Russians Get Bloodthirsty Threats By Turks Over Idlib

What does this even mean?

 

By "serious" is "seriously conservative or radical."
So you have Leftist, liberal, pro-Western Turkish people. These
people, like all Westerners, don't have as many children as the
conservative Muslims - and get swamped by them.
Same thing in Israel with the Orthodox, actually.
And something similar is happening in India with the burgeoning
Muslim population in Bangladesh coming over the border.

I reckon that in the end Islam could rule a big chunk of the world.
This would see half of Africa and all of Europe and Russia being
Muslim nations. Only China and the Americas will remain free of
Islamic control.

 

And what exactly is the Western counterpart to this?

 

I suppose it would be the impoverished enclaves of Muslims in
parts of France and Belgium. Some Pakistani-Afghanistan
communities in England, various Syrian jihadist now living in
Germany, a large minority of Chechens under the thumb of
the Russians and so on.
Not sure if there are counterparts in America.
*** because America treats its minorities better ***

 

The propaganda and lies are running strong on the thread today. How about some truth.

On August 7, 2008 while Putin was attending the Olympic Games in China, Pres. Shashkavili of Georgia in a surprise attack reminiscent of Pearl Harbor, bombed and shelled the Ossetian City of Tskhinvali. According to the commander of the Russian forces, the Georgian shelling destroyed most of the city.

S. Ossetia had only 2,500 militia and fewer than 600 Russian "peacekeepers", while Georgia's American and Israeli trained troops numbered about 7,500 and were also supplied with tanks, armored personnel carriers, night-vision equipment and drones.

Everything changed though the next day when the Russian army entered, and the rest is history. Sashkavili afterwards became a wanted man in Georgia.

 

I suppose "American trained" is a way of saying "American involved" ?
Same for the Israelis (read "Jews") ?
But once again the peace loving peoples of Russia have overcome Western Imperialists
and Capitalists (don't forget "Jews") in support of peace-loving innocent peoples and
oppressed Russian nationals.
Next will be all of Ukraine
and Poland
and the Baltics
and maybe France (how many oppressed Russians are in France?)
These Russian wars are wars against IMPERIALISM. Just ask Putin and his Ministry
for Propaganda. Long live the emperor, long live the empire.

 

American trained Georgians is exactly what I said. I did not say American involved although I'm sure they were. And when I said Israeli trained Georgians, I meant Israeli trained Georgians, I did not say Jews. You're the one who said Jews because that's how you think, it is not though how I think.

Emperor ​

Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin

I'm dancing now so full of glee,
to tell you that our dear country
is not for sale, nor will it fail
and if you think it's just a tale,

then let me say that we are proud
and burned too much in history;
from others that were just like thee.

But being burned's a lesson learned
and trust is something one must earn
and you people haven't. - Jeannette
​

 

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You ask for truth, but you offer Russian propaganda.

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On August 1, the South Ossetia Troops used an IED to blow up a Georgian Police vehicle. That day the Georgians deployed snipers that killed 4, and wounded 7. That evening the Ossetia separationists started Georgian cites. Georgia then returned fire. So, the whole claim that this was a Pearl Harbor style attack is total BS. ​

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Further, you claim that the Georgians bombed and shelled Ossetian city of Tskhinvali, and totally destroyed it. This is not supported by facts. Observers claimed that the residential area was destroyed, the Jewish areas. The Residential areas were destroyed because the Ossetians used schools and the residential areas for Artillery, motors, and Anti-Aircraft cannons. As far as the Jewish sector is concerned, those that observed the remains, they claimed that it was overgrown with trees and shrubs. They believe that the area was actually destroyed in 1991 or 1992. ​

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You are right that Ossetia had 2500 active duty military. They also had 13,500 Reservists that were called up. Further, the Russians maintained a peace keeping forces level of 3,000. Let's also not forget the 9,000 forces from Abkhazia. By my estimates it looks like there were 27,500 troops supporting Ossetia. ​

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Compare that to the Georgian forces. They had 10,000 to 11,000 active duty personnel, but 2,000 of those were deployed to Iraq. That leaves 9,000 active duty troops. They also had 10,000 reservist. That makes a total of 19,000. You also pointed out that the Americans and Israelis trained the Georgian forces, but who do you think trained and armed the Ossetia forces? The answer is Russia.​

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Additionally, the Russian forces did not stop at the Georgian/Ossetia border. They pushed as far as the pipeline. They then closed off the valves that they Georgians was using to siphon of Natural Gas from the pipeline. ​

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Yes, they sent in the 58th Army (70,000 troops)), Russian Airborne troops, 4th Airforce command, Russian Guards Motor Rifle Division, and two Chechen Battalions. Hardly a small force to send against an army of 19,000. You also should ask how they deployed all these troops within one day. Obviously, they already them staged. Sounds like a complete set-up to me. Not to mention that you are parroting Russian propaganda without checking the facts. So, maybe it is you that should use a little truth.

 

The similarity with Pearl Harbor is that in both cases they knew war was imminent, and that it was a surprise attack by Georgia at a time when Putin was attending the opening of the Olympic Games in China. The same happened in Kiev. The protests to overthrow the legal government started on the opening day of the Olympics at Socchi.

I don't think the Russian General said totally destroyed. Please don't take things out of context. ​

I only know what was written in the EU report. They said there was a lot of exaggeration that cannot be verified.

That's interesting, whose gas were they stealing? Sounds like Ukraine there.​

There were skirmishes on both side, and I'm sure Moscow knew the Georgian forces were being trained from outside, so they might have been prepared for an attack - something we would have been at Pearl Harbor had we known the Japanese planes could reach it.

We didn't! As for Russia, never underestimate its Intelligence. Sashkavili did, and he's a fool. Then again fools can be set up very easily, so maybe he was - although I doubt Putin would endanger civilian lives unless the situation was serious enough to call for it.

Here's a few quotes from the report commissioned by the Council of the European Union, and written by Swiss diplomat Heidi Tagliavini, with the help of 30 European military, legal and history experts:

The conflict erupted on 7 August 2008, as Georgia shelled the breakaway region of South Ossetia in an attempt to regain control over it. The previous months had seen a series of clashes.

"The shelling of Tskhinvali (the South Ossetian capital) by the Georgian armed forces during the night of 7 to 8 August 2008 marked the beginning of the large-scale armed conflict in Georgia," the report says.

It adds later: "There is the question of whether [this] use of force... was justifiable under international law. It was not."

The report states that while Russia's initial actions in fighting back against attacks on its personnel in South Ossetia were justified, its subsequent actions, in pushing far into Georgia proper "went far beyond the reasonable limits of defence" and was "in violation of international law".​

 

Now to get back to Syria.

Turkey’s President Erdogan said on Wednesday Ankara was prepared to launch a military incursion into Idlib to force the Syrian army out. ​

This could be another one of Erdogan's 'bubbles' as Assad calls his words, or he might be serious. I see Erdogan as being in a bit of a pickle - thanks to his dependency on Vladimir Putin, not only for his life in the last coup, but also because of Turkey's economic dependence on Russia.

Erdogan ran on a platform of making Turkey great again, and in the Ottoman mind, that means territorial expansion into their former lands. He's hindered though by the American supported Kurds, as well as the Russian supported Syrian army.

Anyway things are getting desperate, and the Turkish people are not too pleased with him - especially the military since they are constantly being purged. Erdogan can only talk, thus the 'bubbles', but he cannot act in any way.

In the meantime there is Israel on the one side of Syria, and the US on the other side holding on to the oil wells for the Kurds. Then there's Turkey holding on to Idlib. According to Israeli news live Russia sent its newest bombers capable of carrying hypersonic nuclear missiles to Syria. Why? If not for a major war - or to stop a major war from happening.

Things look serious. What in the h*ll is going on?

 

Well here's what's going on in Syria, and it ain't nice:

"...Earlier in the day, the Russian Foreign Ministry said Russian and Syrian forces have continued to come under attack in Idlib, (by the terrorists), while there were also attempts to attack Russia's Hmeymim airbase. On 9 February, Russian forces thwarted two attacks on the Hmeymim airbase that used combat unmanned aerial vehicles launched from the area of the Idlib de-escalation zone..."​

And here's the usual bullsh*t from the American Ambassador Kelly Craft at the UN. Mind you now, this is the same nation that completely destroyed Mosul and Raqqa and bombed thousands of Arabs into oblivion without the least bit of concern.

"In the days ahead, the United States will not spare any effort, including working with allies, to isolate the Assad regime diplomatically and economically to deliver the relief, the resources and, ultimately, the peace that is kept from you for far too long."
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Maybe you need a new History book. Because in mine, the United States knew that there were wars going on, but they were taking actions to avoid contact. Such as removing US forces from China when the Japanese were expanding territories that they held there. There were groups that wanted the US to get involved in WWII, but there were also those in power that did not want the US involved. When Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, it was unprovoked, and the attack took place before a declaration of war was delivered to the US.

Now, I know that things back in 1941 is not the same as in 2008. But when you consider that the first element of that war was the Ossetians using an IED to blowup a Georgian police vehicle. So, it is really hard to buy into claim by a Russian General, and parroted by you, that the Ossetians did not know that the war was coming. Especially since, the first artillery fire was Ossetia Separationist shelling a Georgian city. Not the other way around. I mean think about it. We shot off artillery, but we didn't know that the Georgians would retaliate.

BTW, Georgia was the legal government of South Ossetia at the beginning of the war. Yet, this was a typical Russian tactic. Infiltrate Russians in plain clothes to convince people to back seceding from the country that they were in. These are countries along the Russian border. They claim autonomy, and Russia sends in the military to back that claim. These areas will claim autonomy, and then Russia annexes them. They tried it again in Crimea.

That is all you have left isn't there. All you have is to play semantics games. There is no difference between destroyed and totally destroyed. Destroyed is destroyed. Plain and simple. My point was that there are those that tried to claim that the Georgian shelling destroyed the Jewish sectors, but that sector had actually been destroyed back in 1991 to 1992.

BS!!!!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armed_Forces_of_South_Ossetia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War

It was both Ukraine and Georgia. Georgia was stealing Natural Gas that was supposed to be going to Turkey, and Ukraine was stealing heating oil that was supposed to be going Eastern Europe. Those pipelines were built, or at least started back when the Soviet Union had control of both Ukraine and Georgia. When the Soviet Union collapsed, and these countries obtained their freedom, it put a crimp in Russia's plan.​

What I don't underestimate about Russia is their ability to look innocent while being a bunch of scumbags. They moved troops on the other side of the Roki tunnel. They had Ossetia Separationists to start trouble that would require Georgia to react. You can not blame Georgia for wanting a territory that historically belongs to them. When they were having to defend themselves against separationist forces, they took their shot at getting the breakaway providence back. What the Georgians did not know was that they were walking into an ambush. Russia poured through the tunnel, and drove the Georgians out. But they did not stop there. They went after the real objective. That was sealing up the pipeline so that the Georgians could not steal anymore natural gas. Once the pipeline was secured, they pulled back into South Ossetia.
If you want to compare that to something, try the Korean Conflict. The Chinese used the tactic to infiltrate 200,000 troops into Korea.

 

Pearl Harbor unprovoked? President Roosevelt was warned by members of Congress that he was leaving Japan with no choice but war.
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On July 26 1941, President Franklin Roosevelt seizes all Japanese assets in the United States in retaliation for the Japanese occupation of French Indo-China. The US also imposed an embargo on Japan on oil, scrap iron and steel. Japan lost 3/4 of its overseas trade and 88% of its oil import.​

I guess the report then by the Swiss diplomat Heidi Tagliavini, with the help of 30 European military, legal and history experts and commissioned by the Council of the European Union is wrong. Thanks for letting us all know.

The war between Russia and Georgia was started by Washington's stooge Sashkavili, and he is now a 'wanted' man in Georgia - I think though that Washington might be trying to put him back in power. But I'm not sure. There is though some regime change manipulations going on in Tbilisi, or at least from what I read. Seems like they're getting too friendly with Russia.

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The folks fighting to liberate Syria from Assad - were radical Islamist's - who wanted to turn Syria into a Strict Sharia Theocracy. The people fighting for Assad were the one's fighting for a free Syria - to keep Syria from becoming a totalitarian strict sharia nightmare.

You are correct about Raqqa - this was the ISIS capital. The people of Raqqa on the other hand were not all ISIS - they were regular folks like you and me that happened to wake up one morning to find that they had been plunged into a strict sharia nightmare - dark age style. Their daughters and wives raped and/or forced into marriage - genocide, war crimes, crimes against humanity galore - and posted all over the internet.

 

If you were to take the time to read the actual report that you claim to be quoting, you might see things differently. Unless, of course, you are paid to spout such Russian sided opinions. Here is the actual report:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/30_09_09_iiffmgc_report.pdf

In one post you said, "S. Ossetia had only 2,500 militia and fewer than 600 Russian "peacekeepers", while Georgia's American and Israeli trained troops numbered about 7,500 and were also supplied with tanks, armored personnel carriers, night-vision equipment and drones."

When I stated otherwise, you claimed, "I only know what was written in the EU report. They said there was a lot of exaggeration that cannot be verified."

Since none of those numbers are included the "Independent International Fact-Finding Mission on the Conflict in Georgia" by Heidi Tagliavini, then you must have obtained them from another source. Care to provide it, or do you want to stand on the numbers that I have provided?

The basic question that is addressed in the report, but ignored by you, was what gave Russia the Authority to interceed into Georgian internal affairs? According to Tagliavini's report, South Ossetia and Abkhazia clearly belonged to Georgia. (Refer to paragraph 11 found on page 17). Neither providence had the right to self-determination. Further, Russia's extending passports to South Ossetia and Abkhazia citizens was a clear violation of international law. But then that is what all this is about. Russian getting involved in internal matters of others. As Tagliavini clearly states South Ossetia and Abkhazia are clearly Georgian territories. Therefore, Russia had no authority to interceed, and the whole Sochi Agreement was actually a violation of international law. Then there is the recognition of South Ossetia and Abkhazia as independent nations. That is another clear violation of international law. So, you have the forcing of Georgia to sign the Sochi Agreement that it should not have been involved in, the recognition of territories of Georgia as independent states and the whole passportisation thing. All three are clear violations of International law. It is my conclusion that Russia was clearly the provocateur.

(I wish that we were conversing where I could see you. I have no doubt that your head just exploded! )

Seriously though, I never said that the Japanese Attack on Pearl Harbor was unprovoked. What I did say was that the US was attempting to stay out of their way. Also, that the attacked was unannounced, and took place before the Japanese Government had delivered a Declaration of War. I know that does not sound like a big thing, especially to Russian Parrots, but it was considered a really big thing back then. I am talking hara-kiri big.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/sep/30/georgia-attacks-unjustifiable-eu
I do not know this is Russian propaganda?

 

You are insulting a lot of people in Syria who did not want Assad OR the radicals.
Doesn't really matter - in the long run the people who have the most kids rule the
world - this is how Erdogen holds on to power - his child rearing conservative base.
And it's how Europe will end.

 

what does having kids have to do with the issue in Syria ? very strange commentary.

The people who were unhappy with Assad were not all Islamist's. Almost all of those folks ended up fighting for Assad because the Rebels were Islamist Jihadists - and they would take Assad over that in a second. So you are confusing the protest movement with the war.

The people of Syria - those who were not Islamist's were fighting for Assad - and the Islamist's were fighting against Assad. So me calling Islamists - Islamists - is hardly an insult. They wear it like a badge of honor. What would be an insult - were if you were to call these radical extremists "Secularists" - that would get you killed in the land ISIS.

Not sure what cup of koolaid you are drinking from - but - you need to find another

To your second comment - although it has nothing to do with the nature of the anti Assad rebels - "how Europe will end" I somewhat agree with. These Islamist's are a plague - human garbage in my books.

Why on earth Obama decided to lead a Global effort to arm, supply, and support these Islamist's (led by Al Qaeda) in their quest to turn Syria into a Strict Sharia totalitarian nightmare - is a strange duck in deed.

 

Of course it is. That is why I keep calling this individual a "Russian Parrot".

 

the Russian empire used to include the baltic nations, most of poland and all of ukraine/crimea & kazachstan & more so i dont see where you see minorities that where never part of russia
& all of the above where part of russia for more then 100years (including finland)

 

RT is a BS source.
Don't trust the Russkies!

 

What are you saying, that Russia ought to restore its empire?

 

There were American NGO's in Syria for years, thus the protests of 2011. Like all American fostered regime changes, the protests started peacefully with some groups wanting more rights in the Assad government. Then like all the rest of America's regime change events, it turned into a battleground. Maybe they brought in snipers from Georgia like in Ukraine, but I don't know.

What I do know is that many who were against Assad realized they were supporting foreign terrorists so they joined Assad's army. Later on Lavrov's diplomatic efforts helped to reunite up to 100 more groups with the Assad government. Those 'moderate' head choppers like the White Helmets who we were supporting, were nothing but a propaganda ploy to send arms to Al Nusra/Al Queda.

 

Oh, then I should be reading the MSM?

THAT'S THE BEST YET! ​

 

No, only that they shouldn't try to ethnically cleanse the Russians in the Baltics to grab their lands. Instead they should ease up on their paranoia and give them more rights. This is what Putin did in the Federation and the 123 languages spoken there. If he didn't, then they wouldn't want to be a part of Russia anymore than the Russians in the Baltics would want to be part of Estonia and Latvia.

Putin said it was hard, but it worked out well - especially with the Chechnyans, because in the past years they were willing to shed their blood for Mother Russia.