China hints at denying Americans life-saving coronavirus drugs

Simple

A simple response can we afford having vital medical supplies, equipment and medicines made abroad not to mention things for our defense globalization fails when nations will withhold these for the good of their populations first.

 

You ask, "can we afford?" Believe me, it gives me great pain to repeat it but ...... business-military-industrial-politicians don't give a you-know-what about the population. So the answer to your question is, "Yes, those b'stards can afford it". It is they who decide, not you or I.

 

Our conversation started with you responding to my post dated four days earlier. Yet, you think that your the one determining the actual issue? Seems pretty arrogant to me. In my post, that you responded to, I said, "Not surprising since they blamed the US Army for the virus being released in China. Of course that is at least their third version of where the virus originated. First it was a person in the Wuhan open market. Then it was people eating skunks. Now, it is a US transport plane visited Wuhan, and released vials of covid-19."

You joined the conversation after it had been pointed out that the US Military that China was referring to had attended a war games conducted around, and I had explained how such a scenario was not plausible. You then chimed in that it was plausible, but offered no proof to support it. Further, you gave that insane list of questions as proof.

"An airborne disease is any disease that is caused by pathogens that can be transmitted through the air by both small, dry particles, and as larger liquid droplets[1]. Such diseases include many of considerable importance both in human and veterinary medicine. The relevant pathogens may be viruses, bacteria, or fungi, and they may be spread through breathing, talking, coughing, sneezing, raising of dust, spraying of liquids, toilet flushing or any activities which generates aerosol particles or droplets. Human airborne diseases do not include conditions caused by air pollution such as Volatile Organic Compounds (VOCs), gases and any airborne particles. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airborne_disease

"
Biological warfare (BW)—also known as germ warfare—is the use of biological toxins or infectious agents such as bacteria, viruses, insects, and fungi with the intent to kill or incapacitate humans, animals or plants as an act of war. Biological weapons (often termed "bio-weapons", "biological threat agents", or "bio-agents") are living organisms or replicating entities (viruses, which are not universally considered "alive"). Entomological (insect) warfare is a subtype of BW.

Biological warfare is distinct from nuclear warfare and chemical warfare, which together with biological warfare make up NBC, the military initialism for nuclear, biological, and chemical warfare using weapons of mass destruction (WMDs). None of these are considered conventional weapons, which are deployed primarily for their explosive, kinetic, or incendiary potential.

Biological weapons may be employed in various ways to gain a strategic or tactical advantage over the enemy, either by threats or by actual deployments. Like some chemical weapons, biological weapons may also be useful as area denial weapons. These agents may be lethal or non-lethal, and may be targeted against a single individual, a group of people, or even an entire population. They may be developed, acquired, stockpiled or deployed by nation states or by non-national groups. In the latter case, or if a nation-state uses it clandestinely, it may also be considered bioterrorism"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_warfare

Now, you are welcome to believe what you want, but I will stick to the facts.

If you truely believe that I have attributed something to you that you did not say, then please point it out. If I have done this, then I will apologize to you. But be specific. If you are claiming that I misinterpreted what you posted, then you should have chosen your words better.

I have addressed this before, and you have ignored the fact. Unless you have proof that the US has staged a Bioterrorism attack, (if you and China are right, then this would be a biological attack, not a chemical attack. But then I thought your extensive experience in the Military would have told you that.) Anything done in the past does not mean that the scenario that china has claimed, and you have supported is true.

Additionally, I did not claim that the US military would not put their personnel in harms way. I have gone into harms way many times. It is the nature of the job. My point was that the fact that none of those attending the war games have tested positive is proof that China is lying about how the disease got spread in Wuhan.

I realize that my post was too long for you, and hurt your eyes. I guess you could not get someone to read it to you. If you had made it to the end, you would have seen three questions that I requested you to respond to. You, as usual, ignored them. Here they are again:

1. How military personnel can disperse COVID-19, from vials, not wearing any protective equipment, and still not get exposed to the virus?

2. You claim that you have evidence of the US staging this type of attacks in the past. Okay, I am asking you to provide that evidence. But insure it is relevant, and backed by real sources. None of that revisionist history like your signature contains.

3. How can you support the claim that your/China's scenario is more logical then the one that I have presented?

BTW, I am not upset in the least. I am having a grand old time. You on the other hand come off as being preplexed at having to ignore so much of what is being said. So, if you are not too preplexed, and want to carry this conversation forward, then let's start by you answering those three questions.

 

So the bottom line is that you are aware that the U.S. has both the propensity and the record of using biological and nuclear weapons within the area of American troops and you were only joking or being sarcastic when you insinuated the U.S. would never do such a thing or commit American military to “harm's way” (as I think you called it). You just didn't like me saying say it and the smoke screen was just a spontaneous attempt at hiding it. Had you made that clear you would have avoided reading my fact-substantiated replies to prove it and I wouldn't have needed to have you return to your earlier lines and withdraw your personal insults.

Anyway, it's nice to see that it wasn't necessary for me to trot out those documents (that you may or may not have already seen) and that we've ended it on a good note.

 

Tossing a vile out the back of a speeding car/truck/train into traffic. Dropping it off of a bridge into heavy traffic. Placed into an air conditioner with a chemically activated device. Do you want me to continue giving more examples? I'm sure I can give you a million of them.

Agent Orange, Vietnam. "Operation Ranch Hand" and several more.

I have no idea what China has said.

 

Ooops, that was more truth than you can handle. Completely stifled, I see

 

And you have proof that our troops were seen doing any of these? Personally, I would not even handle a closed vial without special equipment. To make a claim of the US committing bioterrorism, you need actually evidence. China has offered none, and according to what you said below, you are arguing what you have no knowledge of. Pathetic.

Totally irrelevant. Unless you want to claim that the US released COVID-19 in an effort to kill off vegetation to rob our enemies of the foliage to hide behind. Because that was what they used Agent Orange for.

If you don't know what China said, then why post about it?

Now, you want to talk about too much truth? I noticed you ignored:
""An airborne disease is any disease that is caused by pathogens that can be transmitted through the air by both small, dry particles, and as larger liquid droplets[1]. Such diseases include many of considerable importance both in human and veterinary medicine. The relevant pathogens may be viruses, bacteria, or fungi, and they may be spread through breathing, talking, coughing, sneezing, raising of dust, spraying of liquids, toilet flushing or any activities which generates aerosol particles or droplets. Human airborne diseases do not include conditions caused by air pollution such as Volatile Organic Compounds (VOCs), gases and any airborne particles. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airborne_disease

"
Biological warfare (BW)—also known as germ warfare—is the use of biological toxins or infectious agents such as bacteria, viruses, insects, and fungi with the intent to kill or incapacitate humans, animals or plants as an act of war. Biological weapons (often termed "bio-weapons", "biological threat agents", or "bio-agents") are living organisms or replicating entities (viruses, which are not universally considered "alive"). Entomological (insect) warfare is a subtype of BW.

Biological warfare is distinct from nuclear warfare and chemical warfare, which together with biological warfare make up NBC, the military initialism for nuclear, biological, and chemical warfare using weapons of mass destruction (WMDs). None of these are considered conventional weapons, which are deployed primarily for their explosive, kinetic, or incendiary potential.

Biological weapons may be employed in various ways to gain a strategic or tactical advantage over the enemy, either by threats or by actual deployments. Like some chemical weapons, biological weapons may also be useful as area denial weapons. These agents may be lethal or non-lethal, and may be targeted against a single individual, a group of people, or even an entire population. They may be developed, acquired, stockpiled or deployed by nation states or by non-national groups. In the latter case, or if a nation-state uses it clandestinely, it may also be considered bioterrorism"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_warfare

Now, you are welcome to believe what you want, but I will stick to the facts."

 

Never mind your ad hoc chicanery. You asked me a direct question > > >

> > >

More back -peddling and cockamamy revision. You asked me a direct question > > >

> > >

You asked me a direct question > > >

> > >

You have been trying to bluff your way through a subject that you do not understand. You are playing with fire and you got burned really bad. If you want to play with the big boys be advised that unless you know what you are talking about you will get the horns where it hurts the most … just like now.

 

Cat got your tongue?

It is really very simple. You claimed the U.S. would never knowingly/intentionally put its soldiers "in harm's way". I disagree and I gave you absolutely, 100% proof, and an example that you were wrong. But I see that you are reluctant to admit your false information. OK. Here are a couple of more examples:

Bikini Island: 12 years from 1946 to 1958 nuclear testing with American military men intentionally used as guinea pigs.

Tuskeegee Experiment: 40 years From 1932 to 1972 the Veterans Administration Hospital intentionally infected American veterans with syphilis without administering any treatment.

1950's nuclear experimental explosions in Nevada by the U.S. Army "Operation Buster–Jangle" where soldiers were routinely and intentionally exposed to excessive radiation.

Agent Orange: 10 years from 1961 to 1971 Operation Operation Ranch Hand in Vietnam was used indiscriminately over both Vietnamese and American soldiers.

Edgewood Arsenal human experiments & Project MKULTRA: Nearly 30 years from 1948 to 1975 American military personal were clandestinely and intentionally subject to chemicals such as Mescaline, LSD, and various nerve agents unbeknownst to the subjects themselves.

1960 The Army Assistant Chief of Staff for Intelligence authorizes field testing of LSD in Europe and the Far East. Testing of the European population is code named Project THIRD CHANCE, testing of the Asian population is code named Project DERBY HAT.

* 1966 U.S. Army intentionally released the deadly Biological Agent Bacillus Subtilis bacteria throughout the New York City subway system. More than a million civilians were exposed when army scientists drop light bulbs filled with the bacteria onto ventilation grates.

1968 CIA experiments with the possibility of poisoning drinking water by injecting chemicals into the water supply of the FDA in Washington, D.C.

1969 Dr. Robert MacMahan of the Department of Defense requests from congress $10 million to develop, within 5 to 10 years, a synthetic biological agent to which no natural immunity exists.

1970 The United States intensifies its development of "ethnic weapons" designed to selectively target and eliminate specific ethnic groups who are susceptible due to genetic differences and variations in DNA.

The use of Depleted Uranium Weapons: The Gulf Wars I and II. Despite the blunt admonitions of pre-war U.S. Army reports, no warnings about the dangers of depleted uranium were provided to the U.S. and coalition forces expected to encounter DU contamination on Gulf War battlefields. Combatants and support personnel were not informed of the need to check soldiers' wounds for depleted uranium contamination, or told of the requirement to don full protective suits during contact with contaminated equipment and soil. In violation of operative U.S. Army and U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission regulations, no medical testing or follow-up was provided to soldiers who were wounded by depleted uranium fragments, or who may have inhaled or ingested DU dust.

Pay special attention to the line marked with an asterisk on their method of releasing the deadly substance. No wearing of any protective equipment, no "MOPP Suits", no "hazmat suits". What is your deflection for all of this?

 

Well said. I am impressed by your courage to stick your head out and speak the truth. A stupid thread like this that spreads fake news should have never allowed to be posted in any reputable forum. Given your courage and bravery, I am sure my best friend Meta777 has invited you for a personal chat. Perhaps it's time for her to come out here to discuss with us openly about the fake news in this stupid thread.

 

Well said. Isn't it a good idea to let a US military veteran tell us the secret?

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/...ng-army-games-hid-disease-in-us-as-influenza/

 

I'm simply voicing what ought to be an obvious possibility. I hadn't considered it courageous or brave until you mentioned it. Now you've got me worried.

I know that the standard quarantine for Coronavirus is 2 weeks which is thought to be the length needed to determine whether or not someone is infected. The red flag (for me) is when I read in your link where it states, “The US team went home on October 28, 2019, and within 2 weeks, the first human contact cases of COVID 19 were seen in Wuhan.”

 

Whether a human is brave or coward, he is quite likely to drop dead silently in his unexpected encounter with the lifeless minuscule virus.

Apocalypse will usher in not when the sky opens with the Angel of Death flying out to blow the last trumpet, or the Four Horsemen galloping out of the sky, but when mankind is killed silently one by one by the lifeless minuscule virus till they are gone forever like the dinosaurs.

 

Well, I am in the high-risk category (age) so if I suddenly disappear from the forum it's a fair bet I've been infected and didn't make it.

 

“Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - Mark Twain.

This is why this will be my last post to you. In order for your fake scenarios to be true, there would be evidence. Glass shards, photos/videos of US troops engaged in the activities that you described, or the dispersal mechanism in the AC system. If China had such evidence, they would have posted it all internet. The fact is such an event did not happen, and your backing their claim (especially since you admitted you did not know what they had claimed) it well (for lack of a better word) treasonous. So, let me tell you why all your claims below are irrelevant and, in some cases, outright lies, then you can have the last word.

Between the 1940's and 1960's we were still learning about warhead yields and fallout. These military and civilians were exposed because we did not know what was going to happen. Even as late as the late 50's tests, they did not know that a bomb's yields would be. So, they did not know how far back they would have to be that would be safe. So, these was not a deliberate situations. Therefore, not relevant to the claim that this was like the China claim.

A case of complete revisionist history. The Tuskegee Experiment was conducted by the Tuskegee University. The subjects were not veterans, they were 600 share croppers. They were not given Syphilis. 301 already had the disease. The other 299 were not infected, and were used as a control group. So, again totally irrelevant, and a cheap shot at fictionalization.

Again, Agent Orange was used as an defoliant. In other words, it was used to kill off all the foliage that the enemy was hiding behind. It was not being used as a chemical weapon. The fact is the England was the first country to use Agent Orange. They used it Malaysia back in the 1950's, and it was used as a herbicide in the US wheat production through the 1950's and 1960's. It is said that the DOD was informed that Agent Orange contained dioxin, but there is no record of it. So, this was not an intentional exposure to dangerous chemicals. Again, totally irrelevant.

​

Terrible, and it does prove your point that some in the military would put others in harms way for their experiments, but it is still not the same as ordering US troops to release Biological Agents without protective gear in a foreign country. So, as bad as this was, it is totally irrelevant to your claim that this proves that the US is the source of the Coronavirus.

Why were they not using hazmat or MOPP suites? Could it be that Bacillus Subtilis was not toxic to anyone that did not have a severely compromised immune system. BTW, Bacillus Subtilis is currently being used in probiotics. Again, not relevant.

Yes, the US tested Biological and Chemical weapons. They did this until they signed the Biological Weapons Convention. The US signed the document in 1993, and it went into effect in 1997. The US agreed not to use, manufacture, stockpile or test Bioweapons after that point. Now, I know you tin-foil hatters do not believe that the US would willingly violate that ban, but without proof, it is just a conspiracy theory.

There is questions about the safety of exposure to depleted uranium fragments or dust after the rounds have been used. There is a program that is monitoring the health complications from those exposed to these fragments and dust during the Gulf Wars. It should also be noted that the US also used DU ammo back in Vietnam. While the study is still ongoing. Current results of military members exposed to DU could also be suffering from Agent Orange exposure (Vietnam) or Desert Storm Syndrome. Desert Storm Syndrome is a multi-substance immunity disorder cause by a combination medication that we were required to take daily, and the bug juice that we used to keep the sand flees off of us. So, again, this exposure (if it is determined to have caused illness) was not intentional, and is totally irrelevant to your claim.

Now, you can have the last word.

 

1

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.” - Mark Twain
This is why I won't stand by idly watching you distort & deny the facts without correcting your false narrative.

Bull crappy. The U.S. government knew the danger as witnessed by the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Those American soldiers who were subjected to high radiation were treated as guinea pigs.

The Tuskegee Experiment was carried out by military doctors at VA Hospitals … and abroad. American veterans were diagnosed with syphilis but not told nor treated. The Tuskegee Experiment was also carried out abroad where subjects were intentionally injected with syphilis and (again) not told what was happening.

 

2

Agent Orange was spayed within American military areas with full knowledge of what the results would be. I was stationed in the Central Highlands 1966 – 1967 (where it was used) but fortunately my area of operations was further east and out of the range of Agent Orange.






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65KFpyxK0Ho

So you refuse to admit that chemical and biological substances can be administered without the use of protective clothing even after I have proved it to you. No surprise.

 

3

The effects of depleted uranium weapons are clear and obvious.



https://www.commondreams.org/views/2004/12/11/how-dangerous-depleted-uranium


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSd5Dvtlvi0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g1enwia25s
https://www.globalresearch.ca/deple...ive-contamination-in-iraq-an-overview/5605215
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/19/us-depleted-uranium-weapons-civilian-areas-iraq
https://ejatlas.org/conflict/sadr-city-radioactive-waste-iraq
https://www.al-fanarmedia.org/2019/...the-lingering-effects-of-radioactive-weapons/

You cut a very sad figure and have not accounted for yourself very well at all.