Bernie Sanders' Lake House

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Nightmare515, Feb 23, 2020.

  1. Woolley

    Woolley Well-Known Member

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    Translation: I hate it when liberals have dough. I expect them all to be ascetics living in caves like Jains worshiping Siddartha. When one succeeds while trying to help others, it drives me nuts.
     
  2. struth

    struth Well-Known Member

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    Gates created the company....he also spreads his wealth all over the place...through his foundation and private spending on homes, cars, etc
     
  3. LangleyMan

    LangleyMan Well-Known Member

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    We could establish a legal line and over time that line might become definitive.
    Oh, I think many judge wealth as immoral, period.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2020
  4. YourBrainIsGod

    YourBrainIsGod Well-Known Member

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    Bernie’s message isn’t against having nice things, it’s against systemic corruption that has ruled over Washington for decades.

    There is no problem with making a good living. The problem comes with buying elections.
     
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  5. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    No I don't have answers and I'm not the one who's obligated to have them because I'm not the one making these statements.

    As I stated in the OP, I respect consistency and non hypocrisy. I am by no means a climate change alarmist or activist or whatever term we wish to use to describe. However I openly praised that Greta girl on this forum a number of times. I didn't praise her for her speech nor her beliefs, I think they are radical and completely unrealistic and coming from the mouth of a little kid (coached by adults) who doesn't understand how the real world actually works. I praised her because when I did more research I found out that this kid actually believes in her own message so much that she takes a damn sail boat around in order to not use airplanes which require massive amounts of fossil fuels which are damaging to the health of the planet.

    Hold the most radical positions you want, I don't care, but walk the walk and remain consistent and do not be a hypocrite. Do not expect me nor anyone else to change when you yourself are not changing. Do not continuously make statements and apparently hold beliefs about income inequality and the immorality of 500,000 homeless Americans when you yourself have a $570,000 vacation home.

    I have also said it plenty of times before that I respect Bernie more than the rest of the Democrats because at least he is more honest about who he is than the rest of them. He's a self described socialist and not ashamed of it. Sure he lies through his teeth like the rest of politicians in America but he's at least more upfront and honest than his colleagues who hide behind their true intentions out of fear of being unpopular. Bernie was the first one out of this bunch to just flat out say yeah I'm gonna raise all of your taxes, you too middle class. He proceeded that with "but...healthcare costs etc", but at least he said it unlike the rest of the flat out liars like Warren who refused to say it out of fear of that being snipped into a sound bite and used to destroy her.

    He's far from honest, but he's more honest than the rest of them. But this whole lakehouse of his seems contradictory to what he stands for which was the point of this thread.
     
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  6. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    More accurate translation easily understood by actually reading the quoted OP: I hate it when people seemingly have a problem with those who have dough when they themselves have dough because it's hypocritical.
     
  7. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    True but I don't think that is the sentiments of many Bernie supporters. At least not the ones who have contributed to this thread.
     
  8. Aquarius

    Aquarius Well-Known Member

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    It's all one rigged Jewish play to make goyim look bad anyways. Evil goyim billionaire Donald Trump vs man of the people jew who wants to give everyone free stuff
     
  9. JCS

    JCS Well-Known Member Donor

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    I was hoping you would google those questions yourself to find the answers. But decided to post the answers for you, as I'm sure you won't bother doing the research.

    <<< PART 1 of 2 >>>​

    How much money did Trump inherit from daddy?
    How many businesses has Trump bankrupted?
    How many Trump business ventures failed?
    How much debt is Trump in?
    How much money did Trump borrow from banks, but lost within a span of less than a decade?
    How many times has Trump been sued?

    <<< END OF PART 1 of 2 >>>
     
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  10. JCS

    JCS Well-Known Member Donor

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    <<< PART 2 of 2 >>>
    How many times has he been fined for business fraud? What about charity fraud?
    How many times has Trump stiffed his workers & contractors?
    How many illegals has Trump hired (and also not paid)?
    How many counts of conflicts of interest has Trump committed while in Office?
    How much have taxpayers had to foot to pay for Trump's golf outings thus far?
    <<< END >>>​
     
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  11. JCS

    JCS Well-Known Member Donor

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    All you have to do is google Bernie's accomplishments and/or bio. It's all there. I've posted this stuff already elsewhere.
     
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  12. JCS

    JCS Well-Known Member Donor

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    Already posted the proof for you. Do you know how to google?
     
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  13. JCS

    JCS Well-Known Member Donor

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    Seven bills were enacted.
     
  14. JCS

    JCS Well-Known Member Donor

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    Bernie's passion has been politics from day one...so much so that he didn't care about living in squalor as he sought political office. All the while being poor, he also didn't sponge off govt welfare programs. He was never interested in money...but about seeking a meaningful pursuit in life.

    Hell, anyone can flip burgers or be an office drone...which is what most people do...or even try to start a business. But how many out there are willing to live like a church mouse & to forgo the comforts of modern living as they diligently pursue a more meaningful existence?
     
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  15. JCS

    JCS Well-Known Member Donor

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    He sponsored 7 bills that were enacted...not 3. What you need to understand is that it's not easy to get a bill passed...and it's especially difficult if the proposed bill/resolution/amendment is one that's progressive.

    Considering the fact that most congressmen are pro-establishment corporate shills, it's far easier to get a bill passed that benefits the rich...and harder for one that benefits the working class. Bernie would have thousands of bills with his name on it were he able to get them passed.

    Bernie has been very busy and earned his money in politics. He's sponsored/co-sponsored over 7100 bills/resolutions/amendments...and was even nicknamed "The Amendment King" for getting more amendments passed than any other congressman. He is trying...but he's up against strong opposition & resistance from every branch of govt.

    :roflol::roflol::roflol:
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
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  16. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Used the Quote tool to address these points since I want to try and resolve the appearance of hypocrisy.

    Being wealthy is immoral if the wealth was derived by EXPLOITATION.

    Being wealthy is moral if the wealth was derived WITHOUT exploitation.

    Is Bernie an immoral hypocrite given that he has NOT exploited anyone to obtain his own modest measure of wealth? Must he sell his wife's lake house and give the money to those who are now HOMELESS because of the GREED and EXPLOITATION of those who are immoral?

    Or is the answer to RAISE TAXES on the immoral WEALTH that was derived from EXPLOITATION that resulted in those people being homeless?

    Bernie's position is CONSISTENT with his own lifestyle. He does not condemn those who have become wealthy through HONEST means. What he is advocating is the RETURN of the wealth that was dishonestly STOLEN from hardworking middle class Americans.

    The single biggest driver of wealth INEQUALITY is INCOME inequality!

    We the People need to REGULATE corporations so that EVERYONE who puts in an 8 hour day is paid a LIVING WAGE! That single regulation will end the CYCLE of EXPLOITATION that is the cause of our current problems.

    A Living Wage ensures that hardworking Americans can afford to pay all of the bills in the area where they live AND be able to save for retirement and other expenses like college, etc, etc.

    No one supports Living Wage regulations! :eek:

    The taxes that Bernie will impose on the wealthy will provide for the things that make it possible to work for a living. People with children need affordable child care in order to be able to go to work. If they were paid a living wage that would be a bill that they could pay. But since they are NOT being paid a living wage using taxes on the wealthy to pay for affordable child care is the means by which we eliminate the INCOME INEQUALITY.

    In essence no one will support any regulations that force corporations to pay living wages so the alternative is to tax the wealthy to supplement the pittance in wages that are being paid so as to achieve the same end goal.

    You cannot force corporations to behave morally but you can use taxation to reset the IMBALANCE caused by corporate immorality.

    Not a perfect solution but better than the current corporate death spiral of impoverishing the middle class.
     
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  17. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    I certainly understand Bernie's position on wealth better after having this discussion. As I said before my question regarding this entire thread was a genuine question trying to better understand what I believed to by a hypocritical stance by Sanders and his supporters.

    Before I was under the impression that Bernie Sanders and his followers simply believed it immoral in itself that anybody could have massive wealth. I wasn't aware that this wasn't actually the case. I am not ashamed to admit my own ignorance and incorrect thinking about a subject. I was wrong, and based on the feedback I received from yourself and others in this thread I understand the actual truth behind Bernie's viewpoints on wealth.

    I am no Bernie fan, I mean at all, but as I have also said numerous times before I do respect the man for his honestly for who he actually is unlike his counterparts. I simply like to know the actual facts everything I can and I am more than willing to sit down and have a discussion with those whom I disagree with. I believe myself a fair and honest enough person to at least hear folks out and get the raw untainted views of people instead of the heavily fabricated and exaggerated narratives ABOUT said people. All I know about "Bernie Bros" is what I read about and see in the media which paints a pretty hostile picture of children simply wanting everything to be free and hating rich people.

    I knew that wasn't entirely the case, stereotypes are never 100% accurate but there is usually some truth beneath the stereotype. I am rational enough to know that the Bernie movement is not comprised of nothing but lazy young adults who think work sucks and that there are legitimate folks in this campaign who don't think like that. So I wanted to have a discussion with those folks who could better explain to me the TRUTH behind what Bernie Sanders and his campaign is about and not the fabricated and embellished narrative that I see and hear every day in the media.

    What I learned from this thread is that Bernie is in fact not a hypocrite because my ASSUMPTION of what his ideology WAS regarding wealth isn't what his ideology actually IS. I am honest enough to admit that which was the primary goal of this thread in the first place.

    I'm still no fan of Bernie Sanders, but I appreciate raw unfiltered facts over fabricated opinions regardless of whether or not I agree with the issue. It doesn't change my personal view of Bernie Sanders as a viable President of the United States but it changes my view of Bernie Sanders and his supporters of the hypocrisy I used to believe they held in this particular regard.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
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  18. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Your forthright honesty is appreciated as is your willingness to be open minded and learn from others.

    While I was focused on the explaining the basis for Bernie's position I did not deal with some of the disinformation that exists around his campaign and the "Bernie Bros".

    Yes, there are some extremist Bernie supporters who are just as odious and embarrassing as those who support the criminal IMPOTUS. I do not condone either their inflammatory rhetoric or any violence they may engage in. They do NOT represent Bernie or his campaign.

    That aside there is a massive amount of disinformation out there about Socialism and Bernie himself. There is even a slur about Bernie having a "child fetish" which is based upon something he wrote many decades ago about small children playing on a beach while naked. I can recall that was how I went to the beach as a small child. Norms and standards change over time and exhuming things like that and using them to cast aspersions on someone's character is both dishonest and disingenuous.

    Socialism as understood during the Cold War is no longer around. What we have today is Social Democracy which embraces the positive aspects of socialism with the positive aspects of regulated capitalism. The claims that Bernie will turn our nation into another Venezuela are just hyperbolic fear mongering disinformation.

    Bernie is far from perfect when it comes to being the choice for the next POTUS. I would much prefer Warren if I had to make the final determination but I don't. For all his many faults Bernie is way superior to the criminal IMPOTUS in every respect. Granted that is a low bar to get over but Bernie is clearing it by a significant margin.

    To be brutally frank I will vote for ANYONE but the criminal IMPOTUS just to be rid of him. However I am comfortable enough with Bernie to not be in that situation. Get back to me if the DNC is dumb enough to try and screw Bernie over twice in a row.
     
  19. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    The net worth of Donald Trump, the 45th president of the United States, is not publicly known. Various news organizations have attempted to estimate Trump's wealth, including Forbes, which put it at about US$3.10 billion as of 10 February 2020.[1] Over the years, Trump's public declarations of his wealth have often been in the $50 billion range, far higher than contemporaneous estimates of it by news organizations.
     
  20. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    What post #?
     
  21. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    I for one never fault folks for their supporters. I am a Trump supporter but I don't blame Trump if he has white supremacists who endorse him and I also don't blame Bernie if he has legit Marxists or Communists or whatever horrid types of folks who support him. Regardless of who it is there will always be radical nutcases who toss their hats into someones campaign and I can't blame them for that. Barack Obama, someone who I voted for in 08, had the support of radical black nationalists and plenty of other subgroups that I, as a black man myself, were horrified to hear about. But that's not his fault, nobody is at fault for who supports them in my opinion. Mayor Pete is a fool for trying to claim Bernie is responsible for the small percentage of his radical "Bernie Bros". It was a talking point in an effort to win an election, nothing more.

    See the bolded is the main point that I want to understand more clearly. I'll openly admit that I believe socialism to be pure evil and my opinion of that stems from be being a history buff. I'm not a Boomer and I wasn't alive during the height of the Cold War but I am a history buff and everything I have read about Socialism and Communism seems to be absolutely terrible for any society that tries to implement it. I am inherently afraid of giving up the healthcare system to the government as well as large parts of the economy. From what I have seen in the past that doesn't work well at all.

    I understand what Bernie is trying to do, and to be completely honest I believe the man is genuine in his sentiments about why he wants to do it that way. I even openly defended Bernie recently when it was blasted all over the media talking about how he supports Castro's Cuba. I believe myself an honest and open enough person to not just flat out bash the guy for everything even though I sincerely do not want to see him as POTUS. I think what he was trying to say was that yes Castro's Cuba was a terrible policy but even among the terrible policy there WERE SOME things that were positive such as the increased literary rate. I get that. I am a military guy and I'm a history guy. Nazi Germany was a horrible place that words themselves cannot really describe accurately. However, the WAR MACHINE that Nazi Germany was able to create a mere 2 decades after a devastating defeat In WW1 was admirable to me. Did they use it for anything good? Hell no. Am I praising Nazi Germany? For the love of God no. But I can strip it all down from the emotions as a rational history and military guy and say yes the Wehrmacht that Germany was able to create after WW1 was admirable from a military perspective? Yes it was. (And no I am not trying to compare what Bernie said about Cuba to what I am saying about the Wehrmacht, just an example).

    My question is I am terrified of the broadening of Socialism style policies in the US that Bernie wants to implement. Yes I understand that we already have some types of socialist policies in place, but I don't want any more. I am worried that if he is elected President my retirement savings (which are tied to the stock market) will tank overnight. I am worried that his various proposals have been shown to be literally un-affordable by economists from both Democrat and Republican sides by a long shot. I am worried about giving that much control of society to the federal government for the aforementioned reasons based on the results I've seen in history.

    I really don't believe that Bernie is trying to turn the US into the USSR, but I believe he may set the stage for us to turn into something like that. Are my concerns unfounded? Of course everybody from the largely Democrat MSM to Republicans are all saying Bernie will turn the US into the USSR and he loves those people and even honeymooned in Moscow during the Cold War, etc.

    What is the actual TRUTH behind this? And quite frankly do I have an actual reason to be as worried as I am about him?
     
  22. Tim15856

    Tim15856 Well-Known Member

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    This is the link I used to come up with the 3 bills.
    http://wafflesatnoon.com/bernie-sanders-bills-passed/

    Laugh all you want, a socialist millionaire with three homes is as corrupt as it gets.
    https://www.foxnews.com/media/peter-schweizer-bernie-sanders-wife-campaign-money
     
  23. struth

    struth Well-Known Member

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    Yep, he’s got nothing done
     
  24. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    No, you have no more reason to be worried about Bernie than those who worried that the criminal IMPOTUS would start WW3!

    And that is an excellent example to use to explain why your worries are unfounded. There have had TWO occasions where the criminal IMPOTUS could have ignited a shooting war between ourselves and Iran. Both were as a result of his lack of understanding of the consequences of his impulses and his appalling lack of decision making skills and knowledge of how to deal with foreign nations.

    In BOTH instances an armed conflict was avoided by those around him that managed to figuratively give him a time out while negotiating with their opposite numbers in Iran to avert the impending disaster.

    While I doubt that Bernie has those same egregious shortcomings your concerns about his more "extreme socialism" will be dealt with in a similar manner. If he proposed something that would tank the stock market overnight and wipe out your retirement savings those around him would implement a similar time out strategy. They would tell him that they are going to take it under advisement and will come back with proposals that would be viable alternatives to achieve his goal WITHOUT the consequences of a tanked stock market and the wiping out of retirement 401k's.

    TBH your 401k is in far more jeopardy from the unholy alliance between the Wall Street Casino Banksters and the fiscal malfeasance of the GOP. Had you been someone who was retiring at the end of 2008 you would have been effectively wiped out.

    So, no, you have nothing to fear from that aspect of Bernie because one person does not get to change everything overnight.

    What is far more likely to occur are what I call interim disruptions to the status quo. None of them will have long term negative impacts but they will result in a great deal of wailing and gnashing of teeth. Yes, some things must be changed but there won't be any dire consequences of the type that you are concerned about.
     
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  25. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    The FACTS prove you wrong again!
     

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