."
     
  3. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Check an American dictionary? I might grant you that there are a lot of Americans who, like you, think redistributing income is socialism, but the essential element of all socialism is collective production.
    Can you bring yourself to differentiate between programs that spend money for people (public schools, police protection) and those that transfer money to people they can spend as they see fit?
     
  4. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Give the BS a rest.
     
  5. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Having experience on both sides of the equation, I don’t think wealth gives one more freedom to make choices. Lack of wealth takes some options off the table. Wealth takes a different set of options off the table. I see your point though. I used to believe as you on the wealth issue even if I should have known better.

    I grew up DIRT poor. By the time I graduated high school I’d prospected over one of the richest deposits of gold in my state of residence, worked in four different industries, traveled to Russia and Ukraine, Canada including Newfoundland Island, and Finland. I’d been in about 40 states, the White House, and Lenin’s tomb. I had been places underground no human had ever been before and a couple places nobody had been to since the 1600’s. I was comfortable socially with families poorer than I was and with families in the 1% wealth bracket. As a teenager (freshman and sophomore high school years) I was at a church sponsored function on average 4 times a week.

    My point in sharing this is twofold. First, being poor is a poor excuse for isolation. Second, parenting is invaluable. Education was my parents’ priority. And I got educated formally and informally. I agree with you income is huge in predicting educational outcomes, but parenting can trump income.

    Current research seems to point to income as being the driver of outcomes, but I wonder if the traits that make parents successful earners also make them good parents. That seems logical. Any of you experts have any data to refute that opinion ?
     
  6. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    Correct.
     
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  7. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    “Collective production” just happens to be the foundation of socialism. Feel free. Why is there such a reluctance to use dictionaries ? Glossaries and dictionaries. There are no laws, regulations or learning for that matter without unified term definitions. I Like math and think of it as a universal language. It drives every math and science person I’ve met crazy thinking they can’t be unified in the plethora of terms they use. Unthinkable if you live in a world where problem solving is important.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
  8. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    I’m mostly in agreement with you on this subject. I would point out one thing on farmer cooperatives. There are two types. The one common in the US is a supply type. I would not consider it collectivized. It’s basically no more than increasing bargaining power by buying inputs cooperatively. They are member owned and profits (if any, by design profits should be minimal) are shared, but there is no real collective production.

    The second type (production cooperative) is more common outside the US. It does include collective production where land, labor, machinery and profits are shared.

    That said, in the past I’ve had PF members tell me I’m definitely a socialist for belonging to a supply type farmer’s coop. :) I wasn’t offended, as I have no beef with “voluntary socialism”.
     
  9. DPeters

    DPeters Newly Registered

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    I agree
     
  10. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Are we cooperatives when we let our farmers loose their soybean contracts with China by increasing tariffs on a free market , then reward them with government payouts to keep them afloat ?
    Maybe if we’d thought about being cooperatives a little earlier, they wouldn’t be in such a mess.
     
  11. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Let’s see, Yang gang wants to be collecting money from one segment, then redistributing it to the masses to equalize everyone’s income is not socialism....? China must be a capitalist country too then. We know the sixth biggest economy in the world is, California. They collect taxes and ship them off to red states to equalize the economy among states by increasing Govt programs that don’t allow free spending in the US. Dang California !
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
  12. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    All payments to farmers should cease. They should not exist with or without tariff. But they won’t because you guys want your food subsidized. The tariffs that resulted in the recent trade deal were a necessary tool used to correct the trade imbalance with China. Farmers are quite pleased with the outcome and will benefit for many years to come. Again, government payments are certainly regrettable. I’ll bet you didn’t know every Democratic Senator voted for the current farm bill, with 13 Republicans voting against. Are you upset with the Democrats who voted for the farm bill that gives farmers $428 billion over five years? Bet you didn’t even consider that...
     
  13. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    No, because it had to be done to protect farmers from the imbecile Trump the traitor.
    Farmers are not happy with losing the contracts with China. It was never about adding tariffs with China, it was about adding tariffs correctly. That meant engaging our allies v China, in increased trade if soybeans reduction orders from China occurred. The usual, go it alone didn’t work for the farmers. As usual, the gop is inept at the economy and begged for dem votes to bail out farmers. Like the last recession, you blame democrats for trying to clean up messes conservatives create......clean it up with guess what, more socialism. The gop is hysterically hypocritical. But, conservatives love corporate socialism....to the determent of farmers and all middle class.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
  14. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    The soybean issue hinged on China’s problems with swine populations. Something else you don’t know anything about. Historically most farm support has been necessary because of government intervention in Ag markets and lousy trade policy such as Trump is remedying now. You just don’t like it because it’s Trump this time.

    Again, the Farm Bill, corporate socialism defined by you, was supported by all Democrats in the Senate. But it’s conservatives fault? Are Democratic Senators conservatives in your opinion?
     
  15. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    Both sides of the political isles are into corporate welfare for their fascist nation of living wealthy buy running a nation on debt fueled economic activity...
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
  16. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Sure it did. Like the timing was real bad, just in time for the tariffs. Like, I’d feel that way too if Fix News was my only source.
    Its not new,, the gop are corporate lackies.
     
  17. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    The standards are extremely high now and might drop to very high.
    Good grief. Reinsurance is before losses. What are you talking about?
    Personal experience with a school that did it right.
    Okay. Don't explain yourself.
    The initial distribution in paychecks that are smaller than they might be if, for example, workers weren't faced with right-to-work laws.
    What do you want? If you read right-to-work laws you can see what's going on?
    I've been working with computers since the 1960s when I scheduled computer runs on IBM 360s for Northrop Corporation. I taught computer studies and programming to high school students and adults.

    Now, that said ... I realize capital is getting, increasingly, a better return than labor. I think the system is making things worse for labor.
     
  18. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    I believe what I do because I make a living growing and marketing soybeans. It’s my business to understand it. I’ve never been a consumer of Fox News. I use MSNBC’s website to keep up with the commodity markets. Trump's trade deal is very good for agriculture and will likely get even better.

    Any comment yet on Democratic support for the Farm Bill?
     
  19. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
  20. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Then you need to do more reading.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...r-latest-trump-china-soybeans-farmers-tariffs
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
  21. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Like I said, give it a whirl. It’s your life your gambling with. :)

    Reinsurance is supposed to be before loss. If you are “reinsuring” pre existing conditions it’s not before loss. That’s my point.

    So you were able to overcome the disadvantage of poor home life? How did you verify this? I would be interested in the details of how this was accomplished. Perfect thread to expound on this.

    I thought it was self explanatory. All non monetary benefits cost employers money. As we add health insurance, more vacation time, more maternity leave, gym memberships, child care, tuition reimbursement, dental/vision/life insurance, and relocation assistance non monetary compensation necessarily remains relatively flat. I thought this was common knowledge. To be fair, some analysis includes benefits but many times when wage growth is discussed, non monetary compensation is not included.

    Never found anything about not being able to quit a job etc. I don’t know what someone who believes in the rights of individuals would dislike about such laws. Mostly upside with the only downside being slightly less worker compensation under right to work. But I’ll trade that for manufacturing growth and retention any day.

    Well, we could go back to being an agrarian society or something. If we want to live like kings in cities there are going to be trade offs. Especially in a global economy.
     
  22. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Farm Bills are corporate welfare by your definition. They were conceived by, wait for it.....a Democrat, FDR. You have been voting to continue the bailouts since 1933. Why are you worked up about it now that Trump is President? He’s just following in the footsteps of the great FDR. :)

    What do you mean farmers don’t share my optimism? Do you know what you call a soybean producer? A farmer. I’m a farmer and I’m optimistic as are my neighbors and agriculturally involved friends and acquaintances around the country. I thought you didn’t like “fix news”? Short term memory loss?

    No sane person expected soybean prices to go to $15/bu on the board the day an agreement was signed. We still operate under the forces of supply and demand.
     
  23. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    And, I agree with bailing them out to cover up the bogus tariff issues. That’s what liberals do, clean up the messes that the gop creates
     
  24. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    Serious people who aren’t politically motivated like Bloomberg’s outfit never expected farmers to get rich 30 minutes after a deal. Markets are for the most part “intelligent” and have things priced into the market ahead of actual events like signing an agreement. As I already stated, supply and demand are king. This trade deal is for long term gain, not a flash in the pan market swing.

    And China will have to get their swine industry figured out before demand can work its magic.

    If I got my marketing knowledge and strategy from Bloomberg I would have gone bankrupt when beans were $16-$17/bu. Writers for news outlets are not experts on commodity markets or marketing. If they were they would sit home and trade the board and be rich instead of writing copy for a living.
     
  25. 557

    557 Well-Known Member

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    But Democrats created it. It’s their idea.
     

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