Will near death experience accounts transform psychiatry and psychology?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by DennisTate, Jul 24, 2014.

  1. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My conclusion is that the original Intelligence.... The Ancient of Days would ultimately be a Scientist - Engineer - Inventor - Designer but...... is composed of fundamental energy as postulated in String Theory.

    A very interesting variation on this is the possibility of there being TWO fundamental energies..... .one based on light and one on gravity. One like Super Strings the other like Super Waves or Super Energetic Matter as Dr. Chaim Henry Tejman terms it.

    I cannot get my head around the idea of the original Intelligence originating in four dimensional space - time and being dependent on carbon????

    www.CarbonBias.blogspot.ca/
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
  2. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    I agree completely with your post here. While I both respect & admire science & the Scientific Method, I--like you--recognize its limitations. Science has always been limited to working with the physical universe. Most thoughtful people have known there are non-physical realities interconnecting with that physical universe at all times. Science chose early on, to avoid any & all relationships with those alternate realities. Perhaps that was a conscious choice made to avoid conflict with the very powerful church authorities at the time. But, anyway, the decision stuck, & remains intact, even up until today. But Quantum Physics forces some scientists to step across that physical-non-physical divide, & there's a growing awareness within the scientific community that the physical universe makes no sense working alone, disconnected to those alternate realities. In fact, it's becoming ever more apparent, that those alternate realities have a huge & constant impact on our physical reality. If mankind is to ever fully understand the reality we all live in, we will have to connect science & its method to the study of those alternate realities. We all work within them in our daily existence. We will never really understand that reality we're in until we begin to include the other realities that interconnect with ours, & investigate how we all interact & impact each other.
     
  3. JCS

    JCS Well-Known Member Donor

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    Well, as long as modern science remains in its current paradigm where it continues to reject consciousness as THE VERY fundamental force, driver & substance of all existence, and that All is One...then science will remain limited to physical/mechanical/chemical means to approaching all its problems & questions.

    And this, to me, is a symptom of what is essentially a "culture of death", and which has other wide-sweeping consequences.

    * It distances people further from one another (less compassion, caring, sharing, understanding, etc.).
    * It blocks more effective, safer, and cheaper forms of medical treatment/therapy, which breeds even more illness.
    * It breeds an apathetic, wasteful & destructive attitude towards nature & our natural resources.
    * It avoids/rejects/discredits the so-called paranormal/supernatural & spiritual, which then breeds a sense of separation from Oneness resulting in fear, despair, hopelessness, helplessness, and loneliness in people that can be debilitating.
    * It removes the magic of life and the limitless possibilities & creativity which children are born having a sense of, but quickly lose as they grow up.
    * It shapes our politics (competitive/defense oriented), economics (consumer/competitive/market oriented), education (one-size-fits-all/rote learning/job training-oriented), and societal structure (hierarchical/slave-master mentality).
    * It shapes our social priorities (less focus on living/thriving, more focus on surviving/getting by).
    * It conditions/programs people to blindly accept fear-based religious beliefs/doctrines/attitudes.
    * It promotes the primacy of authority as truth, rather than truth as authority.
    * In general, it promotes & breeds fear, separation, lack of energy, laziness, mindless busy-ness, addiction to distraction (excessive sex, drugs, entertainment, news, violence, sports, junk food, etc.), apathy, irresponsibility, limitation, ignorance, sickness, lack of purpose/meaning/value/self worth in life, and stifling of creativity & individual power.

    Anyway...you get the idea.

    And now it appears the elites/ruling class have realized that, with organized religion (and its medieval/dark age doctrines & declining followers) on its way out, science can be an even more powerful modern-day religion...particularly with the advent of AI & transhumanism.

    I suspect the transhumanist movement might be the next step towards the complete consolidation of the human will by hijacking the individual's energy/power. It will be used to download our minds (not spirit) into a collective sim-world & turn us into digital zombies where we can play out our digitally fabricated fantasies/desires...all the while employing programs to distract & derail us from realizing our own limitless powers. Tech junkies & those afraid of death will see it as a great thing to be able to live in such a world virtually forever (as they believe). But I see it differently.

    Well said!
     
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  4. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    Your post was a well-stated, thought provoking submission. I really enjoyed it. Thank you!!! :)
     
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  5. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I wholeheartedly agree!!!!!!

    This is one of the best assessments of this topic that I have ever read on any forum..... and I have read a lot about all this.
     
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  6. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    The universe predates human consciousness. By billions of years.
     
  7. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is evidence that suggests the opposite, that the most ancient part of human consciousness was around previous to space and time.

    https://www.near-death.com/experiences/exceptional/mellen-thomas-benedict.html#a05

     
  8. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but what about the person or animal putting everything into trying to get another breath? Maybe death is a nasty fate without romance and pomp. Maybe death is the worst kind of suffering and should be avoided at all cost. Hopefully , maybe it isn't so bad if it comes quickly or without pain.
     
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  9. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Near death experiencer Mr. Dean Braxton reports being in the presence of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus even before his body technically died, (I assume he means flatlined).




    DEAN BRAXTON INTERVIEW (Full-length) with Dr Cecil Stewart OBE
     
  10. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Well, this is demonstrably false as the universe is 14 billion years old and homosapeons have been around a few hundred thousand.
     
  11. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    And, I agree with you. :)
     
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  12. JCS

    JCS Well-Known Member Donor

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    Your claim is based on an unsupported & illogical premise that one came before the other. It ignores the possibility that the two (the universe & consciousness) are one and the same. Below are ways to look at this question logically to illustrate how the universe & consciousness are fundamentally inseparable.

    (1) The existence of any-thing (form/matter) requires order. Form/matter is ordered. Order denotes design. Design denotes intelligence. Intelligence denotes awareness. Awareness denotes consciousness. (To be aware is to be conscious. To be conscious is to be aware.) So consciousness is necessarily a coexistent condition of matter.

    Conclusion: Because no-thing can exist without a design, all that exists is a manifestation of consciousness. Thus, the universe = consciousness.

    (2) How are you defining "universe"? Only the visible/measurable ("matter") part of it? What is the fundamental (irreducible) "substance" of this matter? Matter can be reduced (to a limit), but consciousness remains modern science's Achilles' heel, for it lacks form & mass and can't be reduced/analysed/measured. Would not logic therefore point to consciousness as the "precursor" to matter, to the entire universe, and to all that exists?

    (3) All is One (which is scientifically & logically irrefutable). So that which can be reduced/measured (eg, matter) denotes a state of separation. Matter can not then be fundamental to the nature of the universe. It must be something that cannot be reduced/measured, for it cannot in any way denote a state of separation. What is it?

    Consciousness fits this criteria.

    We may then infer that the universe = consciousness, where matter & consciousness are fundamentally inseparable. Thus neither emerged from the other, for they are one and the same (two sides of the same coin). Matter may be viewed as "formed consciousness", and Oneness as "unformed consciousness".

    Form (eg, matter) is an expression of consciousness through the awareness of form. Hence, awareness of form is consciousness (Oneness) experiencing it-self (which is self-awareness). Form is thus made "existent" through awareness of form...and consciousness (Oneness) is made "existent" through this awareness. Therefore, existence is not defined by form, but rather by awareness of form.

    Conclusion: Because no-thing can exist without awareness, form/matter is not possible without consciousness. Thus, universe = consciousness.

    (4) Consciousness & form always exist simultaneously, for they are one & the same, and cannot exist independently. We know they are the same per the logic which follows from the Oneness of All: For an object to exist an observer must be aware of the object. For this to be possible requires separation between observer & object. If All is One, then this separation must be an illusion. The illusion of separation is therefore a requirement for the observer-object relationship, and thus the existence/awareness of any-thing.

    Matter did not "arise from" consciousness per se, as this would denote causality. Rather, matter exists by means of consciousness (Oneness) having awareness of it-self through the illusion of separation. Hence, matter always denotes an illusory state of separation (space/distance, time, motion/change, causality). But without the illusion of separation there's no awareness, and hence, no existence. Ergo, reality itself is a necessary contradiction...for it is both real AND an illusion.

    To better help you understand this, think of a hunk of clay that you take pieces from to mold into various shapes. It doesn't matter how many pieces you separate from the hunk of clay or what you form those pieces into...all the pieces will always remain clay. Eg, a piece of the clay may look like a tree, but it's still the original clay. The form may change, but not the "substance"...even if you cut the tree itself into a million pieces. Likewise, consciousness (like the clay) is the irreducible, fundamental "substance" from which all existence is formed...and in which all forms remain inseparable from.

    (5) As above, so below. No-thing that becomes manifest does so without a thought. Likewise anything we create with our hands is always "preceded" by consciousness (as a thought/dream/vision/etc.). I put "preceded" in quotes to point out that there is no time, so technically the thought of building a house and actually building the house exist simultaneously. The act of building the house (causality/illusion of separation) is the "formed" aspect of the same conscious energy (non-causality/Oneness).

    (6) You used the term "human consciousness". Could you have meant human mind? There's only one consciousness (Oneness)...but infinite minds (eg, human minds, alien minds, animal minds, planetary minds, etc.).
     
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  13. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    No it's based on physics and proven science. The universe is over 14 billions years old. Homosapeans have been around for a few hundred thousand. We know both of those facts. We know the universe predates the earliest known life form by billions of years.
     
  14. JCS

    JCS Well-Known Member Donor

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    You missed the entire point of what I posted.

    The universe IS consciousness. What we call "matter" is an expression of consciousness. Matter cannot create consciousness if it is, always has been, and always will be consciousness. Clay can be shaped into different forms, yet every form is still clay. Likewise, consciousness is the fundamental medium through which all things exist. Humans, plants, rocks, water, minerals, air, atoms, the planets, the stars, the galaxies, etc. are all expressions of consciousness.

    All is One, so every expression exists only by virtue of the illusion of separation which makes awareness (and thus existence itself) possible. It helps to better understand this if, when you see an object, you do not view yourself as part of an observer-object interaction, but rather view yourself as a perspective of the mind of Oneness.

    There exists no state in which consciousness is not being expressed, nor any state in which consciousness is absent. All is One...All is consciousness.
     
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  15. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    you can in no way demonstrate this. The universe is made up of matter/energy. The only "consciousness" we know of is on this planet, and didn't become conscious for billions of years after the universe began to expand.
     
  16. JCS

    JCS Well-Known Member Donor

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    The field of quantum mechanics/physics and ideas like quantum entanglement, string theory, non-locality, etc. all suggest (1) the Oneness of All, and (2) a "connection" between observer & object (although they won't yet admit to the former).

    Consciousness itself cannot be objectively studied under the current scientific methodologies of analysis. For now they can only reduce/measure matter, which is one of infinite forms (expressions) of consciousness. Consciousness is a topic scientists are still trying to find a way to study in a manner that fits their paradigm. I would say the ancients & extant aboriginal groups have a better understanding of the nature of consciousness & mind in its interplay and relationship with "matter". Buddhist & Hindu traditions have established an ancient and solid understanding of consciousness, mind, and matter. To its followers, their understanding of consciousness is not a belief, but a science.

    There have also been ongoing studies & research by scientists & doctors in the field of parapsychology (eg, by Radin, Sheldrake, Moody, Weissman, Windbridge Institute, et. al.).

    You say "matter/energy"...but what is that "matter/energy" made of? What is the fundamental "substance" of matter? Energy? What is energy but a function of other variables (eg, mass, speed of light, frequency, etc.)? This tells us nothing about consciousness...just further expressions/manifestations of whatever "matter" is made of.

    If you can understand the Oneness of All & consciousness, you can understand matter & energy. Modern science will have to be able to grasp and understand consciousness if it is to understand the true nature of matter or the universe. Otherwise, starting with matter will only force them to design bigger & more advanced "cutting tools" & "smashers."
     
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  17. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    making baseless and unsupportable claims, again, does not make you any less wrong.
     
  18. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    Impressive post. Thoughtful, insightful, perceptive, clearly stated, & interesting. Thank you for sharing. :)
     
  19. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    Consciousness exists in everything that exists, & is a required prerequisite for anything physical to exist. Matter is simply a different form of energy. You could say matter is a "frozen" form of energy. So, in essence, everything is a form of energy.
     
  20. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    What definition of consciousness are you using?
     
  21. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    We don't really have a "scientific" definition of consciousness yet. I'm simply referring to the fact that everything has an inherent sense of being, whether that sense attains the level of self awareness or not. I'm regarding that sense of being as a form of consciousness. Both quantum physicists & researchers in spirituality, both focus on what we term "consciousness," & there's an ongoing & increasing effort to determine precisely what consciousness really is. I don't know the answer, but no one does, yet. I'm excited in anticipation of an answer soon. :)
     
  22. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    inanimate non living objects are not conscious, unless you water consciousness down to be absolutely meaningless.
     
  23. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    Like many things in life, the definition of "consciousness" isn't an all-or-nothing thing. There are a range of different levels of consciousness that are between being self-aware & "meaningless."
     
  24. James California

    James California Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ~ In general it is not often that an individual will actually "change" their thinking/beliefs. A profound experience such as near-death, an epiphany of faith, can cause this . I don't see any reason this would change the practice of psychology/psychotherapy .
    Psychology Today is a publication that needs readers - just like any other magazine.
     
  25. ibshambat

    ibshambat Banned

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