Video shows Australian SAS soldier shooting and killing unarmed man at close range in Afghanistan

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Bush Lawyer, Mar 16, 2020.

  1. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    Bullshit
     
  2. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    Bullshit and goodbye.
     
  3. HTownMarine

    HTownMarine Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree.

    Dehumanizing somebody makes it easier to kill them.

    But I felt no ill will towards any Afgahn we met provided they were friendly to us.

    The towns that weren't friendly, obviously we didnt treat the best... but it wasnt a racist thing. It was a "you know something and you're hiding it" thing.
     
  4. Robert E Allen

    Robert E Allen Banned

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    https://www.stripes.com/news/specia...y-chat-between-marines-and-viet-cong-1.375235

    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/43155385/.../return-vietnam-meeting-formerly-faceless-foe

    These are not isolated incidents. They are common.

    How about the Christmas eve in the Arden shared between Allied and Americans?

    Think any of those Americans called the German soldiers Krauts or Huns

    Many American fighter pilots were good friends with German fighter pilots after world war one and then again after world war two..

    I rest my case..
     
  5. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    You're free to show me wrong of who actually is in the Taliban, buddy... for the past 20 years.
     
  6. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Well-Known Member Donor

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    Sublime understated response. It's a long thread - curious what your opinion is on the OP. Similarly I'm interested to know your opinion about the Clint Lorance story.
     
  7. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    On the subject of a SAS soldier telling us that his colleague's killed this unarmed brown Muslim with his hands up and everything being innocent and everything.. you responded to

    "Also i support temporary racism among troops against the people we are fighting if it helps our troops.deal with what they have to do." Post 160.

    That and your countless slurs in other post. Your support for dehumanization of others, knowing very well that this is how nazi's went at it.


    So sorry the taste of reality is sour in your mouth.
     
  8. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    First thought was... the senseless killer should be up for capital punishment.


    That guy got sentenced for 19 years for a double murder, basically. And let's put it this way. He got sentences by his fellow Americans. Such a thing over that happens hardly ever. So even though you can go like, but there are doubts / conflicting opinions of witnesses... let's be honest... the amount of evidence against him must have been sky high for him getting 19 years in a friendly court that hardly sentences anybody. Hence he should be back in jail. It's for the best for the general public. The guy is a very dangerous highly trained killing machine without a conscious in a society where mass shootings happen way too often than people like to see.

    You might keep that in mind... of that killer in the OP.
     
  9. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Well-Known Member Donor

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    Apologies it wasn't clear that I was asking HtownMarine's opinion. Yours seemed quite clear to me regarding the OP.

    Clint Lorance's war crime was chock full of shades of grey from what I watched on the Starz documentary. There was one approximately 2-4 minute cut from about 300 minutes of the documentary that revealed within about 30 minutes after the non-compliant ROE killing of the guys on the motorcycle, the documentary touched on the subsequent compliant killing of another guy slightly southwest in a field because he was using a cellphone or radio. So, not Ok to kill because of riding a motorcycle, Ok to kill if using a radio or cellphone. Thanks Petraeus for bringing the failed Vietnam era policies of counter insurgency back into combat doctrine.

    Meanwhile in the bat cave, in Nevada, no one is being charged with war crimes for drone attacks on weddings and hospitals....
     
  10. HTownMarine

    HTownMarine Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Thank you.

    I have not watched the OP. I don't need to. For one, there's no doubt in my mind that the video appears to be a soldier shooting an unarmed civilian. Secondly, without knowing all of the facts, I cant say what he did was right or wrong.

    I've seen articles condemning US helicopters drone striking children and teenagers... when those same children and teenagers are the ones planting bombs. I've seen guys fire at us until they exhaust their ammunition and then try to run. Of course we would shoot at them as they're running away because just before that, they were shooting at us... but a 30 second clip could make it seem like we are shooting an unarmed civilian.

    For all we know that guy WAS a piece of ****. Bomb maker, spotter, spy, foot soldier, doesnt matter... it wouldn't shock me at all to find out he was an enemy. Just because he didnt have a weapon doesnt mean he's not an enemy in which case I'd say... **** him. Geneva convention doesn't apply.

    On the other hand, maybe he was an innocent guy and the soldier simply wasn't in the right frame of mind, in which case, I'd say that soldier probably needs to be charged for what he did.

    But I cant say either way. I wasn't there.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
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  11. HTownMarine

    HTownMarine Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm not familiar with the Lorance incident...

    But I will say the Taliban almost exclusively used motorcycles for transportation. Many civilians did as well, but they were more often in some sort of car or van. Motorcycles arent practical for civilians because you can't haul things.

    And where I was, cell phone use during a firefight was really all the justification you needed to open fire. If you were receiving IDF, that is ALL the justification you would need.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
  12. HTownMarine

    HTownMarine Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I told you, its obvious.

    You would understand had you been there.

    Not to say that the Taliban didnt deliberately insert soldiers to undermine government forces, but by and large, we were welcomed nearly everywhere.

    Before we got there, the lived under an oppressive regime that outlawed music. Girls weren't allowed to attend school. Kids would get their index fingers cut off because their fathers were police.

    I assure you, your understanding of their attitude towards us is very wrong.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
  13. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    NP

    So what. It remains a rather novelty that a US soldier is sentenced to 19 years by the US. And he was sentenced by people who know how it is in the battlefield with that court martial. It wasn't done by some random group picked from the streets to form a jury. That does make it clear to me that the evidence against him was sky high. You do realize that he was given a pardon by a draft dodger, right? So lets be clear in who sentenced him and how qualified they are to do that, and how not qualified the person is to think different.... when thinking about... should this guy be in jail for a long time.

    Personally... I haven't seen that docu. But let me guess. It's not about how freaking qualified those people are and what their experience is on the ground that gave him that sentence. I googled such people up in the past. They are the real deal. I read it all starts with how the guys childhood was so nice. Tears man, tears.

    Nothing new. The US retaliates against things. You aware of that? Why is it, that say.. there can not be a retaliation in return as in... a 9/11? It's just 3000 civilians who died. Or not even. The US, as the occupying force in Iraq back in the day, was officially responsible for the lives of the civilians. An equivalent of a 9/11 happened there every month while the US was responsible for their safety. It's not even a case if they tried to stop it and how much effort they put in it, simple thing is... the US is simply responsible for the safety of the civilians ones they were the occupying power. Such is the law. The US accepted this. Signed the Geneva Convention. So don't shoot the messenger. And you know, all them covert operations of the US in the middle east in the past... all the way to say the coup against the democratically elected government of Iran. You bet ya that the republicans would have a field day for life if the democrats were paid by Russia to make a violent coup against Trump... to than have a successful counter coup, by storming the Russian embassy. You think an American would care what Russia thinks if they stormed the Russian embassy over such a thing and killed everybody there? Heck no.

    But most of all. You think those people in the ME do not know their own history and what massacres the US committed and what they are responsible for? The US thinks retaliation is fine. So you know. Accept when it happens as well.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
  14. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Well-Known Member Donor

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    You're wound a bit tight mate and you also seem to be extrapolating my opinion well beyond anything I've ever stated on this forum or in this thread.
     
  15. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Nobody needs to be there, to know that the Taliban are basically locals.
     
  16. Grey Matter

    Grey Matter Well-Known Member Donor

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    No doubt you have some valid points here and I will most certainly defer to a combat vet's explanation of what it is being in the fog of war.

    What are your thoughts on whether or not we should still be there for, say, another ten years?
     
  17. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The matter have been referred to the Australian Federal Police which means they will investigate by the book. If they compare the incident to what happens in Australia's streets the soldier will do time in jail, if not their findings may be the same as the internal investigation.

    What will be different is that the investigation is likely to be comprehensive, which means that if they find out who stole and distributed the video, they may well throw the book at them too. The AFP is at the very least thorough, personally I think they are very good although I still believe an investigation such as this should be dealt with internally, by those who takes the environment and circumstances of war into account.
     
  18. Bush Lawyer

    Bush Lawyer Well-Known Member

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    The killer has now been 'suspended' from the SAS. And, the Defence Minister has referred the entire incident to the Australian Federal Police for external investigation.
     
  19. Russ103

    Russ103 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  20. 3link

    3link Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The shooter, while standing over the victim, asked his fellow soldier 2-3 times "want me to drop this c---?" That seems a little less like nerves and a lot more like premeditation.
     
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  21. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

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    We're talking about the one single incident, not wider attitudes whatever they may be, you WANT to besmirch these heroes due to your political agenda that is very clear, one day you should put your life on the line and try to makes some tough decisions.
     
  22. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

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    Our guys are a liberating force who wanted to introduce freedom and democracy, the Taliban are only one faction in Afghanistan and the fact that you seem to relish their barbarism is obscene.
     
  23. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

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    No this was a tough call under combat conditions, stop trying to make it what it isn't
     
  24. Reasonablerob

    Reasonablerob Well-Known Member

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    This is nothing to do with white supremacist mass murderers, no, the SAS guy is not a normal person he is an exceptional person to make it into this elite regiment, he made a tough judgement call and now you want to crucify him for it.
     
  25. HTownMarine

    HTownMarine Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Some of the Taliban are locals.

    The locals, for the most part, are not Taliban. Many are foreign fighters who cross the border with Pakistan.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020

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