New German Battle Ship capable to fire projectiles into space

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by Sobo, Jan 20, 2020.

  1. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    Really. The brits developed the destruction and killing of civilian to a art, with their firebombings.
    My home town was 80% destroyed, in one night, 20,000 civilian died, in 1 night.
    The industrial factories stayed untouched.
    The US bombing was timed, they wanted as many of the first responders outside, as possible.
    That was a war against civilians.
    Especially the senseless bombings of cities, not industry, at the end of the war.
    There was no need for it, Germany was defeated, it was nothing but blood thirst, because killing had become just a daily exercise, kill as long as you can and as many as you can.
     
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  2. George Bailey

    George Bailey Well-Known Member

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    That is not the answer he wanted to hear... Of course Churchill was a real son of a bitch and he and FDR might have activated the Morganthau Plan had Stalin not shown his cards so soon. Today we cite the holocaust as justification for all of it. Of course at that time nobody knew what was going on.
     
  3. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    Ah, no. The Germanic bands spread feudalism everywhere they spread out to. American culture is more aligned with ancient Greek/Roman culture along with Judaeo/Christian roots. Besides, the Normans conquered the Anglo-Saxons so their culture would have prevailed.
     
  4. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    There was a discussion about this sort of thing involving an American football game. One side was being killed and the side doing all the scoring kept up the pressure until someone asked them why they don't let up. The answer was, the other side hasn't conceded the game (or something like that). One side's view is that killing civilians was not necessary and was basically a war crime. The other side felt that civilians help with the war effort. They make the tanks and bullets that are used to kill the other side. They can all become combatants under the right circumstances. Killing civilians was seen as part of the effort to shorten the war and shortening the war also helped save those interned in camps. The Brits bombed at night, so they weren't concerned about taking out individual factories or tactical targets. They were operating according to bomber Harris'es plan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Arthur_Harris,_1st_Baronet
     
  5. pitbull

    pitbull Banned Donor

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    Nope, brother; that was war against a madman who decided to sacrifice the German people for his personal dream of world domination. Blame your "Fuhrer" Adolph for what happened, but not those who fought for the survival of the free world.
     
  6. George Bailey

    George Bailey Well-Known Member

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    A very slippery slope. By your logic the holocaust was justifiable.
     
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  7. George Bailey

    George Bailey Well-Known Member

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    Many holes here. #1 The British, French, and Americans all had empires and civilians in their populations that were unfree or disenfranchised not to mention the misery the Soviets had been creating since 1917. #2 Hitler did not want world domination and had no interest in building a foreign Empire. The empire that was to be built would be in the East at the expense of Soviet Communism, not exactly the "free world." It is well known that Hitler did not want war with the West.

    You are right about Hitler being a madman and sacrificing the German people. I hate him especially for not surrendering in 1944. Too bad the July 20 plot failed. It was after this that almost half of the deaths occured.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2020
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  8. pitbull

    pitbull Banned Donor

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    Really? :(
    Then why did he bomb London and Coventry and declared war on the USA?
     
  9. George Bailey

    George Bailey Well-Known Member

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    Acknowledge the other points. Here is the answer to your question.

    To quote the great English historian Lord Bullock. "Hitler didn't want a general war. What he wanted no doubt was to crush Poland. After that the West he thought wasn't going to start up a war again."

    Britain was bombed AFTER they declared war on Germany...
    The US was in a defacto war with Germany by supplying the Allies with weapons. Hitler's decision to declare war on the US justifiable, but incredibly foolish. He didn't even consult with any generals. Nuts.
     
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  10. pitbull

    pitbull Banned Donor

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    Before WW2, the UK had formed a military alliance with Poland. They were obliged to help, but in fact, did nothing.

    France, Netherlands, Belgium, even Greece and Africa were attacked by Hitler's warriors. Germany was like a rabid dog at that time. They had to be stopped for the sake of world's peace and freedom.

    Also, Hitler wanted to exterminate the inhabitants of eastern Europe, rob their land and colonize it with Germans. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost
    :(
     
  11. Bush Lawyer

    Bush Lawyer Well-Known Member

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    Hmm...London had the crap bombed out of it, so I guess you can expect quid pro quo.
     
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  12. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    Your logic is lacking with a false equivalence fallacy. German civilians were citizens of a nation we were at war with and they could add to the war effort. Nothing of the kind is involved with the victims of the holocaust.
     
  13. George Bailey

    George Bailey Well-Known Member

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    From Hitler's perspective the Jews were responsible for the war.

    The bottom line is civilians are off limits. Period. If this rule is not followed it becomes a slippery slope where all civilians are seen as the enemy and are targets.
     
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  14. George Bailey

    George Bailey Well-Known Member

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    The bombing of Dresden and London are not even comparable.
     
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  15. George Bailey

    George Bailey Well-Known Member

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    You really need to do more research. Jumping into a topic and then using wikipedia to catch up and build your argument is not sufficient.
     
  16. Bush Lawyer

    Bush Lawyer Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, the Allies were far more efficient at the same job.
     
  17. George Bailey

    George Bailey Well-Known Member

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    Praising the death of civilians. God forbid the chinese ever bomb American cities and years after the say it was justified.
     
  18. Bush Lawyer

    Bush Lawyer Well-Known Member

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    Well, what sort of response did you expect after making the obvious comment that the devastation of Dresden was to a far greater extent than in London. It was merely a question of degree. The Luftwaffe intended bombing civilians in London, the Allies returned fire on civilians in Dresden.
     
  19. pitbull

    pitbull Banned Donor

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    Why don't you like Wikipedia?
    Too much truth? :D
     
  20. George Bailey

    George Bailey Well-Known Member

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    No. I think it is fine for a quick reference, but I don't like having to coach people through historical discussions when they have to go to wikipedia in between points to catch up and haven't spent years studying the topic like I have.

    An example is Greece. You mentioned it. Why did Hitler go into greece. I know because I have studied it many times. You read it on wikipedia and do not understand the why. You need more time to study.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
  21. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    It's actually basic history. It was called the "strategic bombing campaign" in Europe. Winston Churchill was largely responsible for it. And it involved the deliberate and systematic targeting of German civilians. I'm kind of surprised you didn't know that. As for the Pacific theater, it's not even debatable that the US government deliberately targeted and killed huge amounts of civilians. THEY NUKED TWO JAPANESE CITIES.
     
  22. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    Uh, yes.

    The USA began as an English colony. The English are descended from Anglo-Saxons. The English "common law" is based on preexisting Germanic customary laws. The English language is a West Germanic language. American culture is a direct descendant of ancient Germanic culture.

    Germanic culture went from "barbarian" to "civilized" after the fall of the Roman empire. "Feudalism" was just a transition between the two phases. Virtually all cultures that go from uncivilized to civilized experience a period of "feudalism" where tribes coalesce into kingdoms and fiefdoms. Germanic civilization was no different in that regard. The difference is that unlike every other civilization in history, Germanic civilization actually evolved past the concept of nobility and royalty and enshrined the concept of rights and equality into the law.

    Do you speak Greek or Latin? Are English people descended from Greeks and Romans? Did the common law of the English-speaking world come from the Greeks and Romans?

    "Judeo-Christian" culture is largely a myth. Judaism and Christianity are two separate and mutually exclusive religions. Christianity was founded in opposition to Judaism. Religious Jews expressly reject Christianity and vice versa. And in case you forgot, Germanic peoples were all Christianized, so your point is largely moot.

    Uh, no.

    The Normans did conquer England's political system, but Anglo-Saxon culture remained the predominate culture across the country. French is spoken at English court, but English commoners never adopted Norman language, customs, etc. to any significant extent.

    Not that any of it matters, since the Normans were Germanic themselves. The entire French nation is descended from the Franks, who were a Germanic tribe. And the region of Normandy specifically was populated early on by Vikings, who are also Germanic.
     
  23. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    Winston Churchill was the madman. And Churchill wasn't motivated by his love for freedom, but by his desire to maintain the British empire's preeminence in the world, no matter the cost. Because in case you forgot, Churchill was a hardcore racist who had no problem overseeing the death of civilians. Just ask the millions of people who starved to death under Churchill's administration of Imperial India.
     
  24. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    Because the UK and France declared war on Germany first...
     
  25. Ethereal

    Ethereal Well-Known Member

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    Only in response to the UK bombing German cities. It is fairly well understood that Churchill is primarily responsible for making civilians a target during WWII. It was longstanding custom among European combatants that civilians were to be spared if possible. Churchill, in his obvious madness, was the one who decided to break that longstanding custom. And the results were utterly horrific.
     

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