Navy Cruiser Seizes Huge Iranian Arms Cache in Arabian Sea

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Trump Gurl, Feb 16, 2020.

  1. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Given your comments - there is no way you have a clue what you are talking about. 100% Assad is the lesser evil - by leaps and bounds.

    Virginia Senator Thanks Syrian President Bashar Al Assad for Saving the Lives of Christians
    Open Letter of U.S. Senator Richard H. Black to President Bashar al-Assad Acknowledges US Support to Terrorists

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/virgi...ad-for-saving-the-lives-of-christians/5384338

    “My personal thanks to the Syrian Arab Army and Air Force for protecting all patriotic Syrians, including religious minorities, raped, tortured, kidnapped and beheaded at the hands of the foreign jihadists”…

    I cannot explain how Americans, who suffered so grievously at the hands of al-Qaeda, were tricked into supporting the jihadists.

    But I do know that many U.S. officials disagree with equipping and training the terrorists who penetrate your borders from the Kingdom of Jordan and through Turkey. Senator Richard H. Black of Virginia, 13th District

    Did you not hear this on CNN/FOX ? - surprise surprise.

    The people fighting for Assad fought because they wanted to keep Syria nation free from the Strict Sharia Nightmare that the radical Islamist Jihadists wanted to - and did create.
     
  2. Gilos

    Gilos Well-Known Member

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    Wow...please tell me what does Mr. Richard H. Black think about the Gaza situation and what does the future hold for us,

    I'll say again, that son of a bitch is a lesser evil not a hero of any sort, he currently kills militants and civilians alike in a way that would make you jump out of your skin if applied in Gaza so spare me your "great knowledge" you are exactly like the rest of us.

    And here is my reply to yet another slogan you use : the ppl of Syria are dead, refugees or fighting each other.
     
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  3. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    Al Nusra has severed ties with the parent organization. If you want to talk about al Nusra, talk about al Nusra, not al Qaeda.

    No issue. I don't enjoy reading Christian Post articles, they lack appeal. I like Clarion Project, despite their bias. No ad hom fallacy here, move along.

    Of course they did. After spending millions on Assad for nothing, they must have been seething with rage.

    Ever heard of the Shabiha?

    https://ctc.usma.edu/shabiha-militias-and-the-destruction-of-syria/

    The author of the quoted article had lived in Syria for five years, from 2007 to 2012.
     
  4. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    They didn't "earn" or deserve what they got. Their leadership and certain of their people did, but we didn't "get" even close to as many of them as the innocents we killed and most of those guilty ones got away scot-free with only a bare handful even being pursued years later.

    I wonder if the taking of the Embassy was ever purported to be even possibly a preventative measure against the CIA doing the same thing again. On thinking the matter through it does seem a logical thing for Iran to do given the past history of Iran, our relationship with the Shah and our relationship with the Ayatollah, but I have never seen it actually suggested overtly, has anyone here?

    (Or does anyone who has studied the matter just assume the everyone realizes that was actually the case but nobody says so because there's no evidence. I can be abysmally dense at times)

    There is the fact that the Shah had become a rather brutally oppressive ruler by this time, and I remember he had been something of a model Enlightened Despot at the beginning but that only explains why we didn't defend him at first in 1979.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2020
  5. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What does what Black think about Gaza have to do with a comparison of the Islamist Jihadists and the people fighting for Assad ?

    You were arguing previously that Assad was not a lesser evil. Now you are saying he is - so we are in agreement. I never said Assad was a good guy. To me it is not about Assad but what the people want.

    Then you want to offhand claim you have some great knowledge - make some claims - and give no support for those claims. Regardless- I agree that Assad does dirty deeds - so you are preaching to the choir - but still need to quantify your claim.

    Israel does some dirty deeds in the Occupied territories as well - that does not make Netenyahoo as bad as Assad.

    The question on the Table is whether or not Assad is as bad as El Saud. The people of Syria have chosen Assad over El Saud - that much we can say.

    El Saud is a strict sharia totalitarian nightmare state. No Christian Churches or Synagogues you will find in the land of Saud - or any of the other gulf states under the bridal of El Saud. You can find Churches of other faiths - and people who attend these churches - in Syria.

    In Syria you are not killed for apostasy - like in El Saud - nor for adultery, homosexuality - and so on. Women wear skirts and proper bathing suits .. alcohol and dancing in bars... It is not remotely comparable to El Saud.

    Assad has Christian generals in his army - 50% of Assad's regular Army is Sunni - Even the Sunni's were fighting against the Evil El Saud

    Guess those Sunni Soldiers must have like the freedoms they have under Assad. Any Jew living in Syria would also be fighting for Assad rather than be kicked out of the country by the Islamists - who wanted to turn Syria into an even darker version of the El Saud nightmare.

    You are coming from some jaded partisan perspective - don't back up your claims - and I am not making sense of what your claims are half the time.

    Then - when I present "evidence - rational - reason" that backs my claim - you completely ignore and/or fail to address my points. Too busy are you twirling around in some fallacious rant ?!
     
  6. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    1) Your claim is laughable - and even if the claim is True - 2) that you would make this statement is war[ed and bizarre given the context of the conversation.

    1) So what if Al Nusra severed ties - The claim on the table is that Al Nusra bad guys - part of a larger group of bad guys during the conflict in Syria.

    When are you claiming that Al Nusra severe ties with Al Qaeda - (or was this just another case of Islamist extremists rebranding themselves to get arms and support ?)

    Here is Gabbard refuting your claim -
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1233740452182024193

    But what difference does it make if Al Nusra has severed ties with Al Qaeda ? They have not changed their Islamist Extremist ideology - ISIS severed ties with Al Qaeda as well. This is meaningless with respect the fact that they are extremist Islamists -

    2) what does any of this have to do with the 2011 to 2017 timeframe ?

    What a concerted effort in thought avoidance you are engaging in . You have been reduced to meaningless gibberish - grasping at the most nonsensical of straws.

    "Al Nusra severed ties with Al Qaeda recently" who cares ? This does not change the fact that they were allied with Al Qaeda a phase of the conflict which is now over.
     
  7. Gilos

    Gilos Well-Known Member

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    That everyone got an opinion about something and we all see the parts we want to see.
    Maybe I had a typo somewhere, I meant he was better to Syrians than ISIS but that wasnt always the case of two choices, we've been over that already.....
    I used to object your last line "its what the ppl want" ill correct it to "its want the survivors want", while I do blame him for his part of the war and the fact there is hardly a country and ppl anymore but more survivors - we disagree I know.
    I dont....
    Agree
    I don't know about that but in my book Assad at least is Syrian, as an Israeli I wouldnt want to see drastic changes like a saudi Syria or Iranian ofc....
    You had me at hello....
    OK
    Today there is no other choice than Assad IMO, others might disagree, but it wasn't like that from the start, again IMO!

    For the record, I heard one of the rebel leaders in Idlib saying on TV that they want to free entire Syria so I understand Assad, he cant allow this pocket to swell and be a terror hub for him, that said there are many civilians there that I guess would rather die than surrender to him after all their families lost. so that needs to be addressed with negotiations.
    Dont know what a jaded partisan is but it sounds bad....
     
  8. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This was about two choices. There were other players - such as the Kurds but the Kurds were not part of the anti Assad Islamist Jihadists.

    The moderate presence - which was not significant to begin with - was gone in the first few months of the conflict. Heck - the moderates were gone prior to armed insurrection starting. The radical Islamists had taken over the protest movement prior to armed insurrection - were telling the Christians to either join the protest movement or leave the country.

    https://www.christianpost.com/news/...om-anti-government-protestors-in-syria-50104/

    The anti Assad forces were the worst kind of Islamist scum - rape, forced marriage head chopping , strict sharia dark age style, genocide, war crimes, crimes against humanity.

    It was that - or Assad. You are right that some people did not have a choice. Those were the people that happened to be unfortunate enough to be living in one of the numerous cities taken over by the Islamist Jihadists.

    Today there is no other choice than Assad IMO, others might disagree, but it wasn't like that from the start, again IMO!

    For the record, I heard one of the rebel leaders in Idlib saying on TV that they want to free entire Syria so I understand Assad, he cant allow this pocket to swell and be a terror hub for him, that said there are many civilians there that I guess would rather die than surrender to him after all their families lost. so that needs to be addressed with negotiations.
     
  9. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    Asking why al Nusra must be mentioned separately from al Qaeda is mind boggling. It proves you don't understand the situation in Syria at all.

    While the latest incarnation of al Qaeda in Iraq - ISIS - has been busy conquering territories, robbing banks, and selling oil to Assad, al Nusra fought against Assad and, more importantly, Hezbollah, the proxy army of Saudis' archenemy Iran. Its function was totally different, it was useful.

    Lumping al Qaeda, al Nusra, and ISIS together proves you don't have a clue. Yes, they're all Islamists, yes, they're all despicable terrorists, yes, they should be dispatched to their beloved virgins in Paradise yesterday. But from a Saudi perspective, those three organizations had different goals, different activities, and most important - one could be used against Assad and Iran, unlike the others. That's why the distinction between al Nusra and its parent organization al Qaeda in Iraq is paramount.

    As I already told you, alliances in the Middle East are not what a civilized westerner would expect. At all.
     
  10. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You have no clue what you are talking about - and are desperately trying to move the goalposts and other fallacious gibberish to maintain your denial of reality.

    For the purposes of the conflict in Syria for the first 5 years of the conflict - Al Nusra was part of Al Qaeda - and these and other groups were fighting on the same side of the conflict as ISIS. They were all part of the anti Assad Proxy army - all having the same goal "all despicable terrorists"

    Which is the point I have been arguing - and you have been claiming was not true.. Trying to come up with some "Moderates Rebels" .. now you are saying there were all "despicable terrorists" which is what I have been telling you all along.

    The Saudi perspective was that it wanted to control Syria - and get rid of the evil "Secularism" - the same desire of all its spawn - be it Al Qaeda, ISIS, or Al Nusra.

    Now that you understand that this was a terrorist proxy army .. through and through .. you then should finally realize that arming these nutjobs - with tens of thousands of tons of sophisticated military equipment - was an extremely evil thing to do.
     
  11. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    There are more than two sides in the conflict, every one of them with its own agenda.

    Al Nusra fought against Assad, Hezbollah, and Iran. Saudi agenda.

    ISIS in Syria fought mainly against Kurds. Turkish agenda.

    ISIS in Iraq fought against Kurds, massacred and terrorized civilians. Turkish and Iranian agendas.

    ISIS threatened Saudi Arabia. Turkish and Iranian agendas.

    Both al Nusra and ISIS hail from the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood. Qatari agenda.

    Both al Nusra and ISIS spread Salafi ideology, an extreme form of Sunni Islam. Saudi, Qatari, and Emirates' agenda.

    If you can't see the different sides and their different goals, and how the different non-state actors in the conflict had been used and manipulated by one side or another, you don't understand the Middle East at all.
     
  12. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are making stuff up. ISIS did a heck of a lot of fighting against the Syrian Army . Many of the cities that were held by ISIS were liberated by the Syrian Army - Major city where they fought the Kurds was in Raqqa - and that was after the Syrian army had taken most of the other cities.

    The rest of your factual tidbits do not change the fact that the Proxy army we sent against Assad was Islamist Jihadist - be it Al Qaeda, Al Nusra, ISIS, Islamic Front and numerous others.
     
  13. Pisa

    Pisa Well-Known Member

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    :D

    https://cisac.fsi.stanford.edu/mappingmilitants/profiles/islamic-state#text_block_18356

    Al Nusra, al Qaeda and ISIS -different entities, with different goals.

    ISIS fought against everyone, including other Islamist groups and rebels. Please explain why would the US support a group that fought against all the other groups supported by the US.
     
  14. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Of course ISIS and Al Qaeda are different entities - and while some of their goals are different - many are the same.
    The fact of the matter is that ISIS and Al Qaeda/Al Nusra made up the two main factions that were fighting against Assad - united in the goal to bring the Saudi Inspired strict sharia nightmare to Syria.

    It was the proxy army led by Al Qaeda - and the groups that later formed ISIS - who we armed, supplied and supported.

    The fact that they had differences - does not change this fact.
     

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