Trump and religious liberty -- Militant atheists have met their match with our president

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by XXJefferson#51, Jan 23, 2020.

  1. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It has worked out really well. An attempted coup that would bring most countries to their knees is now being thwarted. The "socialist hordes" are being exposed and the fight is on.

    Have you ever wondered why the word "less" is in "godless"? Because when you feed your ego and flesh you get "less".
     
  2. TedintheShed

    TedintheShed Banned

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    What coup are you ranting on about?

    Physics states differently. If I feed my flesh more, I increase in mass if caloric input is more than than output.

    None the less, religion and government has many things in common, including the penchant of the ruling class to lie to the indoctrinated hordes.

    Both are cults to me.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2020
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  3. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    Is that supposed to be a problem?
    If the majority of your constituents agree with your views, how is it infliction?
    Actually it doesn't protect any beliefs. All it can possibly protect, and that only indirectly, is actions - which, when they spring from certain beliefs which may be called religious, are protected by law only to the detriment of liberty in general.
    As if you had a clue about that.
    It isn't, obviously, since gravity is a fact observable by anyone; but even if you mean a specific theory like Newton's or Einstein's, both are experimentally testable whereas anthropic macroevolution is not.
    It's more intelligent to question whether that correlation implies universal common descent any more than the fact that all posts on this board are written in English implies they all have the same author.
    No, the reality is that many leftists fraudulently profess to be Christians.
    Oh sure, they were all about state ownership of the means of production and abolition of the family, right?
    Sure, the four references to the Deity could hardly have been anything but happenstance in a document whose signatories risked the ultimate retribution from the British Crown, right?
    A better question is how the hell you figure you have a right to buy a beer before 1pm on Sunday.
    So have you just never bothered to look at the DoI, or is it a reading comprehension issue?
     
  4. Truly Enlightened

    Truly Enlightened Active Member

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    Whenever you spend an inordinate amount of time with yourself, you are able to create any reality you want. You can validate any reality, or fantasy you want. If you want others to believe that an apple exist on a table. and that you are the only one who can see it, then you need to prove it. This is where the problem begins. You can either deflect, insult, distract, misrepresent, or defend. Unless you can prove your claims objectively, anything out of your mouth is just an unsupported self-serving opinion. The apple does not exist, just because you say so. The apple exist in spite of your say so. No man is the truth unto himself.

    Reading expands our knowledge(true or false), our imagination(good or bad), and creates only a zero-dimensional mental representation of what we read. The true test of truth, is moving from a subjective perspective to an objective perspective. This requires science, logic, and facts. You can believe that you can walk on water, float in the air, live forever, or that your prayers will be answered. But, until others also believe it, it is not truth. It doesn't matter what Billions of people believe is truth or real, it only matters what one person, in those billions can prove is truth and real. Truth is not based on a consensus of beliefs. Millions believe that aliens and ghosts exist, therefore it must be true, right? What I don't like, is how so many people can ignore the truth, in spite of the evidence. One single proof is worth an infinite number of beliefs. I have many beliefs(universal subjectivity), but I never make truth-claims, based on my beliefs.

    You clearly do not understand what socialism is, other than "it is bad". I like what Bernie says about the Democratic Socialistic country we have lived in, for the past 85 years.

    “What democratic socialism essentially means to me is completing the vision that Franklin Delano Roosevelt started some 85 years ago, and that is to go forward in the wealthiest country in the history of the world and guarantee a decent economic standard of living in life for all of our people,” he said. “And to do that, obviously we have to combat oligarchy, plutocrats, and the incredibly unfair and unequal distribution of wealth and income, and to take on the incredible political power that the 1 percent have.”.

    You are just another product of more Government disinformation. Without the features of socialism, there would be no government libraries and museums, Veterans benefits, Social Securities, Medicare, Disability benefits, Free Education and a Public Schools system, no Minimum wage or maximum hours of work, no Food Stamps(SNAP, WIC), Housing Assistance, no more Supplemental Security Income(SSI), no legalized abortion, no Old Age Pensions, no Firemen or Policemen, and Public Utilities. In short, Democratic Socialists want to protect, strengthen, and expand social services and the public good. Democratic Socialists(Progressives) are people who are not afraid of the word "socialism", and are just looking for a fighter who will put their needs ahead of corporate profits and never back down. I am aware that since the government does not actually own, control, or run all of these programs(State-run), that this is not true-socialism, and just a national service provided for the public good. But sometimes reality lays beyond just the definition. They are all still a feature of Socialism.

    I personally think you should spend LESS time reading, and MORE time experiencing and listening. Also, it is an evolutionary drive in all humans, to be attracted to all things that will cause us pain, or give us pleasure. It is only our social feed-back loops, and how our genes are expressed, that determine our level of susceptibility to these things. Just because you don't act on your desires, does not mean you don't have them. Right? There is also NO relationship between the "less" in 'godless", and ego(less) and flesh(less). I guess it is just easier to simply assert, or imply that there is. Right?
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2020
  5. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You probably discount the difference between "spirit and flesh" as you seem to be a very fleshy persona. All you seem to relate to is the purely physical. I can't help you there.

    Of course I am ranting about the godless coup attempt by the godless establishment in an attempt to overturn our duly elected President. It should be over very shortly.
    [QU
     
  6. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Socialism is the opiate for the collective and slavery for the individual. It is the gateway drug to Marxism and the doom of a godless society.
     
  7. TedintheShed

    TedintheShed Banned

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    Ahh. You actually believe in a spirit. I don't. There is no proof they exist.


    Oh, the impeachment? That's no coup. That's your political process (more evidence of its utter failure), the one that you hold dear like a religion.
     
  8. ImNotOliver

    ImNotOliver Well-Known Member

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    I’m not so sure your claims reflect reality. The Pacific Northwest is the least religious part of the country, yet its crime rate is significantly lower than in the South, where religiosity is quite high.

    Atheists tend to be greatly underrepresented in US prisons.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2020
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  9. ImNotOliver

    ImNotOliver Well-Known Member

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    For the couple of hundred years before the US Europe was racked by almost constant war, mostly along religious lines, with each principality or kingdom having its own sect. It is something the founders wanted to avoid.

    Part of the liberal ideas that grew out of the Enlightenment was that men should not be burdened by clergy or monarchs. History told them that religions and monarchs worked in tandem to suppress the people.
     
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  10. ImNotOliver

    ImNotOliver Well-Known Member

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    Jefferson went to William and Mary, I think, and was a lawyer.

    I went to a Benedictine school. I don’t think that what I learned was all that much different from what students learned in public schools.
     
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  11. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    That’s true, but in a secular population where religion is not practiced by the majority, it is infliction.
     
  12. Truly Enlightened

    Truly Enlightened Active Member

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    It IS a problem for anyone who believes that "under God...", is no different than, "under Kermit the Frog", or the name of any of the thousands of other religious deities to choose from. Prove that God exists, or that we are a Christian Nation, not a nation of mostly Christians? What's next for religious zealots and fundamentalists? Abolishing all secular charities, hospitals, public schools, and humanitarian groups and organizations? Why can't religious zealots revel privately, in their own self-deluded elitism, exclusivity, and superiority? Why the need for this insidious encroachment of religious superstitions into my life? If you want to serve the indoctrinated product of your own imagination, or want to feel guilty for an imaginary sin, or even think that it is possible that you can live forever, then keep it to yourself. Your religious beliefs are just as ridiculous, as any of the other religious God fantasies, and fairy tales, written for children and the gullible as entertainment.

    Because truth is not based on, or dependent on, a consensus of a majority view. It is based only on a consensus of facts and evidence. You are trying to inflict upon my life, your own unsupported irrational beliefs and views. People can believe in anything they want. The number of how many people can believe in anything, without evidence, is irrelevant. The more evidence you have, the less reason you need to believe. Do you believe you can drive your car, or do you know that you can drive your car? Critical thinkers want to know, not believe.

    It IS, obviously. The Quantum Theory is the most exact, and tested, of all Theories. Yet, we can't observe anything but the results indirectly. Can you observe Gravity? Or are you observing the EFFECTS of Gravity? Can you observe the movements of the continents? By your sense of warped logic, Black holes, Dark matter and Dark energy, Quantum waves, Gravitons, electrons, the Higgs particle, and all the fundamental forces don't exist. This of course, is insane logic. Observation, is just one of the tools used in the scientific method of inquiry. Creationist, know that it takes millions of years for one species to change into another species. So they exploit this to save face. They simply deny or ignore the mountain of facts, data, and the convergence of evidence from other related scientific disciplines. Their logic is, since we can't actually SEE one species change into another, then the change just never happen. Bugger the fact that the changes are accumulative and microscopic. Therefore, this is proof that "God did it". Any rational person would at best, attribute anthropic macroevolution, as only a series of anthropic fine-tuning, and trial and error. Otherwise, why have 99.999% of all species, that have ever existed on this planet, are now extinct? Hence, we represent the 0.0001% of only those that have survived. Certainly, NOT the work of any Intelligent Designer. This is the same insanity, that if I cover my eyes, and can't see the world, then the world obviously would no longer exist.

    All scientist know, that ALL Theories have been tested thoroughly, and that their explanations are consistent. The Theories of Motion and Relativity, have also been tested and observed. Evolution, among the overwhelming majority of scientist, IS A FACT.

    No, the more intelligent question to ask, is what makes us anatomically, physiologically, morphologically, genetically, and behaviourally, similar to other primates, instead of reptiles or other groups? Instead of having the 24 pairs of chromosomes that apes have, humans have 23 pairs. However, we would have the same number if we combined two of their chromosomes, to make just one chromosome. This is what we expected to see, and in fact, what we do see. Only through evolution could the combining of these two chromosomes be possible. Or, do you think humans existed before apes? What is your scientific explanation for Biogenesis, and the diversity of life? What is the relationship between our environment, and our evolution? "God did it all"?

    That would be a stupid question, not a better question. Why is it illegal to buy beer on Sunday before 1pm? Why on Sunday period, and not on any of the other days of the week? Is Sunday really the 7th day of the week? Or is it the 1st? Either we are allowed to buy beer, or we are not allowed to buy beer? The answer is, that the Government is just pandering to placate religious concerns. Religious leaders want everyone to go to church on Sunday, and NOT buy beer before 1pm. This is a clear imposition on my freedom of liberty(choice) and happiness. Why should my right to by beer on Sunday before 1pm, be restricted? Especially, because of someone else's religious beliefs? The real question is, why would anyone want to worship an immoral, vindictive, genocidal, jealous, megalomaniacal, sky daddy, on ANY day of the week? That is, unless you can prove that any God(s) even exists? I didn't think so. Can you not even see the slippery slope, and precedence, that this action can lead to?

    If this level of comprehension, represents your understanding of logic, science, and reality, then you should be the last person trying to feign intellectual sarcasm towards others



     
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  13. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A completely "partisan" effort is a coup.
     
  14. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Aside from the Bible, the book most of the Pilgrims brought to this country was "Foxes Book of Martyrs". You see, that book is the story of how government officials monopolized and used religious pretexts, to gain control over and execute "real people of faith". That is precisely why they came to our shores, to separate government from their faith. Precisely why we today have a Bible that people can read for themselves without going thru the filter of government or a Pope. (Though many won't take that responsibility and rely on a T.V. magnet to form their opinions.)
     
  15. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Clergy, monarchs and religion has to do with the collective. The collective has to do with gaining "power" which is the effort of "government". Pure faith in the Kingdom of God has the purpose of effecting the "individual" and transforming the collective. Socialism/Marxism, on the other hand just uses the collective to gain power much as the clergy and monarchs did in pre America Europe.
     
  16. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Public Schools are void of Civics and History. Shortly after entry into the 20th Century, it began to be taught the U.S. is a Democracy which is a fallacy. We are a "representative Republic". The emphasis on "Democracy was induced to lead us int o "Social Democracy" aka Marxist lite. Public Schools now tend to emphasize "what to think" instead of "how to think".
     
  17. Truly Enlightened

    Truly Enlightened Active Member

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    As I have told you before, you are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts. What Karl Marks actually said, in its proper context was;

    "The foundation of irreligious criticism is: Man makes religion, religion does not make man. Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man – state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d’honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion.

    Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

    The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.".

    I have no idea where your quote came from, or who you are quoting. I think your understanding of Marxism is even worse than your understanding of Socialism. Marxism is an ideological understanding, of what is wrong with Capitalism. This "Marxism for Dummies" might help. https://reasonandmeaning.com/2015/09/01/marx-video-about-work/

    Before you continue to spew out more unfounded, and uninformed, fear-mongering religious alarmism, please do your homework. I can hear this same contrived, self-serving baseless rhetoric, from many other self-confessed religious pseudo-sophists in the subways.
     
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  18. TedintheShed

    TedintheShed Banned

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    Asked defined by dictionary.com a coup is defined as "a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government".

    The impeachment hearings are not sudden, they aren't violet and they certainly aren't illegal. Notice the term "from the government", well it is the government that is impeaching Trump.

    So no, the impeachment meets no standard to be called a coup. That is your religiousity like partisanship showing, your irrationality.

    And while I do not agree with what the Democrats are doing, I see it through rational eyes and not using hyperbole like "coup".
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2020
  19. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thank you for identifying yourself. Few have that courage. We know that Marxism has been the death of millions!
     
  20. Cari

    Cari Active Member

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    You use the word liberty but surely the word liberty includes the right to not believe in any religion too.
     
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  21. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    But your initial comment was about religious views, not religious practice;
    and surely it is clear the irreligious may share any number of views with the religious.
    Then it's a problem for the shallow of mind, which means it's not my problem.
    What the hell for?
    If only you knew how truly you speak.
    See above.
    Yes.
    Because the people in that locale have decided, as is their right, that they don't want to live in a community where beer is available for sale on Sunday mornings. You're welcome.

    And if you respond with another wall of text, I probably won't bother reading it, as by now it's all too clear that you have nothing new to say.
     
  22. Sallyally

    Sallyally Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yeah, yeah.
     
  23. rcfoolinca288

    rcfoolinca288 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Which god would that be?? Different people have different god.
     
  24. rcfoolinca288

    rcfoolinca288 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And it should be noted the founding fathers of this country were smart enough to have left that out of the pledge of allegiance.
     
  25. rcfoolinca288

    rcfoolinca288 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    LMAO. A bunch of fools who then proceed to lies.
     
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