Navy Cruiser Seizes Huge Iranian Arms Cache in Arabian Sea

Yeah the guy before the shah was great. And after the shah. Yeah awesome..

The Iranian government lost all its right to exist when they took our people hostage. They are the bad guys.

 

Please provide the names of those American oil companies.

As well as the dates that US Marines invaded Iran to "put down" the peasants.

I'd like to familiarize myself with this information.

 

Good ideas! Go with those.

 

Not true

 

I must take exception here.

Terror is blowing up school buses, hiding behind human shields, recording/distributing videos of the beheadings of journalists, the wholesale rape of girls and women as a stratagem of war, locking men in cages and setting them on fire; these, among others, are the acts that define terrorism.

Neither Iran or the US, as nation states, has engaged in these behaviors.

Only the wahhabist offspring of KSA employee what is identifiably terrorism.

With all due respect, I ask that you not imply that the US uses terror as a stratagem of war.

Words have meaning, let's be judicious in our use of them.

War is cruel and terrifying in its own right. And the US has gone this route too oft.

 

Light reading for anyone interested in not believing leftist lies.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Reza_


Couple notes.
1. The Shah didn't even kill the guy who lead the coup against him after he regained power.

2. Refused to give the order for his troops to fire on people protesting against him and it cost him his country

3. He is responsible for modernizing his country and economy and during hisc reign Iran's economic growth was greater than that of the UK and even the US. And the people gainfully employed. Iran was doing great and the idiotic prime minister lead a coup against him.

So leftists bashing him? Yawn go learn something

 

Hmm...says your link is broke.

 

My message here won't sit well for any side of the arguments on the historical issues being debated.

A fair and accurate account relating to those issues would properly show the US/Britain interfering with the choices made by the people of Iran to liberate their oil resources from foreign control, frustrating those choices through a series of actions (some of which are reminiscent of what the US/Israel are doing today), and playing a key role in undermining the government of Dr. Mossadegh. The entire set of actions taken at the time, with the Brits taking the lead initially (in some ways similar to how the Israelis have been taking the lead against Iran recently), enlisting greater US support eventually, included investing heavily in false propaganda about events and issues n Iran, imposing an economic blockade on Iran, and bribing and coercing various figures within Iran to undermine Dr. Mossadegh and his government. This here was the true crime, from my perspective, when it comes to US/British actions during that period.

In this equation, Operation Ajax (the CIA/British blue print to deliver the coup de grace against Dr. Mossadegh) itself wasn't all that significant -- or even necessarily all that well thought out or successful on its own.
In fact, the initial actions taken within the framework of "Operation Ajax" needed to be aborted (for reasons whose details aren't significant here) and that then led the Shah to flee the country, before he was restored to the throne a few days later by a coup orchestrated by royalists within the Iranian military loyal to the Shah (including, however, under the leadership of those involved in the aborted script from Operation Ajax). Regardless, the crime against Iran and Dr. Mossadegh had already happened long before his removal from power.

As for the Shah? He was not the monster his detractors have claimed and have painted him to be, nor was he the 'all knowing' benevolent monarch, charting the true path to modernization and progress for Iran, that he tried to claim. Real progress arises, not from a single individual dictating everything in the country, but by a nation doing a a lot of things on its own. Learning, sometimes through 'trial and error', and other times by emulating what has worked elsewhere until better solutions come about. Iran, today, is a lot more progressive, enlightened, modern and advanced than it ever was or might have been under the Shah. Real progress and real modernity isn't about copying the latest fashion in the West, forcing people to emulate whatever is thought in the West, adopting and copying (often inapplicable) laws arises from social conditions in some Western society and imposing them on the country. No more than real power, which the Shah was very much interested in projecting, creating a superficially strong military considered one of the top military powers in the world, is about ordering planes and tanks and equipment from outside and having soldiers march nicely in goose step. These aren't the real ingredients of progress of development.

Iran is in the early stages of what has done many times throughout its history. Namely, while absorbing the requisite lessons from foreign civilizations and cultures, resisting any form of foreign domination and threat to Iran's distinct national heritage and identity. This is something Iran has done, fiercely and clearly, because Iran was one of the first nations in the world to develop a sense of 'nation-hood' and was the first true global empire. The combination made Iran a nation that has never accepted any foreign domination, especially in its immediate sphere, and has resisted and rejected it throughout history. Alexander conquered the Persian empire; his successors were quickly booted from power in less than a hundred years and an Iranian tribe, the Parthians, came to power and then resisted the power of a rising empire that claimed Alexander's mantle, namely Rome. The Parthians, however, were initially (notwithstanding their Iranian origin) a Hellenized group of rulers (much like the Shah was westernized). Hence, Iran experienced an anti-Hellenic phase during the Parthian period and then a revolution that overthrow the Parthians altogether and brought to power an even more nationalistic Iranian empire, that of the Sassanids. The Sassanian empire eventually rivaled the power of Rome and the Parthians and Sassanians together, for over 7 centuries, stopped Rome's advance further into the Middle East. Iran did the same after the Arab conquest; leading the revolt and resistance to Arab rule. Alone among the nations conquered by the Arabs which didn't become Arab and even adopting Islam, Iranians eventually rallied to a sect within Islam that didn't even recognize the political legitimacy of all those Islamic caliphs and caliphates that had ruled or aspired to rule it. And today, what Iran is resisting and has resisted is US/Israel hegemony in the region and the newest threats to its national identity and heritage.

 

I wish you would leave 'propaganda arguments' (namely those which aren't meant to enlighten but rather draw people to your side based on falsehoods) to those who are already engaging in it. Here, we can discuss issues without the need to engage in such propaganda as I doubt the few hundred people who might read our messages would either be significantly influenced by them in their political views or, even more importantly, make such a difference in the larger calculus of things.

I say all that above, because when I alluded to the polls and elections, I was talking about legitimate (even western) polls. And I was talking about legitimate elections, including one overseen by numerous observers from different countries in the world (the Syrian Presidential election in 2012), not to mention numerous elections in countries like Iraq which were under US occupation and polls in those countries (or elsewhere that the axis of resistance has shown its popularity in polls, including in Lebanon, or even in elections under Israeli supervision when Hamas won the Palestinian elections). None of these were 'show election'. None are polls from stooges. What I alluded to reflects actual grass routes sentiments in these countries. The opposite is propaganda. And it doesn't matter how many times Saddam (the enemy of IRAN armed to the teeth by Iran's enemies to fight IRAN) is mentioned somehow to make any point about IRAN.

 

Exactly - My point was that if folks are going to call Iran a terrorist nation " for support of the Houthi's and Hamas " - then by that definition - the US is a terrorist nation as well.

 

[QUOTE="Robert E Allen, post: 1071450435, member: 78565"

The Iranian government lost all its right to exist when they took our people hostage. They are the bad guys.[/QUOTE]

1) Those who were in power in Iran during the Hostage crisis no longer make up Gov't - so that Gov't doesn't exist.
2) The Israeli Gov't is keeping the Palestinians Hostage - so by your reckoning - that Gov't has no right to exist ?

 

Are you sure? I've heard good things about that one.

 

You were asking about "State Sponsored Propaganda" asking "which State". The Propaganda industry is a multi multi Billion dollar industry in this nation - Not all of which is "State Sponsored" mind you - but a whole lot of it is.

 

Based on what?

 

You already know the answer - so stop asking silly questions

 

Please stop calling them "The troubles"
I lost a friend when these Irish terrorists set off a bomb in Guildford with the sole purpose of killing off duty soldiers.

 

This:

 

The U.S. does not do those things.

 

1) Those who were in power in Iran during the Hostage crisis no longer make up Gov't - so that Gov't doesn't exist.
2) The Israeli Gov't is keeping the Palestinians Hostage - so by your reckoning - that Gov't has no right to exist ?[/QUOTE]

The current Iranians government is a continuation of the government they had during the hostage crisis and has never repudiated or asked for forgiveness for that governments actions. Thus they are still culpable.

How are the Israelis keeping the Palestinians hostage? They are free to leave at any time. The Israelis would probably actually prefer they do.

 

The current Iranians government is a continuation of the government they had during the hostage crisis and has never repudiated or asked for forgiveness for that governments actions. Thus they are still culpable.

How are the Israelis keeping the Palestinians hostage? They are free to leave at any time. The Israelis would probably actually prefer they do.[/QUOTE]

They are not free to leave - it is an apartheid state. Regardless - your argument is abject nonsense on steroids - as usual. The US Gov't has done a lot worse than take a few people hostages - So by your reckoning - the US Gov't has no right to exist.

 

They are not free to leave - it is an apartheid state. Regardless - your argument is abject nonsense on steroids - as usual. The US Gov't has done a lot worse than take a few people hostages - So by your reckoning - the US Gov't has no right to exist.[/QUOTE]

Completely false regarding Israel being an "apartheid state". And I'm curious as to what you think the U.S. Government has done that is a lot worse than taking hostages.

 

None of the hostages died! Unlike when the US send one missile to blow up an alleged terrorist killing 20 other bystanders. As for hostages, the US took hundreds of 'hostages' from Afghanistan and Iraq and imprisoned them in various prisons in Iraq and some for many years in Guantanamo just because they happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time

 

Acts of war are not terrorism.

 

Reminds me of Israel. As we know, the Jews only kill innocent Palestinians.
And America imprisons innocent civilians who were in the wrong place at
the wrong time.
Smacks of incompetence, really. I mean, here are all these Muslims who
go around sniping, blowing up buses and restaurants, knife attacks, truck
attacks etc.. These heroes of the Muslim world aren't even punished.

 

I believe one of them was released because he was in danger of dying and several of them had long term health problems from their experience. The hostage takers were not benign and the government was not blameless, they could have ended it at any time they chose. Today they are very stressed by the sanctions that have been imposed. Perhaps they will be forced to change and loosen their grip on the Iranian people if we don't have another Obama to prop them back up like our last one did.