Part 38 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Mitt Ryan, Mar 30, 2017.

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  1. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Experts in the biological sciences point out that a population that is cut to less than 2,000 is certain to go extinct.

    So, animals taken 2 by 2, killing all but 8, etc. marks this story as an allegory.
     
  2. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    And remember, the first thing Noah did when he got off that stinking ark was to kill most of the animals for a giant barbecue.
     
  3. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What is nothing? Are the Laws of Physics immutable?

    There is no principle of physics that says physical laws or constants have to be the same everywhere and always. This could drive you a bit mad. How can you possibly do science if the rules keep changing? But if you are a scientist, you have to face up to that possibility – and you have a responsibility to check out if it is true.

    https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20120329-can-the-laws-of-physics-change
     
  4. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    But it is scientifically, hydrologically and gravitationally impossible for the flood to have occurred as the Bible says.
     
  5. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    I've been on paid vacation...lol so no, my absence here wasn't because I was physically sick with some dreaded disease. I see you haven't changed much...still the same insane crazy guy as before...j/k...lol
     
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  6. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    God did reveal Himself to Moses and his fellow Israelites. It's all there written in Scripture for anyone to read. And I don't mean that they saw him physically but they knew He was leading them through Moses. They witnessed His mighty powers when He parted the Red Sea for them to escape Pharaoh's army.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
  7. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    A whole herd of people saw God and had a picnic with him on the mountain. Read the fairy tale.
     
  8. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Nope, once again, as I've stated above, moral values would only be subjective if moral values were the result of popular vote, then they would only govern humans because humans had decided to allow them to govern them.

    However, moral values are not subjective in this sense, in the sense that they are the complete invention of the minds of those they govern. If they were subjective in this sense, Hitler's Germany would be no less moral than any other society, and this is not the case.
    Thus, moral values are not subjective in this sense. Instead, they are objective in the sense that they govern all humans, at all times, regardless of those individuals' approvals.
     
  9. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Before I answer your question, "What does "world" mean" Show me the exact language used by your particular bible where the verses in Scripture says all the world was taxed by Rome, and all the world had heard the Gospel.
     
  10. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Luke 2:1
    And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.

    Acts 19:27
    the great goddess Diana should be despised, and her magnificence should be destroyed, whom all Asia and the world worshippeth.

    There's another one that comes to mind about the Gospel being preached and heard by all the world AT THAT TIME, but this will do.
     
  11. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    It appears the verse in Scripture you presented, "And it came to pass in those days that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed' comes from the King James Bibles.

    The expression "all the world" in ancient times is referring to the Roman Empire.

    The modern countries of Portugal, Spain, Andorra, England, France, Monaco, Luxembourg, Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Italy, San Marino, Malta, Austria and the Czech Republic. In addition, Slovakia, Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Hungary, Yugoslavia, Albania, Greece, Macedonia, Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Syria, Iraq, Kuwait, Cyprus, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Sudan, Lybia, Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco were all part of the Roman Empire.

    Note below the NLT Bible which is a modern day Bible uses "the Roman Empire" instead of "all the world" in the verse of Luke 2:1. It also says a census should be taken which is a way for the Roman Empire to know who to tax.

    "At that time the Roman emperor, Augustus, decreed that a census should be taken throughout the Roman Empire" Luke 2:1 NLT

    And your other verse in Scripture from Acts 19:27 "the great goddess Diana should be despised, and her magnificence should be destroyed, whom all Asia and the world worshippeth."

    Asia is, of course, the proconsular province, and the “world” is used conventionally, as in Luke 2:1, for the Roman empire.
     
  12. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    I'm not arguing that morality only exists as God given but what I'm saying is that objective morality is God given, otherwise it is subjective morality given by a result of the popular vote, or the social consensus of the day/times.

    Case in point, a generation or two ago, homosexuality, divorce, and adultery were still not accepted, even considered sinful. Nowadays, both homosexuality and divorce are normal and adultery isn’t as stigmatized as it once was.

    It should be easy to see that if social consensus is our moral compass, then we have built our morality on a foundation of shifting sand. Our God given objective morality doesn't shift in otherwords it stays the same, homosexuality, divorce, adultery are still sinful acts.
     
  13. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It was a tax on Property - so what was Joseph doing in Bethlehem Ephratah? His property was in Nazareth. David had been dead 1000 years and what had happened to Bethlehem and the Hebrews - including exile - meant it almost certain that he would have no property in Bethlehem - several days journey from Nazareth. Bethlehem in Zebulon is more likely.
     
  14. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's true. "All the world" meant different things to different cultures.
    Sumer was the "whole world" in Noah's day. The sky reached down to
    the horizon, and that horizon was at the limits of their little world.
    But when people translate "whole world" to mean, say, "China" they
    miss something interesting - back then these cultures/nations/empires
    really did think they were the whole world - in a very literal sense.

    But in Roman times the "world" meant the Empire, but oddly, they were
    fully aware of Africa, the Barbarians of Germania and the hated Parthians
    of Babylon, for instance.

    So I see the Noah story as being a flood of Sumerian proportions. It was
    recorded by the Sumerians too - or the bible at that time WAS Sumerian.
     
  15. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    It pays to read all of the biblical verses that mention Bethlehem in order to understand why it was the Jesus character's birthplace. You will get a better understanding of the fairy tale once read all of the verses = https://www.biblegateway.com/quicks...;CEV;TLB;ERV;NLT&searchtype=all&resultspp=500
     
  16. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You know, I think the story of the Carthage General Hannibal was a "fairy tale"
    too. I mean, how could a man lead an African army, equipped with war elephants,
    across the Alps and then invade Rome itself? There are two accounts of this man.
    If seven people writing about Jesus still made the story a "fairy tale" then let's take
    apart all strange history accounts.
     
  17. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Do you really believe that a Jewish lich is going to save your "soul"?
     
  18. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What's a "Jewish lich" ?
     
  19. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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  20. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Okay, I get you.
    Yes, the Jesus character. The MESSIAH spoken of throughout the Old Testament.
    He who would come first as Redeemer and be rejected of His own people. The one
    who was to be the lamb slain for His people. But in rejecting Him the nation of Israel
    would end and the Jews would go into exile, captivity, subjection and death - until the
    Gentiles time is fulfilled and then the Jews would return to their nation again.
    So sure, Jesus is "Jewish" but one whom the Jews rejected because they wanted a
    kingly Messiah. But their own book tells us that when the Messiah as King appears
    the Jews will mourn because they will see He is also the lowly one they once crucified.
     
  21. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Those guys sure knew how to spin BS.
     
  22. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    For sure. One of the first was Jacob. His son was Joseph who was a slave in Egypt.
    Jacob blessed his 12 sons as he was dying. He gave particular attention to his son
    Judah. He said there would one day be a Hebrew nation, complete with monarchy
    and law. And the kings would be of Judah. But all this would end with the coming of
    the Messiah, also of the line of Judah, in whom the Gentiles would believe.
    That's not bad, coming from a guy in Egypt in the Bronze Age when Jews were just
    wandering Hebrews. Literally, you just can't make that up. After the death of Jesus
    Christianity spread throughout the known world, and the Jews went into exile and
    slavery for nearly 2,000 years. But as promised by Jesus - they would one day
    return to take back their nation.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2020
  23. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Literally you can make it up. The scribes of the 7th century BCE during the Babylonian exile made up a story around known events and places. They inter wove this story with characters. It's certainly a good story but no evidence for it at all. And they made a mistake. They put Israel in Egypt for 400+ years and forgot to mention the 10 generations (40 years per generation) that occurred during that period. Thus we have incomplete genealogies in Matthew and Luke. The simple answer is that the Hebrews were never in Egypt at all. They were a tribe in Palestine who later joined with other tribes to throw out their Egyptian Rulers. .
     
  24. Poohbear

    Poohbear Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's an interesting theory that bit by bit is getting tattered.
    Many people in Babylonian times did not know what the
    culture was like in Bronze Age times. Bit by bit archaeology
    has uncovered this culture.
    We now know that the Jews were more numerous than
    archaeology suggested - being a largely nomadic tent
    dwelling people (ref Edom mines and estimation of the
    population of Edom as similar tent dwelling people - 2019)
    This tent culture, right past the time of Solomon, is suggestive
    of a nomadic society and speaks of an Exodus to me.
    We now know there is a Genetic Jew and we have the
    lineage of the Cohanim line back to Aaron, Moses' brother.
    Egypt did control Palestine in Moses day, but this was at the
    darkest time in the history of civilization - every civilization was
    overthrown (ca 1177 BC) and only Egypt survived - but was
    never the same again.
    We have evidence for Shiloh and the Levitical law being
    practiced there. Shiloh was destroyed by the Philistines and
    the Ark of the Covenant taken. No-one in Babylonian times
    would have known this without there being the Book of
    Samuel and Kings.

    etc.
     
  25. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Of course the Babylonians knew about the Bronze age. They had been around for almost a 1000 years.

    The tribe of Israel was a people in Palestine (Merneptah stele and Armana letters). They were never in Egypt itself, though Palestine was occupied by the Egyptians. They and other tribes threw the Egyptians out. 'Joshua' is supposed to have conquered the small town of Jericho (you could walk round it in 15 minutes). It lies in an earthquake zone and has been destroyed/damaged several times by earthquakes. The latest damage by earthquake was in 1926 and one recorded in the 12th century. 'Joshua' conquered 'Ai' a city known to have been destroyed by the Egyptians centuries before. In all the Bible records 3 cities being destroyed at the time. Archaeology puts the total far higher - consistent with the internal uprising - not a Hebrew invasion.

    Do you have the DNA of Aaron, or the genetics dating back that far. There is a Cohanim line - but back how far? It is mere conjecture that it goes back to Aaron. Given the same situation I can trace my extended family back to the 13th century by ancient documents, therefore my genetic makeup goes back that far. But I cannot prove anything farther back.

    If Shiloh was destroyed by the Philistines how does it appear later in the Bible as a place of worship?

    every civilization was overthrown (ca 1177 BC) and only Egypt survived - but was never the same again.

    On the contrary. The Greek civilisation was STARTING. I know the Eric Cline theory.about the collapse of civilisation.
     
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